8-Ball vs 9-ball

J

jjinfla

Banned
Which do you find easier?

I personally find 8-ball an easier game to WIN than 9-ball.

In 8-ball the other player has to beat me to win. Sure, I can lose by scratching on the 8 but that is rare.

In 9-ball there just are so many ways an inferior player can win. How many times has the 9 ball accidently been pocketed?

Getting out of line in 9-ball can be disasterous - in 8-ball you still can have several different options - just change the pattern. Can't do that in 9-ball.

In 9-ball you hang the 9 you are dead. In 8-ball you hang the 8 your opponent still has to make all his balls.

Just stating the obvious I guess.

Jake
 
I think a good 9ball player will run out most open 9ball racks where-as an 8ball player may struggle. 8ball can go against you the same way though. You do all the hard work, miss the black. Now the table is "really" easy to run for the opponent, 7 balls in any order, god thats a 9/10 runout for sure.
 
9Ball gets easier with every single stroke, at the end there is just 1 ball left on the table and tons of room to place the cueball.

8Ball can be very easy too with a hot break but from time to time there are tough racks in between where you have to get tricky positions.

Playing a safety is also way easier in 9Ball, since your opponent has only one ball to hit first.
This is the main difference imo.
8Ball appears to be a more offensive game - If you can´t play awesome safeties it´s like "run out or lose" :cool:
 
laser2507 said:
8ball can go against you the same way though. You do all the hard work, miss the black. Now the table is "really" easy to run for the opponent, 7 balls in any order, god thats a 9/10 runout for sure.
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That is the most difficult thing about 8 ball. Figuring out if you can run out or not. Know your limitations. You must not leave yourself in the position where the opponent is coming to the table wide open. If you decide to try to run out, even the smallest mistake can really cost you. If you decide you can't run out, making the best play to improve your position is critical. 8 ball is more of a 'thinking' game than 9 ball. This is not saying it is more difficult just completely different.
 
Eightball is my game all i play, i do play nineball here and there but not as much as i should play it. So i find eightball to be easier for me as i use to play bank the eightball in last pocket now that was tough but with good strategy its easier to win, why i think nineball is harder for me is cause i don't play it often, this and being consistent on the break shot and getting shape on the lowest number ball, position play isn't tough at all. But i dont like the luck envolved in nineball as to eightball, as you can win an easy game with a combo or kiss shot etc... But you can blow the nine and loss of game for you but same goes for eightball, run the rack and blow the eight and leave a wide open table. But yes you shouldn't take that chance in eightball this is why if i have clusters or such i pluck off balls here and there but i play safes, leaving my opponent to break them up or leave me the Wide Open table. But both games i find easy when i get a good break, with no clusters, and have shape on the lowest number ball or have an easy shot to start out with as in eightball. As long as stay in line That Is LOL.
 
My .02 cents

I have worked on a standard rating system that can be used to rate a player in 8 or 9 ball (once rated, it can be converted to equivalent BCA, VNEA, or APA averages for tournament ratings based on a league average).

It is based on a 10 ball average (as in bowliards, with 300 being the max rating). I had to assign a difficulty factor to 8 ball and 9 ball, as to how much MORE DIFFICULT they were than playing 10 ball, or bowliards.
Although, my difficulty ratings are purely subjective, based on 44 years of experience, I assigned a difficulty factor for 9 ball of 12%. amd 15% fo 8 ball.

My reasons behind these ratings is based on some factors that I consider to be true, for instance, when you learn cue ball control, 9 ball becomes easier than 8 ball. 8 ball involves more decision making, and variety of shots, plus the complexities of dealing with clusters and breal out shots.
Safeties are more complex in 8 ball also. The openness of 8 ball in being able to shoot any stripe or solid offsets some of the complexities of 8 ball.

An example of how my system works would be if a good A player scored 240 average in 10 ball, and you wanted a BCA 8 ball average for a 5 man team, whose maximum score is 75, you take 300/75 = 4, then 240/4=60, then take 60 * 15% difficulty factor for 8 ball over 10 ball = 9, then take 60 - 9 = 51 equivalent BCA average for player A.

