9-Ball needs to be fixed

[DieselPete]

Honestly, after reading the thread, I've arrived at these opinions:

1) Nine ball is not "broken." It is a game with its own peculiarities and we can play other games if we prefer.

2) If we believe that the break has become too controllable (it is really a one-ball carom in the side shot), then a simple solution is alternate break (already used in many tournaments), which emulates the alternating serve in tennis. On your break you want to "hold serve" and "breaking" someone else's serve (their break) is a big deal.

3) If we believe we need more "randomization" in the balls, we should use a traditional rack. The templates are simply too good at doing what they are designed to do.

4) Most of the more radical suggestions to change the game will make the game no longer the game as we know it, or make the game worse to play and watch. Again, these are my opinions.

 

[sudocrushms]

Honestly, after reading the thread, I've arrived at these opinions:

1) Nine ball is not "broken." It is a game with its own peculiarities and we can play other games if we prefer.

2) If we believe that the break has become too controllable (it is really a one-ball carom in the side shot), then a simple solution is alternate break (already used in many tournaments), which emulates the alternating serve in tennis. On your break you want to "hold serve" and "breaking" someone else's serve (their break) is a big deal.

3) If we believe we need more "randomization" in the balls, we should use a traditional rack. The templates are simply too good at doing what they are designed to do.

4) Most of the more radical suggestions to change the game will make the game no longer the game as we know it, or make the game worse to play and watch. Again, these are my opinions.

One break format i've liked is the WPBA alternating every 2 breaks (only issue being keeping track). Or the Predator best of 3 sets (i know it's 10b, so best of 3 races to 5 would i think be analogous).

 

[RakRunr]

9-ball is my least favorite popular game. I enjoyed it more before Texas Express became the norm. If you are old enough, you will remember when it was the new variation and a lot of old timers then didn't like the changes. My point is the game continues to evolve and so be it.

I have several issues with 9-ball, but the top complaint has always been that 9 on the break should not win the game. [I feel the same way about 8-ball as no game should be won or lost on the break.] More recently with the advent of template racks, making 2-3 balls on the break is common, so 9-ball quickly becomes 6 or 7-ball. I fully acknowledge that breaking is a skill, but today it feels like a good break is an outsized advantage.

One idea I've had that would address both of these is to simply spot all balls made on the break. No other changes would be necessary as it would effectively negate the advantage of template racks. I am usually an advocate for alternate breaks but I think with this format I would support winner break.

 

[Swighey]

Hell, I thought 9 ball and 10 ball the difference was right in the name

The name refers to the number of object balls and they are indeed different. You are 100% correct. Differentiating one game from the other is a different thing though.

 

[Swighey]

but the top complaint has always been that 9 on the break should not win the game. [I feel the same way about 8-ball as no game should be won or lost on the break.]

In 8 Ball, you need to pot your set before you pot the 8 Ball. In 9 Ball the object is to pot the 9 Ball any which legal way you can.

 

[RakRunr]

In 8 Ball, you need to pot your set before you pot the 8 Ball. In 9 Ball the object is to pot the 9 Ball any which legal way you can.

I agree this is the spirit of 8-ball, but historically there have been many times where making the 8 on the break wins and making the 8 on the break and scratching loses. I think this was driven by coin-operated bar tables where you could not retrieve a ball to spot it. I know CSI rules now have addressed this but I'm not sure about other rulesets.

I understand your point about 9-ball, it's just never sat well with me because it doesn't feel like you actually played a game.

 

[Swighey]

I agree this is the spirit of 8-ball, but historically there have been many times where making the 8 on the break wins and making the 8 on the break and scratching loses. I think this was driven by coin-operated bar tables where you could not retrieve a ball to spot it. I know CSI rules now have addressed this but I'm not sure about other rulesets.

I understand your point about 9-ball, it's just never sat well with me because it doesn't feel like you actually played a game.

Yeh I totally get the coin op driven 8 ball on the break wins rule as one of the ways out for bar pool. There are other ways but they have no impact on the game when it's not on a coin op table.

Your second paragraph makes no sense whatsoever regardless of which lens I look at it through. Is there a typo in there somewhere or are you a colossal clown?

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Your second paragraph makes no sense whatsoever regardless of which lens I look at it through. Is there a typo in there somewhere or are you a colossal clown?

I read his sentence very differently than you did. Try substituting "one" for "you" and see if it reads better for you.

 

[Swighey]

I read his sentence very differently than you did. Try substituting "one" for "you" and see if it reads better for you.

One would read pretty much the same as you in this instance.

 

[AtLarge]

... with the advent of template racks, making 2-3 balls on the break is common ...

Making 2 balls on the break is fairly common, but not 3. I looked at the matches I tracked for a bunch of Matchroom-produced events in 2025 and 2026 (Matchroom break box and 4" corner pockets) and, in aggregate, 2 balls were made on the break about 20% of the time and 3 or more balls about 2% of the time.

