A couple of 40s for your critique

wigglybridge

14.1 straight pool!
Silver Member
beautiful stroke and fundamentals, man! especially in the first one. the 2nd one you seemed more on edge, were rushing and raising your head and jumping a bit, but it didn't seem to affect the results, and your fundamentals still beat the crap outta mine.

what do you use the 4 white dots for -- practicing straight-ins?

kinda hard to see patterns from the low camera angle. any way to raise it?

awesome narration in the 2nd one -- YAY narration!
 

center pocket

Got Heart?
Silver Member
Thank You for the comments. I have worked really hard on my fundamentals for years. I am mainly a nine ball or ten ball player and can beat the the 10 ball ghost regularly.

Those dots are for practicing straight ins and straight back draws as well as Bert Kinister's Mighty X drill.

I will see what I can do to raise the camera some. Hopefully I will get a 50+ run on video soon.

The 42 ball run would have ended differently if I would have gotten ride of the 5 on the rail instead of saving it for later. I am starting to find that in straight pool I am leaving the cue ball in those stretch zones I have learned to avoid in 9 ball. I got to start paying more attention to that.
 

driven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Both good runs, even better on the diamond.
Diamond tables can get a little hard if you are even a little off.
I only had the chance to play on one one weekend in Memphis, the first day I thought "whats all the hub bub about" I think I was excited to be playing on one. everything I shot was center pocket.
Next day, even after a decent nights rest, the eleven hundred mile drive must have caught up with me, No more adrenaline. I played not bad-not very good for a while, gained respect for a great table, then got a game and proceeded to get hustled some five dollar eight ball with tricked up rules from one of the locals.
He got me again the next day.
enough about me.
forty something runs are very good, imo. You are well on your way to a lifetime of enjoyment/frustration.
as someone said, good fundies, stroke, attitude, desire, willingness to learn, You already got that.
If you have a like minded friend who plays about even with you, well, you know.
thx for the videos.
steven
ps:
My next time to Memphis I am going to get my twenty five dollars back.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nice table. I just recently found a Diamond to play on and like it but it takes quite a bit of adjustment after playing on Gold Crowns my whole life.
As Bob noted it would be great if you could get a better camera position.
So much of watching or analysing 14.1 is dependent on seeing the angles as well as possible. Small variations in angles can make a huge difference in how to go about things.
It was fairly obvious you're a 9B player from watching you play. I'll offer a few suggestions which might help on your 14.1 journey. Just some general thoughts, nothing too specific. You're a good enough player that you're already starting starting to realize the importance of certain things or will fairly soon if you keep playing this game.
A little about breakshots. Try to stay away from the middle of the rack with relatively flat angles. It makes it too difficult to get the CB free. Contacting one of the top balls or the middle of the 3rd ball down yields good results and requires less speed. Steeper angles also require less speed.
Position play. This game requires superb position play. Finesse is a big asset. Direction and speed. These two variables comprise position play and as we all know are sometimes difficult to control. The best way to improve position play is to take one of those variables out of the equation as much as possible. The way that's best accomplished is by correct angle selection and also by how many rails we come off. You can sometimes take a particular shot intending to play a certain position and have a choice of going none, 1 or 2+ rails depending on what type of angle we obtain. One of those is usually more correct than the others so it's extremely important to strive for that ideal angle we need. It's not good enough in this game to say well, I'll just get over in this area and if I'm straight I'll draw back across table or an up angle I'll go 1 rail or a down angle then I'll go 2 rails out.
JMO but correct angle selection is critical. That and shot selection are the 2 most important things in 14.1. That's where you'll find your most improvement. A lot of your angles, while not bad, were less than ideal. You were hurt a few times in those runs by going across short position zones and that could have been avoided. An example of this was at 16:10 of the 45 run when you came up short on the ball in the side to break the cluster. Shooting the 13 differently and obtaining a different angle on the 1 would have avoided this.
Many times we're faced with difficult racks where we don't have much to work with. When that happens we have to maximize the effectiveness of every shot and try to increase our options. Many times it's possible to do this if we stop and analyze the situation. You were faced with that situation at 12:35 of that same rack. It wasn't terrible but could have been a whole lot better. There were a couple balls below the rack and the balls on the right side rail weren't in very good position to be very useful. The only shot you had was the combo. This was a good time to try and increase your options. If you had thought about it a little I think you may have realized that you could attempt to control where the 1,4 and CB ended up. Simply by shooting the combo easier.
These type of situations come up in straight pool all the time and require more attention to multiple details than is usually required in 9B. It's frustrating and fascinating all at the same time. Good luck, hope this helped a little.
 