So player A that had a 240 10 ball average could be converted to an equivalent 51 BCA 5 man team average, and use the 51 for whatever purpose it was needed for, starting league average or in local tournaments.

To get the 9 ball average for the same player would be 240/4 (maximum score in 9 ball scoring) = 75, then 240 / 75 = 3.2, then 3.2 * 12% (difficulty factor for 9 ball) = .384, then 3.2 - .384 = 2.816 = 2.8 Final 9 ball average for player A.

I have given this considerable thought and effort into developing a standard system that can be used for the major league averages in 8 and 9 ball. I think it is pretty accurate, but might need just a little fine tuning.
 
snapshot9 said:
when you learn cue ball control, 9 ball becomes easier than 8 ball. 8 ball involves more decision making, and variety of shots, plus the complexities of dealing with clusters and breal out shots.
Safeties are more complex in 8 ball also. The openness of 8 ball in being able to shoot any stripe or solid offsets some of the complexities of 8 ball.
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I like that, i think the same way as this is what i meant or trying to say in my first post LOL.
 
I have mainly played 8 ball, but play a few 9 ball tournaments too. My preferance is 8 ball. I just don't like a game where I make 8 balls and my apponent makes 1 and wins, just doesn't seem fair.
Chris
 
I converted from thinking 8 ball is just as tough a game as 9 ball to thinking the latter is a bit more difficult... But I'm on the verge of converting again, since I think what's considered "difficult/easier" has to be DEFINED first, before I would be able to give an opinion.

I enjoy both games tremedously, and I became more interested in discussing the difference in *skill sets* the disciplines require, rather than "difficulty", which is a very muddled concept.

That being said, if we define "difficulty" as run out percentages, than I'd say AT LEAST half the difficulty in the game of 9 ball is getting a legitimate shot on the lowest numbered ball after the break. Were 9 ball players guaranteed a first shot in rotation order after the break, I'd venture to say run out percentages would be slightly greater in 9 ball than 8 ball simply because of clustering.

As for the luck issue, I'd say both 8 and 9 ball possess an equal amount of luck involved. Slop, as revolting as it may be, is actually not as common as *strategic and tactical* luck when you're totally f***** after your opponent misses his shot a mile. You want a FAIR game, look no further than straight pool.
 
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A local room holds a handicap weekly tournament. Each round is one game of either 8 or 9 ball. Winner of the lag chooses the game. Seems like the higher ranked players will choose 8 ball, while the lower ranked players, especially when matched up against a stronger player, will choose 9 ball. I think that trend might offer an answer to the original question.
Steve
 
I love both 8 and 9. In 8 Ball the thing that drives me nuts is, if I don't make any balls on the break. It just drives me nuts to give up a wide open table. I don't feel as bad after watching an IPT show on TV and see the same thing happen to all the top players. Also we play allot of "Team" 8 Ball and I hate when my partner moves the balls around and gets them is bad spots or tied up, then when it is my turn I have Nothing to shoot at.:mad:
 
I think both are decent games in their respective realms, 8-ball, in my mind, fits more into the strategic realm while 9-ball fits more into the precision realm. That's not to say that 8-ball doesn't require precision, or that 9-ball doesn't require strategy, but each game has a particular emphasis, and it is for that reason that I don't consider either one of these games to be complete tests of skill. The best games, in my opinion, are the ones that straddle both realms, games like 14.1, one-pocket, and 15 ball rotation; if you want to pick one or two games to excel at, you should probably pick from these. For practice, 15 ball rotation and one-pocket are about the only games I play. That being said...

8-ball is a good game because it forces you to develop a plan before you shoot the first ball, and you're confronted with many other decisions throughout the game. One bad choice can find you halfway through your runout with no shot, and it's almost impossible to play defense at that point because your opponent has up to 7 potential targets to shoot at. I also like 8-ball becuase you have a lot of traffic on the table, and you therefore have to learn to deal with clusters. The things I don't like about 8-ball are: a) at higher levels you don't see a lot of defense after the first couple of shots; each player waits for his/her opening, and then it's full-bore offense b) you usually have multiple targets, which means that you are not always punished for playing position errors; you may be able to simply change strategies and shoot a different ball.

