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9 Ball Run Out Exercise Pt2
- Thread starter cuetable
- Start date
Since the 7 and the 8 are fairly large blocker balls to the 5, if you have a good draw stroke, I would place the CB near the 4 and draw it back to the other end of the table near the 5, as shown in my WEI diagram.
In my diagram, the red lines show that you have a decent position zone to work with in making the 5 and getting position on the 6.
In my diagram, the red lines show that you have a decent position zone to work with in making the 5 and getting position on the 6.
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Man, this new cuetable is nice. Mucho rep to Wei.
Maybe I'm crazy, but the shot I would have likely played is similar to VIP's & PoolSharkAllen's to get from the 4 ball to the 5, but for some reason I like going off the cushion as shown. Of course if I hit the cushion too early, I'm hosed.
Even being right-handed, it looks like a little reach would be necessary, in which case, I might have gone with what Russ & Hal diagrammed.
The Z shot for field goal position between the 7/8 is nice too, but I would be concerned with the possibility of getting straight-in on the 5. Even too straight, you still might be OK though. JMO.
Maybe I'm crazy, but the shot I would have likely played is similar to VIP's & PoolSharkAllen's to get from the 4 ball to the 5, but for some reason I like going off the cushion as shown. Of course if I hit the cushion too early, I'm hosed.
Even being right-handed, it looks like a little reach would be necessary, in which case, I might have gone with what Russ & Hal diagrammed.
The Z shot for field goal position between the 7/8 is nice too, but I would be concerned with the possibility of getting straight-in on the 5. Even too straight, you still might be OK though. JMO.
Given this layout, I already decided on the exact shot that RUSS described.
It is not a difficult shot, and is actually a natural provided you hit whitey at 2:00. As long as you don't totally screw up and get below the 5 ball, it's a pretty basic out from there.
For those who haven't yet practiced this shot about 1ooo times, for every 10-15 minutes on the cue ball, you will lengthen (open up) your angle by about 2" on the third rail. So if you hit this shot at 1:00, you will come up short on the long rail. You want to hit the rail exactly where Russ diagrammed it.
-von
It is not a difficult shot, and is actually a natural provided you hit whitey at 2:00. As long as you don't totally screw up and get below the 5 ball, it's a pretty basic out from there.
For those who haven't yet practiced this shot about 1ooo times, for every 10-15 minutes on the cue ball, you will lengthen (open up) your angle by about 2" on the third rail. So if you hit this shot at 1:00, you will come up short on the long rail. You want to hit the rail exactly where Russ diagrammed it.
-von
I believe short rail position is my best option. Experience tells me you get the c/b to close to the 4 with more angle and your going to end up short. In other words closer to the side than the corner.
I'd shoot it with top center or maybe add a 1/2 tip of right.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@2DaUJ3ENcb2FMKK4GAeJ3HJbP2IJTL2Paql2XaUJ2XUOt1XbWa3XYlS3XYtU2kaql2kYnJ@
I haven't a clue if this works.
Rod
I'd shoot it with top center or maybe add a 1/2 tip of right.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@2DaUJ3ENcb2FMKK4GAeJ3HJbP2IJTL2Paql2XaUJ2XUOt1XbWa3XYlS3XYtU2kaql2kYnJ@
I haven't a clue if this works.
Rod
VIProfessor said:Excuse me folks, if this post is repetitive, but I have chosen not to look at any other posts before replying. If Craig Fales has posted here, he and I will probably agree on this one.For my money here I've got to line up about straight on the four ball and draw it back for position on the five, trying to get about a diamond and a half up from the side pocket and at least two inches off the rail.
Going one rail across the table to get about straight on the five leads to other problems in getting on the six, and I don't like where that nine is sitting in terms of going two rails around to the short side of the five. JMHO.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@2DYvH3EPob2FPEX4GAVD3HJKN2ILgQ2PUja3QStX2kUja2kYFv3kTCQ3kStV3kStW@
Thats not a bad shot on the 5, Id still prefere to do it the way I described, I believe an opinion was ask and I did give it, Im entittled to my opinion as are you.
SPINDOKTOR
Handsumm
Banned
Not exactly coming across the angle, but playing down the line into a much larger position zone than on the other side of the 5 (which is a tougher shot anyways).Hal said:
Although Russ' (and many other's) shot is natural, you have to travel much further around the table, into a smaller position zone, for a tougher shot. I don't like my percentages on that one. That is preference, but I would guess Robert Byrne, for example, would play it my way.