center pocket

Got Heart?
Silver Member
Thank you so much for your input. I am going to print out your comments and go over them in detail while setting the balls back up again. I have noticed that I am liking the follow break shots with big angles more than break shots with flat angles.

I have been waiting on some of the regulars on here that are very good at 14.1 to chime in. I started to feel like maybe my previous posts might have pissed them off or something.

I really appreciate the input I promise I will put in the work.

Recently I have been watching the 2006 straight pool championships and I am really impressed by Thorsten Hohman and his patterns. So I have been watching him during breakfast for a few days now and I put up this 49 Ball Run this morning. I feel that I was playing at my optimal rhythm and not making silly mistakes. I would love your input on that as well if you have the time. I also moved the camera so the angle is much better now.
 
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sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll get something up for you as soon as I have time. In the meantime, take a look at the 1st part of the video and what you did with the 6 balls left on the table. You got on the breakshot (though it would have been far superior to shoot it from the other side of the table) but there was a lot of CB travel and a fair amount of risk with regards to crossing position zones and relying a great deal on speed control. In certain situations that's necessary but in this case it was easily avoided. There were 2 other ways to go about it, one where you shot the same balls and 1 where you shot them in a different order. There was also a reasonable way to get on the other side of the breakshot although it did carry some risk. Take a look, I think you'll see the other ways you could have gone.
Better run overall. Seem to be taking more time analyzing things and I'm not sure but you seem to be thinking forwards most of the time (similar to 9B) whereas straight pool racks are better done backwards.
 
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center pocket

Got Heart?
Silver Member
I watched and see exactly what you mean about getting on the other side of the break ball and not crossing the position zone of the ball up table. I was a little frustrated and settle down later on. I am still getting those flat angles on the break shots, trying to pay more attention to that. I will post an updated run in about a week to show my progress.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, getting better quality breakshots should make your life a little easier. If you objectively analyze all of the breakshots in those 3 runs on somewhere around half of them the CB ended up very close to the rack and you weren't far off from being hooked and having no shot. Rhythm is important and for the near future could be a little problem because you'll constantly be stopping to evaluate situations and decide what to do. It's necessary though. Eventually you'll start to see things quicker but right now it's probably best to overthink.
People place so much importance on end patterns but the real work is actually done in early and mid rack. When that's done effectively end patterns usually take care of themselves.
You've noticed how clear and simple Hohmann and other great 14.1 players end patterns are. Those patterns are there in large part not because of their great shotmaking or pinpoint position but more because of their decisions about which balls to take off the table in which order. A good thing to do when watching those videos is to pause it a lot (particularly when they stop to think) and try to anticipate their next move. What would you do and what did they do. Many times it won't be obvious until a few shots later but as I said you're a good enough player you'll be able to pick up on their reasoning fairly quickly. Another thing that should become clear is that, for the most part, the shots they're shooting and the position they're obtaining is not something you're incapable of. That being said, they do have more tools in their box right now, in both the knowledge and physical skills area. But you're not that far off. Knowledge in this day and age is fairly easy to acquire, much moreso than when I started out. Table evaluation and superior decision making in 14.1 is more elusive because it's as much an art as a science but it can be learned and developed by anyone who recognizes the importance of it and wants to work at it.
What will probably take the most time is the refining of your physical skills. With that there's pretty much no substitute for table time. If you keep playing a lot I think you'll find that within a year you'll be a significantly better player.
Much of that improvement will come through better CB control. Right now it's not bad but needs to get quite a bit better. The way to achieve that is by very precise tip placement, smoothness of stroke and using less speed. If you watch pros play you'll note that the action they get on the CB is achieved with considerably less speed than others might use. It's due to the fact that they hit the CB exactly where they need to and also have very smooth acceleration into the CB.

