9 Ball Situation (3) - What would you do here?

[cuetable]

Video of Tony Robles vs Santos Sambajon

Hi

So far we have 3 main ideas:

1, pocket 1 ball and position for a two way shot on 2-9 carom
2, pocket 1, 2 and play safety on 3 ball
3, pocket 1-4 and play safety on the 5

Everyone's shots have some great merits. Let's see what Tony Robles did in 2004 BCA Open against Santos Sambajon in the final (fast forward the first video to 3:40):

http://library.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=738

 

[BRKNRUN]

Instead of a runout I could complete maybe twice in 10 tries, I would go for a safe that I can do 5-6 times out of 10 with alot of room for error, and doesnt have to be hit perfect to get safe....

CueTable Help

Chuck

I actually think it does have to be hit perfect to be safe. I think if you want to play this shot you almost have to freeze the CB to the back of the 3,5,or 6.

It never fails if I leave a safe where the ball is near the 9, If they are left with ANY possibility of hitting the OB, not only do they hit it, but it does a crazy carome off that ball into the 9 and pockets it.

Especially in this type of rack...It is almost an invitation to take a flyer at the 9-ball.

 

[klockdoc]

You're 100% right. If the 6 gives you enough room to shoot the 5 ball, this lay-out becomes far more routine. In my evaluation, I assumed there wasn't enough room but that may not necessarily be the case. If there isn't enough room, I stick to my plan - wait to see what kind of position I have on the 4-ball to decide if running out is a possibility. If it's not, get close to the 5 and duck.

Looking at the 5 going in the corner, I believe it is possible with a little outside english IF YOU ARE PERFECTLY BY THE 8 BALL. . Think I will pass on this shot. If you miss you sell out. Think I will take Jude's synopsis.

I would shot the 1 in the corner with follow. Shot the 2 coming back down where the 1 was originally. (that area). Shoot the 3 in the corner and two rail out of the opposite corner to come back up table to shoot the 4 in the pocket that I got put the 2 in.

With shapes on the 4, I have two options depending on where the cue ball ends up. Shoot for a stop shot to then shoot the 5 and stick my opponent behind the 6 or play safe in this manner some how, or, come two rails (side rail and foot rail) to try to come in behind the 5 and shoot it in the opposite corner where it sits. Either way, I have a safety shot at this angle. Rest should be pretty routine. JMO

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Ugh, if you're going to fish, why not fish off the 1-ball? I mean, it's improbable but at least it's possible. What's more, if you hit it soft enough, you'll have a built in safety so long as you just clip the 1-ball (which shouldn't be difficult).

I still think running to the 5-ball is the way to go but there's your quick win if you wanna go for it.

CueTable Help

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Hi

So far we have 3 main ideas:

1, pocket 1 ball and position for a two way shot on 2-9 carom
2, pocket 1, 2 and play safety on 3 ball
3, pocket 1-4 and play safety on the 5

Everyone's shots have some great merits. Let's see what Tony Robles did in 2004 BCA Open against Santos Sambajon in the final (fast forward the first video to 3:40):

http://library.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=738

I think I win!

EDITED: No, I mean, I REALLY WIN. Tony even took a moment to think over his options once he got on the 4-ball which is EXACTLY how I called it.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I think I win!

EDITED: No, I mean, I REALLY WIN. Tony even took a moment to think over his options once he got on the 4-ball which is EXACTLY how I called it.

That is only beause he over ran his position on the 4. He was going to draw back off the 4 one rail for the 5 in the upper corner....but he knew he over ran his position...(that is why he was nodding sarcastically)

So you win by default....If he had any kind of CB controle...I would have won...

(JK...or course)

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

That is only beause he over ran his position on the 4. He was going to draw back off the 4 one rail for the 5 in the upper corner....but he knew he over ran his position...(that is why he was nodding sarcastically)

So you win by default....If he had any kind of CB controle...I would have won...

(JK...or course)

Well, I may have an unfair advantage, too. Tony and I play out of the same room. It's not uncommon for us to discuss such scenarios.

 

[alstl]

Pocket 1, 2, play safe on 3.

And then ask the guy if we can just play some 1P

You mean I'm supposed to say what I would actually do? I thought I was supposed to say what I would do if I was somebody who could play pool.

In that case I would miss the one, rake the balls and refuse to play any more unless I get the 5 and out.

 

[soulcatcher]

Well, I may have an unfair advantage, too. Tony and I play out of the same room. It's not uncommon for us to discuss such scenarios.

So you are telling us we have been sharked???

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

So you are telling us we have been sharked???

I think you mean hustled and no, not yet.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Well, I may have an unfair advantage, too. Tony and I play out of the same room. It's not uncommon for us to discuss such scenarios.

Well then...I think there should be a mandate that you discuss this particular layout and ask him what his intentions were.

• Did he intend to draw back 1 rail for the 5 in the upper corner?
• Did he intend to play for a stop shot on the 4..Meaning there was room to shoot past the 6 to pocket the 5 in the lower corner?
• Or Other Intentions.

I can't imagine him ever wanting to give up the table on this rack...It seems like he had some other plan in mind since when he landed on the 4 he nodded his head as if to say...well so much for that plan.

For what its worth, I think this thread is a good lesson in both "having back up plans", and also in showing how being a just a little off on your CB position can totally change the way you play a rack.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Well then...I think there should be a mandate that you discuss this particular layout and ask him what his intentions were.

• Did he intend to draw back 1 rail for the 5 in the upper corner?
• Did he intend to play for a stop shot on the 4..Meaning there was room to shoot past the 6 to pocket the 5 in the lower corner?
• Or Other Intentions.