 

[garczar]

Making 2 balls on the break is fairly common, but not 3. I looked at the matches I tracked for a bunch of Matchroom-produced events in 2025 and 2026 (Matchroom break box and 4" corner pockets) and, in aggregate, 2 balls were made on the break about 20% of the time and 3 or more balls about 2% of the time.

only place three are common is on a barbox.

 

[Matt_H]

I don't think the game is broken. More of a case that, visually and format-wise, there is barely difference between one MR comp to the next and the whole tv/stream presentation feels copy-n-paste and is just dull. PBS and Ultimate Pool are starting to fall into the same trap. Its always one of SVB, Shaw, Gorst or Filler until they're all eliminated. If it wasn't for the location stated in the stream description I wouldn't know if I was watching the Florida or Arizona Open. I only know the comp is taking place in UAE, Dubai or Saudi because there's no bugger in the audience.

On the table, the game is great. If it doesn't take off to the level we hope then so be it, then its just our dirty little secret. But we can't keep mucking about by changing rules. It's better production and varied formats that the game needs.

 

[garczar]

I don't think the game is broken. More of a case that, visually and format-wise, there is barely difference between one MR comp to the next and the whole tv/stream presentation feels copy-n-paste and is just dull. PBS and Ultimate Pool are starting to fall into the same trap. Its always one of SVB, Shaw, Gorst or Filler until they're all eliminated. If it wasn't for the location stated in the stream description I wouldn't know if I was watching the Florida or Arizona Open. I only know the comp is taking place in UAE, Dubai or Saudi because there's no bugger in the audience.

On the table, the game is great. If it doesn't take off to the level we hope then so be it, then its just our dirty little secret. But we can't keep mucking about by changing rules. It's better production and varied formats that the game needs.

I tend to agree but you gotta remember one thing: its POOL we're talking about. IMO no format/production change is going to make it any more watchable/exciting. It is what it is.

 

[Lowell]

I don't think the game is broken. More of a case that, visually and format-wise, there is barely difference between one MR comp to the next and the whole tv/stream presentation feels copy-n-paste and is just dull. PBS and Ultimate Pool are starting to fall into the same trap. Its always one of SVB, Shaw, Gorst or Filler until they're all eliminated. If it wasn't for the location stated in the stream description I wouldn't know if I was watching the Florida or Arizona Open. I only know the comp is taking place in UAE, Dubai or Saudi because there's no bugger in the audience.

On the table, the game is great. If it doesn't take off to the level we hope then so be it, then its just our dirty little secret. But we can't keep mucking about by changing rules. It's better production and varied formats that the game needs.

Recent PBS winners include Ko Ping Chung, Aloysius Yapp, and now Felix Vogel. There's actually a lot of parity.

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

I don't think the game is broken. More of a case that, visually and format-wise, there is barely difference between one MR comp to the next and the whole tv/stream presentation feels copy-n-paste and is just dull. PBS and Ultimate Pool are starting to fall into the same trap. Its always one of SVB, Shaw, Gorst or Filler until they're all eliminated. If it wasn't for the location stated in the stream description I wouldn't know if I was watching the Florida or Arizona Open. I only know the comp is taking place in UAE, Dubai or Saudi because there's no bugger in the audience.

On the table, the game is great. If it doesn't take off to the level we hope then so be it, then its just our dirty little secret. But we can't keep mucking about by changing rules. It's better production and varied formats that the game needs.

Well stated. (Because I agree)

 

[SlopCounts]

I think 9-ball, especially with a template rack, is too easy for the pros. In this modern era of high-end equipment, playing 9-ball is like "tee-ing off from the ladies tees." It's literally the new 7-ball from last century.
10-ball, on the other hand, is much more entertaining to play and watch imo, especially when using a regular rack. The games are much more random and unpredictable, and the players have to strategize, kick, jump, and play safeties more.
10-ball is my game of choice when it comes to entertainment value and showcasing full cue talent.

 

[RakRunr]

Yeh I totally get the coin op driven 8 ball on the break wins rule as one of the ways out for bar pool. There are other ways but they have no impact on the game when it's not on a coin op table.

Your second paragraph makes no sense whatsoever regardless of which lens I look at it through. Is there a typo in there somewhere or are you a colossal clown?

I must be a clown because I don't understand your confusion.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I tend to agree but you gotta remember one thing: its POOL we're talking about. IMO no format/production change is going to make it any more watchable/exciting. It is what it is.

Shot clock?

 

[SlopCounts]

Shot clock?

We have that.
The problem with 9-ball imo is that the path to run out is easier to get on than in more interesting games, like 10-ball for example. 10-ball is more likely to: have dry breaks, no easy first shot, clusters after the break, and have more balls in play that could potentially narrow the window for playing shape or getting hooked.
You're a professor. 10-ball introduces more variables, hence, more challenges, difficulty, and entertainment value for the spectators.
I'm a solid player. I can say without a doubt that 9 ball is easier to break and run than 10 ball.

 

[maha]

4) Most of the more radical suggestions to change the game will make the game no longer the game as we know it, or make the game worse to play and watch. Again, these are my opinions.

the game as you know it has changed dramatically from as i know it, and many other older players.
and most of those liked it better that way.