9-ball is a good game because it forces you to get precise with your cueball placement. There is always only 1 ball on the table that you can legally hit, and there's always only 1 ball you can shoot for your next shot. This puts a premium on not only giving yourself a shot on the "on ball", but also on giving yourself the proper angle to get to the next ball in sequence. This also makes 9-ball a great game for learning defense. It's much easier to snooker your opponent when he/she only has 1 ball to shoot at vs. 7. The things I do not like about 9-ball are: a) you are not punished as severly for using a poor strategy at the beginning of the game, meaning that you can run half the balls off the table and still play an effective safety; as a result, many 9-ball players do not think far enough ahead. b) there is not enough traffic on the table, and therefore people who play strictly 9-ball may not become as effective at breaking out clusters and working in tight spaces. c) 9-ball is not usually played as a call-shot game, and I believe it should be.

Both are good games, but I think they should be viewed as stepping stones to higher disciplines.

Good luck!
 
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This debate comes up about once every month or so and every time, I'll answer the same way. With nine ball, your options are limited. You must strike one specific ball first making your number of different out-patterns limited. In 8 ball, you can look to any ball as your first ball every time you step to the table making the number of out patterns and possibilities exponentially greater.

8 ball is far easier and the reason I say this is because of a) the reasons listed above and b) I can string two or three 8 ball racks together with FAR greater frequency than I can in 9 ball.
 
jjinfla said:
Which do you find easier?
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I often wonder how many times this question has to be asked in a year. Twelve sounds about right.

Neither is harder or easier. Each has easier aspects than the other. That's why the two games are different. Depending on the strengths of the individual player, those strengths will dictate individually which is the "easier" of the two games.

Fred
 
Cornerman said:
I often wonder how many times this question has to be asked in a year. Twelve sounds about right.

Neither is harder or easier. Each has easier aspects than the other. That's why the two games are different. Depending on the strengths of the individual player, those strengths will dictate individually which is the "easier" of the two games.

Fred
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What game the player most often plays as you've also stated in a much earlier thread.
 
For me, the key point is as follows:

I know a good number of middle-of-the-road 8-ball players who don't stand a chance at running a 9-ball rack... yet they occasionally will run the table in 8-ball.

I have yet to run into any players where the opposite is true.

And the reason is... 8-ball (only) players never learn two and three rail positions because they're rarely required in 8-ball.

Without such knowledge, an 8-ball (only) player doesn't stand much of a chance against a moderately experienced 9-ball player.
 
cigardave said:
For me, the key point is as follows:

I know a good number of middle-of-the-road 8-ball players who don't stand a chance at running a 9-ball rack... yet they occasionally will run the table in 8-ball.

I have yet to run into any players where the opposite is true.

And the reason is... 8-ball (only) players never learn two and three rail positions because they're rarely required in 8-ball.

Without such knowledge, an 8-ball (only) player doesn't stand much of a chance against a moderately experienced 9-ball player.
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I have come across players that usually only play 9 ball who don't understand how to go about picking a pattern. When they play 8 ball, they tend to leave themselves a tough shot and realize safety play is much more difficult in eight ball. At that point, they either play an ineffective safety, or miss their tough shot, either of which gives control of the table to their opponent.

As Cornerman stated, it depends on the skills of the individuals playing.

Personally, I prefer the eight ball because there is more strategy involved, and luck plays a smaller role (APA 8 ball notwithstanding).
 
Pattern play is the key in both games, 8 ball be more so than 9. Even though a ball may have an obvious pocket in 9 ball, sometime it helps the run to go for a different pocket. The better pattern player will have the advantage in 8 unless he cant play postion (which is a downfall of alot of 8 ball players I have seen) Picking the right shot means nothing if you cant get the cueball where you need it to make the shot and get on the next ball...... you can only change your pattern so many times in 8 ball before you run out of options.
Alot of 9 ball players on the other hand can be great at postion play, but if you give them a decision to make other than pocket/safe sometimes they lose it.
Thats why people who are proficient at straight pool seem to excel in other games, because it causes you to find the best pattern, AND you have to be able to work the cueball well to be good at the game.
Just my 2 cents.
Chuck
 
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