I can't imagine him ever wanting to give up the table on this rack...It seems like he had some other plan in mind since when he landed on the 4 he nodded his head as if to say...well so much for that plan.

For what its worth, I think this thread is a good lesson in both "having back up plans", and also in showing how being a just a little off on your CB position can totally change the way you play a rack.

Yes, nobody ever wants to give up the table against a shotmaker like Santos. You'd just be asking for a world of trouble. However, Robles' strategy was absolutely spot on in my opinion. If you CAN run out, do it. If you can't, get close to the 5 and play safe.

I think from the video you can tell the 5 cannot be pocketed in the lower left corner but I'll ask him if he remembers.

 

[klockdoc]

I think from the video you can tell the 5 cannot be pocketed in the lower left corner but I'll ask him if he remembers.

I think you are correct, Jude. Two things I noticed from the video also.

1). the 5 doesn't appear to be able to be made from up table by the 4. I think Tony realized that when he walked around to view it from the 4 ball angle.

2). The three doesn't appear to be able to be made as easily from over where the 1 was, versus, as easy as it looked on the WEI table.

I think he played the shot on the 4 and the 5 as he planned before he shot the 4.

 

[cuetable]

Thanks to everyone and more questions...

Reps to everyone for their great insights on this layout. I purposely chose an interesting situation which does not involve a super human stroke or heroic run-out (although Tony is one of my hero who is very capable of pulling off some great magic). I hope this has been a great fun for everyone!

To echo a recent discussion on AZ, What could we do as players, etc. to better the image of pool, I have some open-ended questions. Please join and share some of your ideas

How do we explain the merits in this layout to people who don't play pool?

How can we show it better on TV, in magazine or in a discussion forum?

How do we make it even more interesting to watch for the general public?

 

[Jason Robichaud]

I think I win!

EDITED: No, I mean, I REALLY WIN. Tony even took a moment to think over his options once he got on the 4-ball which is EXACTLY how I called it.

I think tie at best. I played the table the exact same. I just gave two options. The second being the one I would play most of time.

Down for 2. top left for 3 stated to stop at same spot he did for the 3 (if ran out of position play safe on 3). slide up for 4 and try to get on 5 for run... if not play safe on 5. Only difference is I had a little more detail.

I will give you the tie.

 

[soulcatcher]

To echo a recent discussion on AZ, What could we do as players, etc. to better the image of pool, I have some open-ended questions. Please join and share some of your ideas

How do we explain the merits in this layout to people who don't play pool?

How can we show it better on TV, in magazine or in a discussion forum?

How do we make it even more interesting to watch for the general public?

I also found this thread http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=95820 (The Common Man answers questions from a Pool Player) had some interesting problems. Specifically:

"I asked him if he while surfing the TV channels would stop if he came upon pool on tv...
He said no...never...

I asked him if the worlds best players were in his town and the event was free to watch would he go and check it out if he had no plans that day..
He said no..however if it was wrestling or boxing then yes for sure...

I asked him if someone was giving away a free pool table and he had room in his home, would he take the table?
He said no..."

How do you reach this person and get him interested in pool? I thnik you either like pool enought that you want to watch, or you don't care like this guy, and your interests lie elsewhere. Personally, I stop any time I see pool on TV, same with boxing, but I never stop when I see wrestling.

 

[Andrew Manning]

Ugh, if you're going to fish, why not fish off the 1-ball? I mean, it's improbable but at least it's possible. What's more, if you hit it soft enough, you'll have a built in safety so long as you just clip the 1-ball (which shouldn't be difficult).

I still think running to the 5-ball is the way to go but there's your quick win if you wanna go for it.

If you're referring to the 2-9 carom 2-way shot as "fishing", then I have to disagree. It's a 2-way shot, that allows you to play safe early in the rack while simultaneously giving yourself a chance to win it right there. In your "fish off the 1-ball" shot, you'd have to get very fortunate, I think, to get a safety out of it. In the 2-9 carom, your cue ball naturally wants to move toward that lower corner behind a wall of balls. I'm not saying it's a clear-cut decision, since obviously yours and Tony's choice worked out quite well, but I think it's a smart shot. Certainly not just "fishing".

-Andrew

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

If you're referring to the 2-9 carom 2-way shot as "fishing", then I have to disagree. It's a 2-way shot, that allows you to play safe early in the rack while simultaneously giving yourself a chance to win it right there. In your "fish off the 1-ball" shot, you'd have to get very fortunate, I think, to get a safety out of it. In the 2-9 carom, your cue ball naturally wants to move toward that lower corner behind a wall of balls. I'm not saying it's a clear-cut decision, since obviously yours and Tony's choice worked out quite well, but I think it's a smart shot. Certainly not just "fishing".

-Andrew

I think you and I have different opponents in mind. It's a smart shot if your opponent is likely to give up the table on his next shot because you can't assume you're making the 9-ball here. Against a quality opponent, I want to know I'm locking him up when I safe otherwise, I have to assume I'm losing.

 

[Andrew Manning]

I think you and I have different opponents in mind. It's a smart shot if your opponent is likely to give up the table on his next shot because you can't assume you're making the 9-ball here. Against a quality opponent, I want to know I'm locking him up when I safe otherwise, I have to assume I'm losing.

I guess I consider this a good outcome against any opponent:

CueTable Help

Combine this outcome if I miss, with what I view as a 70% chance of making the 9, and you've got a very smart choice, in my opinion.

-Andrew

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I guess I consider this a good outcome against any opponent:

CueTable Help

Combine this outcome if I miss, with what I view as a 70% chance of making the 9, and you've got a very smart choice, in my opinion.

-Andrew

You know there's a double-kiss there, right? I mean, A VERY STRONG POSSIBILITY at a double-kiss.