9-Ball Runout Pattern

[Jude Rosenstock]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned getting from the 3 to the 4 via following three rails. From about position B above, hit the 3 with about 10:00 english and come 3 or 4 rails for the 4 in the bottom right corner.

This was actually mentioned in the original post, you just have to go to the next pages in the diagram. The underlying problem with going this way is the risk of hitting the 7-ball. I mean, I'm certain it can be done BUT why take the risk? Using bottom-right and going two rails is easy and safe. Any other shot is asking for trouble.

 

[WesleyW]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned getting from the 3 to the 4 via following three rails. From about position B above, hit the 3 with about 10:00 english and come 3 or 4 rails for the 4 in the bottom right corner.

Because it's a tough shot. If I'm not wrong there is a video showing Efren doing this. There is a thread talking about the 3 rails follow shot. On the other hand, if you don't do it right, you will kiss the 8 or scratch the ball on the side pocket.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Because it's a tough shot. If I'm not wrong there is a video showing Efren doing this. There is a thread talking about the 3 rails follow shot.

I mean, obviously Efren can do it, so can 10,000 other players. That's not the point. The point is, it's the wrong shot. There's added risk and no added value.

 

[Tokyo-dave]

IMHO, going 3 rails with inside/follow to get to the 4 is like 'ducking' a shot. I mean 'ducking' in the sense that there comes a time in every players progressive stages of the game, where the 3 rail shot as opposed to going back and forth is actually the easier TO POCKET shot because of the inside English involved. (not to mention the fact that it looks better to bangers) But although the 3 rail way makes the ball easier to pocket, it's also a fairly unpredictable line that can lead to what Mike Sigel once told me to be "General Direction Habits."
I know for me personally that if I'm trying to size up a guys speed before playing him/her, and I see him/her play a 3 railer over going back and forth when it's not needed, I automatically assume that he/she is either showing off, or needs some work with their pattern play.
dave

 

[CreeDo]

I dunno anyone who feels more comfortable with inside + rail cuts than with outside. I think most people learn low+outside on rail cuts pretty early in their position play instruction. To me, low + outside + rail cut feels like bread + peanut butter + jelly. The inside english shot feels like bread + apple butter + tuna fish. Or something.

There was a video of efren doing a beautiful 3 rail inside shot like this, I think it was the youtube video vs. gabe owen? And he did it because the angle of approach from the 3 railer was gonna be safer than from the zigzag option. I think that's the best way to decide which english to use... whichever gives the safest route, even if you're less comfortable with it.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

IMHO, going 3 rails with inside/follow to get to the 4 is like 'ducking' a shot. I mean 'ducking' in the sense that there comes a time in every players progressive stages of the game, where the 3 rail shot as opposed to going back and forth is actually the easier TO POCKET shot because of the inside English involved. (not to mention the fact that it looks better to bangers) But although the 3 rail way makes the ball easier to pocket, it's also a fairly unpredictable line that can lead to what Mike Sigel once told me to be "General Direction Habits."
I know for me personally that if I'm trying to size up a guys speed before playing him/her, and I see him/her play a 3 railer over going back and forth when it's not needed, I automatically assume that he/she is either showing off, or needs some work with their pattern play.
dave

While I agree the zigzag shot is correct here, I don't agree with all the doomsayers about the 3-railer - it isn't all that challenging for me to hit that hole behind the 7; it's just higher percentage to take the zigzag route. If the zigzag route was blocked I'd try the 3-railer in a minute.

pj
chgo

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

While I agree the zigzag shot is correct here, I don't agree with all the doomsayers about the 3-railer - it isn't all that challenging for me to hit that hole behind the 7; it's just higher percentage to take the zigzag route. If the zigzag route was blocked I'd try the 3-railer in a minute.

pj
chgo

It's so difficult to say something like this. You cannot simulate this situation. You can't set it up and do it ten times and make any real assessments. Even if you hit it 10 out of 10, it's still the wrong shot. The moment you HAVE TO hit it for the cash or your league match or whatever competition you find yourself in, things are different. Your muscles react differently. That window below the 7 becomes much much tighter and failure to hit that window is nothing less than a loss of game.

There are times when you're going to have to hit shots like these to get out so don't get me wrong, IT IS important that you can do it but really good pool isn't about making great shots. It's about making sound decisions over and over again.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Jude Rosenstock:
It's so difficult to say something like this.

