In this video, you see SVB break and I think he makes a stripe. Then, next shot, looks like he shoots the 14 into the 2 into the one, pocketing it. So, he has solids? The 2nd shot was legal, you can hit any non-8 ball into any other and pocket it as a called shot? And am I to assume this any-non-8-ball-can-be-the-object-ball applies only on the shot after the break? Amateur here, lol, just wanting to clarify. Obviously, it was legal in this game.
8 ball rule question
- Thread starter livemusic
- Start date
Yes. Table is open after the break in this format
I've never seen the logic of the rule that allows you to hit one suit to make the other when the table's open. Seems to me it should have the same requirements as any other legal shot - maybe even more importantly since it's the shot that determines the suits.
Bob, can you fix this, please?
pj
chgo
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Lol. You're kidding, right?
Since neither player has pocketed a called shot, any ball (except for then 8) is legal to hit first.
The old "take what you make" rule should be used in slop 8ball, where it's not neccessary to call a specific ball in a specific pocket.
Yeah, I get that's the reasoning - I just don't think it's sound. The called ball is the "on" suit for that shot - no reason hitting the "off" suit first should be allowed.
pj
chgo
Looks like we are ready for a good bar fight....
OP said, "first shot after the break". It is allowed until a ball is made legally. If Shane had scratched on that shot, the table would still be open.
Yes, you all know that, but it needs be said.
Yes, you all know that, but it needs be said.
PracticeChampion
Well-known member
Almost every tournament I play it is open after break no-matter what was made, use any ball to combo in either a solid or strip except you cannot hit the 8 first in the combination but one tournament I play is standard bca rules except they use "take what you make off break". I dislike that rule but it's their tournament so that's that.
Isnt the 8 ball neutral after the break in Valley league?
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I think it's about speeding the game up. It also adds an element of strategy as you can use it to break out (or make worse) clusters. I've played different ways, it's whatever, they all have merits.
Save yourself the hassle in bars anywhere now a days- just play Tex Express nine ball in a bar if you must gamble. Every bar local where you gamble when out of your home location or state will make up some"new rules" as the game goes on if you are winning. Eight ball rules are so ever changing in a bar situation that I won't bother if it has to be a money game.
All of a sudden if you brush another ball as your ball enters the pocket - it was not a called shot, OR , if you touched a rail going in to the pocket it was not a called bank shot- the list goes on and on - alcohol, gambling and bar 8 ball - only if that is what you really seek.
Sadly, I've forgotten where I left my magic wand. It hasn't been working all that well lately, anyhow.
I think it makes more sense to "provisionally adopt" a group before your shot when the table's open. The current way works OK and it's unlikely to be changed. I also think you ought to be able to hit the 8 first if the table is open under the current rule, but it's not that open.
You can hit any ball combo to decide your group when the table is open in VNEA.
There is no "on" suit after the break. All the balls are "off" suited/open/unclaimed or undesignated, and so either player may legally strike any ball first, no different than a break shot where any ball may be struck first because they are all open/unclaimed.
Calling a specific ball in a designated pocket secures that group of balls if the ball is pocketed. If not, every ball is still open and legal to strike first for the imcoming player, regardless of which ball is being called.
If you call a shot on the break, which no one would ever do, you can strike any ball in the rack first, because they're all open. But if you pocket the called ball in the designated pocket, you have now secured that group of balls, and from then on you must contact a ball from your group first on every shot.
When no one yet has a defined group or suit of balls, as with the break shot, all balls except the 8 are free and unclaimed.
I like it that way....makes more sense when playing a called pocket game where slop doesn't count. Forcing a player to take whatever group happens to slop in on the break only makes sense in a slop game where the players don't have to call their shots.
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It is in ACS tournaments. 8 ball can be used in first shot of a combination on an "open" table.
I like when your object ball brushes the rail going in and your opponent says "you didnt call that, that was a bank shot". Yet when playing bank the 8 they would not consider that a bank shot (maybe if they made that way they might consider it a bank but it definitely wont be considered a bank if I play it that way) They seem to want it both ways but it doesn't work like that.
Depends on the ruleset. Most rulesets for 8-ball are open after the break, so yes you can shoot one suit into another suit. Some rulesets like APA and most barroom rules is "take what you make." That said, the pros have played "take what you make," and I believe the 8-ball Series that Darren Appleton promoted was also "take what you make."
For pros, I would rather see them play "take what you make."
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For those who don't like "take what you make", I will point out Darren Appleton ran an international tournament series with that rule. It was to make the game tougher for the pro player and more enjoyable for the audience.
I believe he was spot on.
I believe he was spot on.
I think what Pat is saying is that since it is a call shot game (but not Call All the Details), and you must call the ball you are pocketing, then that would lead to the idea that you should be only hitting first the called ball's suit. Just like in snooker, you call a ball "ON," and you must then execute your shot with all the rules that apply to shooting that ball ON. Not that I agree with Pat on the direction the rules should go, but his reasoning is pretty sound.