9 Ball Rankings

[MBTaylor]

Doesnt hold water. If I were to play a barbox 6 on my 9' shimed, he'd get tore up.

Ability does not change with equipment???. It takes less ability to pocket balls on a smaller table with bigger pockets and more ability to pot balls on a larger table with smaller pockets. It changes completely. Like saying that playing at augusta national is the same as playing your local municipal course... Your swing is no different right?? But the course is.



Dont know what you mean with that statement? I cant speak for your area, or anyone else's but we have 10 9ball teams that play in our division here in Tampa. We play ZERO matches on boxes during the year. Every team's host location has 9' footers only.

An overwhelming majority of APA, across the country, is played on 7 ft tables. Their handicapping calculations are based on projected innings and other stats for 7 ft table matches, not 9 ft tables.

When stats are entered, the table size matters because the match innings are reduced by a certain % to allow for table size. Most shooters will have more innings on a 9 ft table than a 7 ft table, regardless of SL. Obviously higher shooters, like 7-9, will show less of an increase in inning count than SL 1-6 in 9 ball. So, that difference has to be taken into account.

My point was that a majority of post session play takes place on bar boxes, hence the matches that matter. If you get to Nationals, you will play on bar boxes.

Here in Baltimore, all post-session play, except for some outlying areas, takes place at 1 venue and all the tables there are bar boxes, even if those teams/divisions shoot on 9 ft tables all session.

For about 98% of the country's APA members, how you shoot on a bar box is more important than how you shoot on a 9 ft table and the equalizer system is based on how a certain SL "should" shoot on a 7 ft table.

So.....if you looked at your stats in the computer, your inning count will be reduced to allow for table size. This lets the league try and get a more consistant SL rating system by trying to make the 9 ft table stats more comparable to 7ft table stats, which they don't do very well. By doing this, should you get to Vegas, and you shoot on a 7 ft table, your team's SLs will be more in line with other teams that shoot on 7 ft tables. Because of higher match innings on the 9 ft tables, a 4 on a 9 ft table, could easily be a 5 or 6 on a 7 ft table if a correction for that is not made.

 

[Cornerman]

bullspit, Im calling shenanigins on that one. playing 9ball on 7.5-8 foot bar boxes with canyon sized pockets is a world different from playing a shimed 9 footer.

You're answering a completely different question. And that's going to be a problem if you're continuing the debate.

I could just as easily say that playing on 7' Diamond Smart Table with 4.5" pockets is a world of difference from playing on a 9' Gold Crown III with radiused shelves and 5" pockets.

But I won't, because that would be stupid. And it is stupid.

A person's skill level is different thing than the table they play on. Whether one table is easier than another doesn't diminish his skill level. And since we're talking about an SL-9 (which is what you questioned in the first place), then you might want to sit back and listen, since you're asking. If a person gets to be an SL-9, that's a whole lot of skill that you're suggesting diminishes just because of table size. How many top level bar table players (and I mean A speed, or even B+ speed) have you seen that can't bring the same game on a 9' table? Seriously? I'm not talking about intermediate players here.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

For about 98% of the country's APA members, how you shoot on a bar box is more important than how you shoot on a 9 ft table and the equalizer system is based on how a certain SL "should" shoot on a 7 ft table.

I hear what you're saying, but just for your information, in my area (Worcester County, MA), there are very few 7' bar tables. Most in my area are 8' bar tables. The regionals up until this past year have been held on 9' Olhausen furniture tables at the local pool hall.

A lot of our teams are either out of pool halls which have 9' tables or social clubs, most of which have 9' commercial or furniture tables or the aformentioned 8' bar tables.

I lived in Dayton, OH and played out of a pool hall that had 8' or Pro 8' commercial tables (National tables). So, I think it's less than 98% of the country's APA players play on 7' bar tables.

That all being said, the APA Nationals as far as I've known is held on 7' tables.

Fred

 

[instroke75]

It's the same here, we hold the LTC's in our room every year, and all the matches are played on 8ft or 9ft tables! We only have 2 barboxes, and nobody ever touches them except the drunks who can't see the end of the table. Nobody that can play ever touches them!
Jeremy

 

[Phidget]

Haven't played and don't plan to play APA (not knocking it, but not my cup of tea). Having played in some local tourneys etc, I am figuring my speed to be nearing an APA 8 but not quite there.

This is a tough scale to equate to if not in the APA. I am a MUCH better player in a tourney or playing for stakes than when im just banging balls.

