9-ball, the push-out, Luck...

M

Mr. J

Jeff Jimenez
Silver Member
Some say 9-ball is a luck game...
If I make the nine on the break I win..
If I make my attempted ball in the Wrong pocket it is good...
If I miss and hook my opponenent that is good for me and bad for him...
If I miss my ball and things fly all over and the 9 falls in I win...
If I miss my ball and it hits another ball and that ball goes in or any other ball, it is good...

Aparently you or your opponent is allowed to GET LUCKY ANYWHERE ANYTIME ANYHOW....on any shot...EXCEPT THE BREAK...

Why then is Luck somewhat taken away on the Break Shot only???
If you do not make a ball on the break and your opponent cannot see the one, he has a pushout option. Maybe he should have to shoot and no pushout available??? Why can't you get a Lucky hook on The Break??? It seems to be ok anywhere else durning the game...

What do you guys think???

Thanks again,

Mr. J.
 
One Pocket..

It is the Champions Game...the Best Game...and my Favorite game..

The Most challenging game of all ...

Just so you know...

Mr. J. :-)
 
Mr. J said:
It is the Champions Game...the Best Game...and my Favorite game..

The Most challenging game of all ...

Just so you know...

Mr. J. :-)
Click to expand...

Now were talkin, flip for the break?:)



:D
 
You have a good point, but...

Mr. J said:
Some say 9-ball is a luck game...
If I make the nine on the break I win..
If I make my attempted ball in the Wrong pocket it is good...
If I miss and hook my opponenent that is good for me and bad for him...
If I miss my ball and things fly all over and the 9 falls in I win...
If I miss my ball and it hits another ball and that ball goes in or any other ball, it is good...
<snip>
.
Click to expand...

That's what happens when you play a game that was never intended to be critically analyzed. In fact, you've given it so much thought that the rest of us are going to have to wait until May before we are allowed to think about the finer points of 9-Ball again.

Thanks for nuthin'. ;)

In the meantime, I'm gonna go play some one-pocket.

Ken
 
Mr. J said:
Aparently you or your opponent is allowed to GET LUCKY ANYWHERE ANYTIME ANYHOW....on any shot...EXCEPT THE BREAK...
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I agree there is a huge luck factor with 9-ball. For some reason people excuse it here, but rant against luck in any form in other games. Nothing wrong, but just clearly inconsistent.

At the same time, it's probably one of the big overall appeal of 9-ball. Anyone can beat anyone in a game or any short race. Luck factors in, in much the same way as it does when playing poker. Anybody can get lucky, but over the long run, skill is gonna win out.
 
It's the poker of pool. Shorten the races or just make it one rack per match and you'll see Chris Moneymaker come in and beat all the pros.

Play one pocket.
 
well consider what if you do make someting on the break, say the 7, and your hooked behind the 3 and cann't see the 1. where do you fealing of getting rid of the pushout option lie now?

also, noone says that if your oppenent opts to push out that you have to take it. you are free to give the shot back.
 
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There is the same amount of luck in one pocket as there is in 9 ball. Honestly i know alot of people here are c and d players and even the a and b players. How many time shave you shot a hot you did not intend and got safe in one pocket well guess what that is luck. How many times have you missed a ball and got safe on your opponent -- that is luck. How many times have you fired a ball into the rack and made one- that is luck.
I love one pocket as much as the next guy but all pool games have luck just the way it is interrupted is different and you have to be able to acknowledge that.
 
Back to Mr. J's question... I believe the push-out rule exists because of the high(er) liklihood of being hooked on the first shot after the break... when the most balls are on the table... and even with excellent cue ball parking skills on the break, you (or your opponent) can still be snookered on the lowest ball on the table immediately after the break.

Yes, luck plays a part in 9-ball... more so than any other pocket billiards games... but imo, the push out rule makes good sense... and contributes to the game by providing another skill set to work on... whether to push or not... and when you push, what type of shot do you push to?
 
cincyman said:
There is the same amount of luck in one pocket as there is in 9 ball. Honestly i know alot of people here are c and d players and even the a and b players. How many time shave you shot a hot you did not intend and got safe in one pocket well guess what that is luck. How many times have you missed a ball and got safe on your opponent -- that is luck. How many times have you fired a ball into the rack and made one- that is luck.
I love one pocket as much as the next guy but all pool games have luck just the way it is interrupted is different and you have to be able to acknowledge that.
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The luck factor is significantly more diminished in most other games, when compared with 9 ball. So yes there is some luck in everything in life. But be realistic, there's a big difference in the level of luck involved.

For example, in a race to 1:
In 9-ball, the weaker player will have a significantly higher chance of winning a game, than the same weaker player has in a game of 1 pocket or the like.
 
Dude this is why 9 balls sucks, I mean maybe its just psychological but I prefer all the balls to be on the table, give me 8 ball or rotation pool anyday of the week over 9 ball, however in southern california, try to find an 8 ball tourney that doesnt have a completely absurd format, like race to 2 winners side and race to 1 on losers side. God why couldnt the IPT have made it.....(tear).
 
I feel now that we are the second generation of 9ballers and we take the game much more seriously than the old crew did because that just seems to be the way things went. I have heard MANY old schoolers talk about when 9ball or (short rack) games came about to actually help hustlers and give the marks a feeling of having a better chance to win with less balls on the table....which we all know is not the "whole" truth! :) I kind of see what the old guys felt about 9ball when I see 7ball,5ball,3ball even, being played :rolleyes:

I personally like rotation, or the old roll out 9ball if you want to play anything other than 14.1 or 1 pocket. Don't get me wrong, 9ball is probably my best game, I was brought up on it, and I feel most comfortable playing it.

I don't think without changing the rules to a more "luck free" style of 9ball the game will ever be really taken seriously by skilled players. My thinking on this statement is when highly skilled players get together for some action, 1 pocket and 9ball I bet are on equal ground as far as what ends up being played, but just about EVERY tourney you go to is 9ball.

Gerry
 
The Florida Pro Tour has started to take away some of the luck factor by going to 10 ball. Also you cant win on the break. The 10 ball spots if you make it on the break. Maybe someday we'll go back to the old push out rule on every shot.
 
SharpPT said:
The Florida Pro Tour has started to take away some of the luck factor by going to 10 ball. Also you cant win on the break. The 10 ball spots if you make it on the break. Maybe someday we'll go back to the old push out rule on every shot.
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I really, really, really, really,really, hope so. That would take a whole LOT of luck out of the game of 9 ball. But, it would also make a whole LOT of people quit playing the game. Most people today, it would seem, want that quick action, the mind numbing nothingness that makes them not want to THINK. Tactical, rather than strategic.
 
Pushout said:
I really, really, really, really,really, hope so. That would take a whole LOT of luck out of the game of 9 ball. But, it would also make a whole LOT of people quit playing the game. Most people today, it would seem, want that quick action, the mind numbing nothingness that makes them not want to THINK. Tactical, rather than strategic.
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So, if you can't play shape. You just push out?

Yeah, much better.
 
BazookaJoe said:
So, if you can't play shape. You just push out?

Yeah, much better.
Click to expand...

You must not play much 9 ball. This happens more on the other guy's leave, in my experience. Push out gives you more options than just trying to hit the ball on a safe or a miss. And I've heard all the crap about "kicking safe" and all the rest of it. I don't play pro class. While it may be true, pushing out gives you far more to think about concerning what your opponent will do from your push. Have you EVER played the game this way? I'll be the first to admit that it takes a lot more knowledge, skill, and THINKING than just kicking at a ball.
 
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