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I see one problem with drawing the CB back close to the 5. If the CB is too close to the rail, it may be difficult to make the 5 and get good position on the 6. In addition, once you make the 6 you need to get the CB back across the table for the 7 so this is a fairly challenging layout in that you're moving the CB back and forth across the table.PoolSharkAllen said:
Great layout, Wei. Because of the tighter pockets, and where you put that 4-ball, I don't think the 3-railer is as nice of a shot as it would be if this was 4 3/4" pockets. If the 4-ball was out just a hair more, I think shorts-side position 3-railer is the best play. (Note to users: looking at Wei's table, the pockets look closer to 5" pockets, which may lead you to less desirable options. You really need to put these balls on a table to see just how it really looks).cuetable said:
I'd have to put this on a table and shoot it. IMO, two of the choices that have been put up are about equal (3-rail short side, straight draw) ,considering the size of the pocket, and the speed of the cloth. One rail across to the third diamond should be a shot that every 9-ball player practices and accepts as standard, but the 6-bal may be in play to make that shot less attractive. But, again, if you put the balls on the table, it could look like an automatic shot.
Fred
John Schmidt & Tony Crosby
Your drawing illustrates your point well. You may be right on the money? If I could set up this shot and shoot this a couple of times I would know which one is right for me.
While your choice looks much better due to the size of the landing area, it has a more dangerous problem and that is of getting hooked on the seven ball. I guess I would have to rely on my instincts at that point in time.
The straight draw back shot isn't bad EITHER and I would be interested to know what JOHN SCHMIDT OR TONY CROSBY thinks about this shot.
JoeyA
belmicah said:
Your drawing illustrates your point well. You may be right on the money? If I could set up this shot and shoot this a couple of times I would know which one is right for me.
While your choice looks much better due to the size of the landing area, it has a more dangerous problem and that is of getting hooked on the seven ball. I guess I would have to rely on my instincts at that point in time.
The straight draw back shot isn't bad EITHER and I would be interested to know what JOHN SCHMIDT OR TONY CROSBY thinks about this shot.
JoeyA
My first reaction also was the shot that Russ posted. I learned it from watching Efren play 8-ball on accu-stats video. He played position for this shot on the 5 (page 1), and Incardona and Annigoni in the booth had no idea why he played position there or what his plan was until he uncorked this shot (page 2):
He hit it pretty hard, but all the running english became reverse for the 3rd and 4th rail, floating the CB off the bottom rail for near-perfect position on that 8 in the side. Then he dogged the 8!
Either way, it impressed me enough that I started trying similar shots when I would see them, and I find the backwards cut, double-the-corner shot, where the english becomes reverse as it gets to the 3rd rail, is suprisingly easy to control in both angle and speed.
-Andrew
He hit it pretty hard, but all the running english became reverse for the 3rd and 4th rail, floating the CB off the bottom rail for near-perfect position on that 8 in the side. Then he dogged the 8!
Either way, it impressed me enough that I started trying similar shots when I would see them, and I find the backwards cut, double-the-corner shot, where the english becomes reverse as it gets to the 3rd rail, is suprisingly easy to control in both angle and speed.
-Andrew
Questions 3 doesn't necessarily follow from the answer of question 2. Just because there is an ideal position to place the CB to get out from the 5 doesn't mean you should try to go for that position.cuetable said:
As mentioned in previous posts, a great position to place the CB for the 5 would be for a shot between the 7 and 8 to the top-left corner. But would you really want to thread the needle and risk getting behind either the 7 or 8? If you do get hooked, you're screwed and you'd have to kick your way out of that mess.
It's true that playing the draw straight back to pot the 5 in the lower-left corner has a much smaller landing window, but you have to recognize that if you miss that landing window you would still be able to see the 5. If that be the case, then you have an opportunity to execute a successful safe, as long as you can see the entire 5.
But I think people are failing to see that you can still cut the 5 in the top-left corner even if you leave the CB above the 8, as shown below. Playing it this way has the advantage that you can move the 7 closer to the bottom-left corner after cutting the 8 (page 2 on wei diagram). If it turns out the cut is too tough, then just play a safety behind the 7 and 8 (page 3). That safety is always there, as long as you don't leave the CB behind the 8 when going for position on the 5.
I personally would just draw the CB straight back being sure I don't get behind the 8, and evalute my options from there. Threading the needle between the 7 and 8 is a bit too risky for me.
Shot
Here is what I would play and why:
I would shoot the shot as Hal (originally Russ) suggested. Now really think about this for the MONEY, BIG MONEY against a good player.
Why:
1) Natural path with english.
2) If you go too far, still see 5 ball for safety or shoot up corner.
(unlike draw shot that misses window therefore basically losing the
game. Draw shot might be okay against weak player but not
against someone that can play a little. Besides if slight backcut
on 5 in the window, drawing the cue would run into 8, which would make
getting shape on the 7 hard with backcut to 6).
3) Draw shot down the long rail. Too easy to throw off straight path
after making the 4. Plus if you overdraw, possibility of scratch, or cue
ball being by foot corner pocket with bad shot on 5.
Shape on 6 is just a low right spin shot, 2 railing and coming out for
6 in the same corner as the 4.