I can see why people wouldnt stay in the league once they rank that high. I play an in-house custom league and am the best player in it (boring), but I stick it out to shoot with my old man. on their scale, im a 10 and Pop is a 2. Had a couple former APA 7s in the league and i beat them 90% of the time, but my break fails me too often to string racks. Working on that heavily now.

 

[MBTaylor]

Our APA players only play on the 9footers, and like someone else said the stupid 23 rule is why you probably don't see more of them!
Hell, we have one team that has two 9s on it but obviously they can never play on the same night! That 23 rule makes it hard for good players to play in the APA! It does not promote improvement. If you improve too much you end up breaking up your team to find some crappier players to play with!
Jeremy

Another reason the people who are or can be rated SL 8 or 9 don't play is because many teams will dump and put up a 2 or 1. If you are good enough to get to that level and you are always shooting 1s and 2s, why would the person want to shoot in league? Not much competition there and I imagine it woudl get old after a while.

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

How many top level bar table players (and I mean A speed, or even B+ speed) have you seen that can't bring the same game on a 9' table? Seriously? I'm not talking about intermediate players here.

I understand what your saying and don't disagree that at a SL9 (elite "A" player) equipment is farily irrelavant.

 

[MBTaylor]

I hear what you're saying, but just for your information, in my area (Worcester County, MA), there are very few 7' bar tables. Most in my area are 8' bar tables. The regionals up until this past year have been held on 9' Olhausen furniture tables at the local pool hall.

A lot of our teams are either out of pool halls which have 9' tables or social clubs, most of which have 9' commercial or furniture tables or the aformentioned 8' bar tables.

I lived in Dayton, OH and played out of a pool hall that had 8' or Pro 8' commercial tables (National tables). So, I think it's less than 98% of the country's APA players play on 7' bar tables.

That all being said, the APA Nationals as far as I've known is held on 7' tables.

Fred

Wow, you guys are lucky. All of our post-session is done on bar boxes. Would love to be able to play post-session on big tables.

But, I would be willing to bet that even though 98% may have been an exaggeration on my part, if you looked thoughout the country, an overwhelming majority of APA league play is done on bar tables.

Or, maybe because the Baltimore area APA is so big and such a majority of divisions/teams here shoot on bar boxes, we are in the minority as far as bar box use. Would be interesting to find out what most APA is played on, 7 or 9 ft.

 

[cajunbarboxplyr]

Never really understood why so many hate Barboxes......... I much orefer to play on the barboxes than the 9 footers.......Im WAY better on a barbox than a 9' but alos thas all I learned to play on and the closest 9' in my area is like 45 minutes away and I jsut dont care to travel that far just for a hour or 2 on a big table.

So in my opinion......... If you reach the level of SL9 on a barbox you OBVIOUSLY have some sort of know how on hte table am I right?!?!?!? THEREFOR you can OBVIOUSLY hold your own on a 9'!!!!!

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Never really understood why so many hate Barboxes......... I much orefer to play on the barboxes than the 9 footers.......Im WAY better on a barbox than a 9' but alos thas all I learned to play on and the closest 9' in my area is like 45 minutes away and I jsut dont care to travel that far just for a hour or 2 on a big table.

So in my opinion......... If you reach the level of SL9 on a barbox you OBVIOUSLY have some sort of know how on hte table am I right?!?!?!? THEREFOR you can OBVIOUSLY hold your own on a 9'!!!!!

I wouldn't necessarily assume anything. I've seen players who were great on one and not on the other. If there's one thing I'm pretty certain about - everyone's game goes down a notch when they switch. I think players that usually play on 9-footers rely heavily on their shot-making and long position routes. Players on barboxes will rely on their creativity and strategy.

 

[instroke75]

That is one of the main problems I have is that the competition level is pretty bad in my area. I mean these players make it to the top rankings and don't play very well at all, especially in 8ball, half the 7s in my area are c- players.
One guy thought he was the best around because he made it to a 7, and i tried to explain to him that it didn't mean anything against real players, and he looked at me like i was a moron because he was brainwashed by the APA! Needless to say just for a cheap lesson I gave him the 6 out and beat him out of $100 at $5 a game!(he's since come back down to earth a little)
Jeremy

 

[Johnnyt]

I only played in league one night and quit so I really don't understand the ratings. What I do understand is that if one player (B+) plays all the time on a nine-foot and one (B) plays all the time on a bar box, the bar box player will probably take the money in the early going. After that it's a toss-up who wins.

