9 Ball Question

[Drew]

Those rules are much better. That WPA+ rule set should be THE 10ball rules.

BTW: That is far enough away from 9ball that there won't be any more confusion. Texas Express 10ball would disappear.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Those rules are much better. That WPA+ rule set should be THE 10ball rules.

BTW: That is far enough away from 9ball that there won't be any more confusion. Texas Express 10ball would disappear.

And that there is the one difference. Some pros, including the ABP, prefer the "+" rules even at the expense of the two-way shot.

The weird thing about the WPA rules is that there never is a reason to actually call a safety, except as a courtesy to your opponent in the regard that you are notifying him in advance that if a ball falls you will not claim you were attempting it.

The WPA+ rules make more sense in this regard. There is a reason to call a safety under these rules because it protects you from perhaps having to shoot again.

 

[Drew]

And that there is the one difference. Some pros, including the ABP, prefer the "+" rules even at the expense of the two-way shot.

The weird thing about the WPA rules is that there never is a reason to actually call a safety, except as a courtesy to your opponent in the regard that you are notifying him in advance that if a ball falls you will not claim you were attempting it.

The WPA+ rules make more sense in this regard. There is a reason to call a safety under these rules because it protects you from perhaps having to shoot again.

That's what I'm saying. If you prefer playing the 2 ways and all the luck that is involved with it, then 9ball is your game. If you want to eliminate all the luck, then wpa+ seems to be the way to do it. There seems to be no reason for the standard wpa rules to exist.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

Not necessarily true under World Standardized (WPA) rules. The option to give it back only applies if a ball falls on a miss.

I thought that was what the other guy meant. Two way safety shots happen all the time. I know they suck but I accept that as part of the game. Matter of fact I will shoot a two way shot all day if it is available.

 

[sjm]

A friend of mine is planning on having a 9 ball tournament this weekend, the thing is none of these people ever play 9 ball. The races are only going to 3, and he is planning on having everything with a good hit count with no called pockets even on the 9, so it counts on the break. Isn't this just too much luck involved, shouldn't the 9 ball at least be called. He said it would be BCA rules, but it sounds like a bang fest to me.

Same rules as at the Derby City Classic nine ball event, except a shorter race. No doubt, you'll be advising Mr Van Boening that his victory is now deemed tainted on account of the use of rules that randomize the results.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I thought that was what the other guy meant. Two way safety shots happen all the time. I know they suck but I accept that as part of the game. Matter of fact I will shoot a two way shot all day if it is available.

All I was saying is the slopped safety is not addressed in the WPA rules because the incoming player only has the option of giving it back if a ball falls. If you miss a shot and don't make a ball, you can still slop-safety your opponent.

I don't consider a deliberate 2 way shot to be a slopped-safety. One is planned the other is by accident. Drew mentioned he likes the two way shot but has a problem with the slopped safety in 10 Ball. I can understand that, he's not alone. The problem is the only way to get rid of the slopped-safety is to also eliminate the two way shot, as they have done with the WPA+ rules. If you want the two way shot in the game then you have to accept the possibility that the slopped-safety can occur.

 

[sjm]

I don't consider a deliberate 2 way shot to be a slopped-safety. One is planned the other is by accident. Drew mentioned he likes the two way shot but has a problem with the slopped safety in 10 Ball. I can understand that, he's not alone. The problem is the only way to get rid of the slopped-safety is to also eliminate the two way shot, as they have done with the WPA+ rules. If you want the two way shot in the game then you have to accept the possibility that the slopped-safety can occur.

Right on.

Asking world class players to forego playing two way shots, the most creative shots in all of rotation pool, is like asking Tour De France cyclists to compete on tricycles.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

The reason for switching to 10-ball was not because of calling pockets or anything associated with it.

It was done simply because of problems with the 9-ball break.

Others here would try to trick you into some other reasons, but they don't know what they're talking about.

Who are you referring to when you when say the reason for switching to 10 Ball was just because of the problems with the 9 Ball break - professional players, the WPA, BCA, the BCAPL...?

Thanks.

