9 Ball push out Question

cmsmith9 said:
If Phil C put in his book that there was a high percentage of games lost because of not pushing out, then he would encourage pushing out. Based off the statistics I read, he discourages it.
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How would Phil C know when a player "chooses not to push out"? It isn't enough to show that a certain choice has consequences - you have to show that the alternative is better.

pj
chgo
 
LSU1018 said:
I play at Bayou Billiards most of the time. No I wasn't playing when all the action was at Lambert's. I have heard plenty of stories about it, wish it was still like that. Lambert's has definitely went downhill. Where does your nephew play?
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I think he plays mostly at Ricochets and some at Bayou....Yep.... after Lambert passed away we managed Lambert's for about 8 months or so but Dot was wanting to change the 'gameplan' so we made an exit. We wanted to focus on pool and food and she wanted to focus on bands, etc... so we parted ways. At that time, the "twins" were still bartending....

Who owns Bayou now that Flyboy is out of the picture? I haven't been down there since then.
 
Tennesseejoe said:
If you pocket a ball during a push out it is respotted.
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Incorrect. Only the nine ball is spotted. Everything else stays down.

BTW, just to be clear, the way I understand the rules on a pushout is that while you may hit the lowest numbered ball first and then pocket it or another ball, you do not automatically keep your turn. If you declared a push-out then your opponent still has the option of taking or giving back the table.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I'll bet more of them would have lost if they didn't push out.

pj
chgo
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I have mixed feelings on pushing out. Lately I have been playing alot on bar tables. It seems alot of times I am better off trying to kick safe as opposed to rolling out. You have to really pick a good spot to roll out to on a bar table. One thing that really makes me not want to push out most of the time is I just hate giving my opponent options. If I do choose to roll out I will often tie up another ball on the table to increase my odds of getting to shoot again. One guy I play alot jumps the ball very well and will push out to jump shots, works out for him quite a bit. I just feel that percentage wise, there are usually better options available than to just rolling out and letting my opponent see the ball.
 
I just feel that percentage wise, there are usually better options available than to just rolling out and letting my opponent see the ball.
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Nobody likes voluntarily giving up the table, so I'm sure most of us feel the same way about pushing out. At best a pushout gives you a 50/50 chance of getting back to the table with a better shot than you had before. So it should only be used when you're faced with less than even odds of succeeding - in other words, when it might actually improve your chances. If you have to pushout, then you're already in doo doo; the only question is how deep?

pj
chgo
 
I think he plays mostly at Ricochets and some at Bayou....Yep.... after Lambert passed away we managed Lambert's for about 8 months or so but Dot was wanting to change the 'gameplan' so we made an exit. We wanted to focus on pool and food and she wanted to focus on bands, etc... so we parted ways. At that time, the "twins" were still bartending....

Who owns Bayou now that Flyboy is out of the picture? I haven't been down there since then.
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Jeff Padilla has owned Bayou for the last couple of years. The tables are okay over there. It's all diamonds but they don't keep them up like they should, but it's still better than playing on those huge pockets at clicks or ricochet in my opinion.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
How would Phil C know when a player "chooses not to push out"? It isn't enough to show that a certain choice has consequences - you have to show that the alternative is better.

pj
chgo
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You're right, he doesn't know when a player chooses not to push out. I guess I assume that since he is an authority figure on the game that he's done his research and can determine what layout should or shouldn't be pushed out. So when he wrote that 70% of pushers lose, then 30% who chose to not push, win. Based on those stats, I put more thought into the decision whether to not push and whether to take a calculated swing.

I am just saying based off what I read, pushing out isn't in favor of the pusher. It also depends on who the two players are and their capabilities. Like the last poster says, I can push out to a kick shot that I can make, but maybe my opponent has a jump cue, or is a better kicker.

Christian
 
I think the biggest factor is who you are playing and knowing your opponent. If you know his weakness is a long shot, you may try to leave him at the other end of the table, if you think you are a better banker leave him a bank.


That is an interesting stat but I definitely won't put any weight on that b/c if I am only a 50% chance of hitting the object ball, I will push. I wonder what the stat is if you give your opponent ball in hand off the first shot.
 
cmsmith9 said:
You're right, he doesn't know when a player chooses not to push out.

I guess I assume that since he is an authority figure on the game that he's done his research and can determine what layout should or shouldn't be pushed out.

So when he wrote that 70% of pushers lose, then 30% who chose to not push, win. Based on those stats, I put more thought into the decision whether to not push and whether to take a calculated swing.

I am just saying based off what I read, pushing out isn't in favor of the pusher. It also depends on who the two players are and their capabilities. Like the last poster says, I can push out to a kick shot that I can make, but maybe my opponent has a jump cue, or is a better kicker.

Christian
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"authority figure", I thought he was an "author". That's a big jump....SPF=randyg
 
Scott Lee said:
tap, tap, tap! :lmao::lol:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Let's not gang up now, just bringing up something I read, and from experience see many push outs that fail.

If he's considered to have written some of the best books on the game, and is only an author, he must have researched the subject with professionals. So if the "author" used Scott and Randy as references, does it validate what he wrote?

Christian
 
cmsmith9 said:
Let's not gang up now, just bringing up something I read, and from experience see many push outs that fail.

If he's considered to have written some of the best books on the game, and is only an author, he must have researched the subject with professionals. So if the "author" used Scott and Randy as references, does it validate what he wrote?

Christian
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Of course....:-)

I like Phil's books. I just always cring with those "titles". Being one dosen't always make you another. There's a World of difference between an Instructor, Author, Engineer and U S Open Champion....SPF=randyg
 
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