Someone that's an A player on these new Diamond seven-foots with tight pockets is probably going to be an A player on a nine footer in a very short time too. Johnnyt

 

[Cue Freak]

Our APA players only play on the 9footers, and like someone else said the stupid 23 rule is why you probably don't see more of them!
Hell, we have one team that has two 9s on it but obviously they can never play on the same night! That 23 rule makes it hard for good players to play in the APA! It does not promote improvement. If you improve too much you end up breaking up your team to find some crappier players to play with!
Jeremy

I might just be me, but I think that is why they have the retarded 23 rule. Your players improve too much, you break up your team and try and recruit new members, thus making the APA more money. It's a good plan, if that is their intent, but sucks for the players and teams that want to stay a team. It's also a reason to sandbag, "this team is too good, we can't afford to go up, we need to sandbag to stay a team". JMO though.


Matt

 

[BRKNRUN]

Only 17 out of 418 views. There are as many "fibbers" posting lower ratings as the higher ones.

Stalling is alive and well...even re: forum posts!!!

(-:

Well...I posted a 3 or lower and that is a legit rating.

Since I have never played APA, I assume that is the rating I would start at.....

Now...how fast I would be raised to an 8+...that is a different story and one that I can not answer

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

the retarded 23 rule.

It's also a reason to sandbag, "this team is too good, we can't afford to go up, we need to sandbag to stay a team". JMO though.

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WINNER!!!! WINNER!!!! WINNER!!!!

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"you've just won 1 shiny new internetz, Enjoy your prize and thanks for playing!"

 

[av84fun]

Never really understood why so many hate Barboxes......... I much orefer to play on the barboxes than the 9 footers.......Im WAY better on a barbox than a 9' but alos thas all I learned to play on and the closest 9' in my area is like 45 minutes away and I jsut dont care to travel that far just for a hour or 2 on a big table.

So in my opinion......... If you reach the level of SL9 on a barbox you OBVIOUSLY have some sort of know how on hte table am I right?!?!?!? THEREFOR you can OBVIOUSLY hold your own on a 9'!!!!!

I'm not sure "hate" is the right word. "Looked down upon" might be a better expression.

In my view, that is because it is a scaled down playing surface...basically due to space issues. If any other sport was played on a scaled down playing surface, that too would be looked down upon as being a "junior version" of the sport. (except maybe tennis which could be more difficult on a smaller court).

NOTE: The above comments are game-specific. I don't play much 8 Ball and have never played 14.1 on a bar box but I can imagine that those games might be more difficult on a bar box due to congestion.

Regards,
Jim

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

I don't play much 8 Ball and have never played 14.1 on a bar box but I can imagine that those games might be more difficult on a bar box due to congestion.

Regards,
Jim

Yes, IMO, that is largely correct. 9ball on the other hand is much easier on a box.

 

[Cue Freak]

DING!!! DING!!!! DING!!!!

WINNER!!!! WINNER!!!! WINNER!!!!

"give this man a prize!!", Johnny tell Cue Freak what he's won..."

"you've just won 1 shiny new internetz, Enjoy your prize and thanks for playing!"

I LIKE INTERNETZ!!!! YAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!

 

[D_Lewis]

Never really understood why so many hate Barboxes......... I much orefer to play on the barboxes than the 9 footers.......Im WAY better on a barbox than a 9' but alos thas all I learned to play on and the closest 9' in my area is like 45 minutes away and I jsut dont care to travel that far just for a hour or 2 on a big table.

So in my opinion......... If you reach the level of SL9 on a barbox you OBVIOUSLY have some sort of know how on hte table am I right?!?!?!? THEREFOR you can OBVIOUSLY hold your own on a 9'!!!!!

I play as a SOLID banger SL5 on 9ft tables. I play as a dirty rotten sandbagging SOLID SL5 on barbox.

I will be the first to say that just because you can play semi-decent on barbox doesnt mean you can play well on 9ft tables. And vice versa.

There are SL8s in my league on the 9ft tables that I would play straight up on the barbox for money.

Oh, we have one SL9 in our league. He is a solid player, never takes a shot lightly and has a strong desire to win, opposite of every single other person in the league.

Your handicap is adjusted by the tables you play on, like if you have 3 innings per game average on barbox, you can have 4-5 innings average on 9ft tables and be the same handicap.....

 

[Samiel]

I'll guess I'm an 8 if APA's 9-ball ranking system is anything like their 8-ball system (where I'm probably a solid 6). I know that in their 8-ball system, there is a large gap in skill among their 7s.