Something like what?

really good pool isn't about making great shots. It's about making sound decisions over and over again.

Well, *really* good pool is about both, but did I say something different?

pj
chgo

 

[Aaron_S]

...it isn't all that challenging for me to hit that hole behind the 7

I agree; hitting that hole isn't too bad at all. The other thing I think deserves some attention, however, is the position of the 8-ball. If I were going to play that 3-rail shape, I'd really like to hit the bottom rail as quickly as possible so as to be sure to avoid the 8-ball on the way uptable. Unfortunately, the position of the 7 forces you to come into the bottom-left corner at a more shallow angle, which, it appears to me, brings the 8-ball into play, and a collision with the 8 could very likely get you hooked behind the 5. Obviously, these things tend to look a little different on an actual pool table, so I couldn't say that I definitely wouldn't take the 3-rail route, but I know that the combined positions of the 7 and 8 would be a big concern to me.

Conversely, the position of the 5 would be a concern to me if I were planning on zig-zagging. When weighed against the potential for either scratching off the backside of the 7 or hitting the 8 and getting hooked, however, I think I like my odds on the zig-zag better than the 3-railer.

Thanks for posting the layout, btw, these things are great fun.

Good rolls,

Aaron

 

[JoeyInCali]

How tall do you have to be to shoot that 3-ball with punch 3-rail stroke?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I agree; hitting that hole isn't too bad at all. The other thing I think deserves some attention, however, is the position of the 8-ball. If I were going to play that 3-rail shape, I'd really like to hit the bottom rail as quickly as possible so as to be sure to avoid the 8-ball on the way uptable. Unfortunately, the position of the 7 forces you to come into the bottom-left corner at a more shallow angle, which, it appears to me, brings the 8-ball into play, and a collision with the 8 could very likely get you hooked behind the 5. Obviously, these things tend to look a little different on an actual pool table, so I couldn't say that I definitely wouldn't take the 3-rail route, but I know that the combined positions of the 7 and 8 would be a big concern to me.

Conversely, the position of the 5 would be a concern to me if I were planning on zig-zagging. When weighed against the potential for either scratching off the backside of the 7 or hitting the 8 and getting hooked, however, I think I like my odds on the zig-zag better than the 3-railer.

Thanks for posting the layout, btw, these things are great fun.

Good rolls,

Aaron

Yeah, the 8 concerned me too, but I think with the spin you'd need on the cue ball to get around the 7 the cue ball will take a wide angle off the bottom long rail and it's very unlikely you'd hit the 8 unless you nearly grazed the 7 (hitting very near the lower left corner pocket on the end rail).

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

JoeyInCali:
How tall do you have to be to shoot that 3-ball with punch 3-rail stroke?

I think you need to shoot that shot more from across the table, as I show in the diagram (like from near the 8 ball), than from down the length of it (like from near the 6). Otherwise it's too hard to get the cue ball to go crosstable enough to get around the 7 (and you have shoot harder to get around the table).

If I was setting up position for the zigzag shot or was going to try to draw the cue ball back off the 3 I'd try to place it closer to center table (lengthwise) so I could reach it.

pj
chgo

 

[Aaron_S]

Yeah, the 8 concerned me too, but I think with the spin you'd need on the cue ball to get around the 7 the cue ball will take a wide angle off the bottom long rail and it's very unlikely you'd hit the 8 unless you nearly grazed the 7 (hitting very near the lower left corner pocket on the end rail).

pj
chgo

See, to me it doesn't look like it would take nearly that much spin to get below the 7. Again, though, it's hard to say without actually setting it up. The WEI table is wonderful, but I've certainly been fooled by WEI diagrams before. Now I'm skeptical about every shot until I've put it to the Gold Crown test.

Take care,

Aaron

 

[Patrick Johnson]

See, to me it doesn't look like it would take nearly that much spin to get below the 7. Again, though, it's hard to say without actually setting it up. The WEI table is wonderful, but I've certainly been fooled by WEI diagrams before. Now I'm skeptical about every shot until I've put it to the Gold Crown test.

Take care,

Aaron

Yeah, it's impossible to say what the reality would be in any precise way. The take home message is that the 8 is worth thinking about before taking the shot.

pj
chgo