 

[Donny Lutz]

Call 9-ball

Drew:

There have been several threads in the past that talked about the rules of 10-ball, concerning call-shot / call-safety.

The net-net is this: there are the WPA rules (they are the foundation ruleset), and then you have those tours that decided to "shore up" the rules just as you are indicating. Those rules are called the "WPA+" rules (notice the "+").

Here's the difference:

WPA rules for 10-ball:
+ Call-shot, call-safety
+ If a player misses the called shot, as long as no ball was pocketed in the attempt, the opponent *has* to accept the table as-is. If a ball *was* pocketed in the attempt (e.g. wrong ball, or wrong pocket), the opponent has option.
+ If the player called a safety instead, as long as no other ball was pocketed, the opponent has to accept the table as-is. If a ball *was* pocketed in the safety attempt, the opponent has option.

WPA+ rules:
+ Call-shot, call-safety (just like WPA rules), but this one difference:
+ If a player misses their called shot -- no matter if a ball was pocketed in the process or not -- the opponent has option.

Here's a snippet from the Predator Pro-Am tour, the rules of which SBE has been following in the Open 10-ball event:

http://predatorproamtour.com/rules.asp

2011 Open/Pro Rules

7. Call Shot/Safety:

Call Shot:
Players have the option of either calling their shot or calling a safety. Aside from obvious shots, the shooter must specify which ball and which pocket is being called. If a player is shooting a bank, combination or any kind of ambiguous shot, the player must call the shot.

If a player calls a shot and misses, the incoming player will have the option to shoot or make his opponent shoot again. No matter how many times a player misses a called shot, failure to pocket that ball legally or wrongfully pocketing the ball in another pocket allows the opposing player the option to shoot or make his opponent shoot again.

Call Safety:
If a player calls a safety, the incoming player does not have the option to make his opponent shoot again. The only exception is when a player calls safe and pockets a ball. If a player calls safe, legally hits the object ball and thereafter pockets any ball in their safety attempt, the opposing player has the option to shoot or make their opponent shoot again.
​

I hope that helps clear it up,
-Sean

When I began playing in 1955, the good players tended to play by rules that I believe were those above. The beginners played slop. The same for 8-ball. I agree with Buddy Hall and many of the other old-timers: All games should be call pocket.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor

 

[sjm]

If a player calls a shot and misses, the incoming player will have the option to shoot or make his opponent shoot again. No matter how many times a player misses a called shot, failure to pocket that ball legally or wrongfully pocketing the ball in another pocket allows the opposing player the option to shoot or make his opponent shoot again.

This use of this rule, which thoroughly dumbs down the game by largely removing the two way shot, and also makes the game completely unrecognizable to nearly every league player on the planet, may be the beginning of the end for rotational pool.

Just another rreason why the casual player will continue to neither know nor care what's going ion men's pro pool.

 

[sfleinen]

This use of this rule, which thoroughly dumbs down the game by largely removing the two way shot, and also makes the game completely unrecognizable to nearly every league player on the planet, may be the beginning of the end for rotational pool.

Just another rreason why the casual player will continue to neither know nor care what's going ion men's pro pool.

Stu:

No matter whether you agree or disagree with content, I have a personal request -- please be careful with the quoting. That part you quoted, is not my text, nor did I have anything to do with the authoring of it. That is from the Predator ProAm Tour website, not from me.

You are obviously free to disagree all you want with the WPA+ rules. Just be careful of the context in which you quote.

Just a friendly request,
-Sean

 

[sjm]

Stu:

No matter whether you agree or disagree with content, I have a personal request -- please be careful with the quoting. That part you quoted, is not my text, nor did I have anything to do with the authoring of it. That is from the Predator ProAm Tour website, not from me.

You are obviously free to disagree all you want with the WPA+ rules. Just be careful of the context in which you quote.

Just a friendly request,
-Sean

Sorry, Sean, will try not to repeat this mistake. Yes, I was reacting to what you cited, not to your opinion. This distinction, I have to admit, is not something that I've paid sufficient attention to in the past on AZB, so thanks for sensitizing me to this issue.

Hope all's well with you.