Here is what I would play and why:
I would shoot the shot as Hal (originally Russ) suggested. Now really think about this for the MONEY, BIG MONEY against a good player.
Why:
1) Natural path with english.
2) If you go too far, still see 5 ball for safety or shoot up corner.
(unlike draw shot that misses window therefore basically losing the
game. Draw shot might be okay against weak player but not
against someone that can play a little. Besides if slight backcut
on 5 in the window, drawing the cue would run into 8, which would make
getting shape on the 7 hard with backcut to 6).
3) Draw shot down the long rail. Too easy to throw off straight path
after making the 4. Plus if you overdraw, possibility of scratch, or cue
ball being by foot corner pocket with bad shot on 5.
Shape on 6 is just a low right spin shot, 2 railing and coming out for
6 in the same corner as the 4.
One point I didn't get to make yesterday on the two rail, window position.
If you get straight in on the 5.... What position are you playing for? Do you follow forward slightly and cut the 6 backwards, following the cue ball back down table? That shot does not play well on tight pockets at the speed you'll need to hit it.
Do you draw back slightly beyond the 7,8? What angle are you trying to get on the 6?? If you draw back further, you have a wierd one rail stun angle on the 6, that has to be hit very firmly to get back to the 7.
The two rail window position shot offers the chance of getting hooked, and the position from the 6 to the 7 won't necessarily be a cakewalk.
I like the three rail route because there is absolutely no chance of getting hooked, and even if you get a thin angle on the 5, you still have a good angle to get back down table, you just might have to hit an extra rail.
A lot of people don't like this shot because they don't have a lot of experience with it, and have never really played much 3 cushion. This route has natural speed, because even if you end up frozen to the rail, you are close to the 5 and usually have good angles to get back to the 6.
No matter what, you are going to be less than a foot from the 5. If yah can't freeze the opponent on another ball from that distance.. hang it up...
Russ
If you get straight in on the 5.... What position are you playing for? Do you follow forward slightly and cut the 6 backwards, following the cue ball back down table? That shot does not play well on tight pockets at the speed you'll need to hit it.
Do you draw back slightly beyond the 7,8? What angle are you trying to get on the 6?? If you draw back further, you have a wierd one rail stun angle on the 6, that has to be hit very firmly to get back to the 7.
The two rail window position shot offers the chance of getting hooked, and the position from the 6 to the 7 won't necessarily be a cakewalk.
I like the three rail route because there is absolutely no chance of getting hooked, and even if you get a thin angle on the 5, you still have a good angle to get back down table, you just might have to hit an extra rail.
A lot of people don't like this shot because they don't have a lot of experience with it, and have never really played much 3 cushion. This route has natural speed, because even if you end up frozen to the rail, you are close to the 5 and usually have good angles to get back to the 6.
No matter what, you are going to be less than a foot from the 5. If yah can't freeze the opponent on another ball from that distance.. hang it up...
Russ
Russ Chewning said:It's not a "ying/yang" thing.. It's a "Yang beat down Orcullo for the cash" thing...
Russ
It sounds a little better with the other definition: You better play stronger than "good/heaven" (yang) if you're going to woof at ME! "Yang" is a stretch according to Smorgasbored.
JoeyA
Handsumm
Banned
Hal was correct about me not illustrating my first cuetable very well, leaving it different from the second one I made, but if you look at my first one, pages two and three show you the position routes that lead to a runout my 5 year old daughter could execute.Russ Chewning said:One point I didn't get to make yesterday on the two rail, window position.
If you get straight in on the 5.... What position are you playing for? Do you follow forward slightly and cut the 6 backwards, following the cue ball back down table? That shot does not play well on tight pockets at the speed you'll need to hit it.
Do you draw back slightly beyond the 7,8? What angle are you trying to get on the 6?? If you draw back further, you have a wierd one rail stun angle on the 6, that has to be hit very firmly to get back to the 7.
The two rail window position shot offers the chance of getting hooked, and the position from the 6 to the 7 won't necessarily be a cakewalk.
I like the three rail route because there is absolutely no chance of getting hooked, and even if you get a thin angle on the 5, you still have a good angle to get back down table, you just might have to hit an extra rail.
A lot of people don't like this shot because they don't have a lot of experience with it, and have never really played much 3 cushion. This route has natural speed, because even if you end up frozen to the rail, you are close to the 5 and usually have good angles to get back to the 6.
No matter what, you are going to be less than a foot from the 5. If yah can't freeze the opponent on another ball from that distance.. hang it up...
Russ
The shape zone is larger, the cueball doesn't have to dance, you're playing shape down the line, you're not on the short (bus) side, and the runout it easily executable.
If you guys still like the three railer after trying this at home, e-mail me a time and location for some sets @ Belmicah@netscape.net.
Russ, when you comin' home? We need to hook up in Tacoma or something.
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