Couple other things you might do. Watch your own videos extensively and analyze what you did. What worked and what didn't. Search out different ways you could have gone. There were points in every one of those racks where you could have made things easier.
One thing that stuck out when I watched was I saw almost no use of inside english. Reverse is used frequently in 14.1 and is a very valuable tool. It allows for position routes that are otherwise unavailable and can also be very useful when trying to bump balls. If you're not real comfortable with it try to work on it. It's essential.
 

center pocket

Got Heart?
Silver Member
I just want to say thank you so much for the feed back. You are affirming alot of things I am noticing on my own. Some of them I am noticing but not thinking them so important (rolling the CB with inside English instead sliding the CB with inside like in 9 ball). Yet your comments are making me give those little things more precedence in my mind. I also need to get back on my stroke drills. 6 months ago my stroke was better and I know it. I think I am being lazy.

I am going to print your most recent reply out and making a good practice routine working on these things.
 

erica

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sparkle84,
Im glad you are coming over to play straight on saturday! :) Your knowledge of this game is so exstensive! Im sure the OP is taking your advice and applying it. I enjoy reading your comments and trying to figure out how your mind is thinking!! Cant wait to practice more!
Erica
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yeah, my mind still works. Now if my eyes and stroke would follow suit I might be able to get thru a rack. The new cloth should help, the pockets will play larger. I'll be there with a tool that may help us get you to center CB. Now all we need is to try and get DM to video...not.
We'll also see if we can break your hi run.

To the OP. Hope you can get a vid up soon. Not necessarily a run, a practice session is good. It would be helpful if you could comment on it also so I can get an idea of how you're thinking as you go thru the racks. I know it's kind of a chore but it might change how I'm thinking about some of the things you do. I know you talk about stuff as you're shooting but I'm thinking more about watching it later and describing in your post what you were thinking. Not every shot of course, just times when you were deciding on a course of action or how to deal with a problem. Particularly after the breakshot when you're evaluating the table. Actually, I guess you can do that on the vid. Take a few minutes and describe what you see and what you're going to do.
Then I can do my own table evaluation and we'll see how it differs. I think it may help you better understand the thought process required in this game.

Anyway, if you're interested and have the time. My stroke and game is so bad now that my only enjoyment with pool now comes from trying to help others if I can. Tip of the day: Don't get old.
 

center pocket

Got Heart?
Silver Member
I really appreciate your help. I can tell from your comments that you have extensive knowledge of the game and more than likely ran 100s often in your prime.

Breakfast I watch straight pool champions and try to pick their next shot.

My practice sessions have been split into two sessions a day. My morning sessions are stroke drills that really refine my awareness of stroke and sensitivity to speed control, and working inside english at different speeds/angles.

My afternoon sessions are running balls on camera. I haven't been running more than two racks but thats ok. I know when you are learning new things, a dip in performance is expected until those new things are second nature.

I will put tonight's session up tomorrow no matter what I run. I will add some commentary as well.
 

center pocket

Got Heart?
Silver Member
Below is my first attempt at adding commentary to my run, so the sound my not be great. I think I am going to try and commentate on all my future runs. Doing so I noticed that my speed control was horrible and shot selection wasn't too good either.


Run with Commentary
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the vid. I haven't had much time this weekend but have started writing a little review and hopefully will have it up sometime Mon.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey, thanks, that was great. It was probably quite a bit of work for you and hopefully it will pay off. Wasn't expecting a full running commentary but that's what we got and it was helpful. Didn't alter my perceptions too much but it did confirm some things for me.
I'm going to make some general observations and then go thru the whole run focusing on specific situations.
You mentioned throughout that your speed was off and it was a little bit. But bad speed was a relatively small problem in this and your other runs.
Getting close to rails is definitely a problem but some of that was due to a bad angle on the preceding shot and/or traveling a good distance for position. Fix some other things and that will become a more isolated problem.
Another area to address is getting close. The importance of getting close cannot be stressed enough. It makes the shot easier but the added and maybe more important benefit is that it allows for more precision and flexibility. You're more able to use all of the pocket to generate different cut angles and it's especially helpful when trying to bump a ball(or avoid bumping a ball) or hit a very precise spot in a cluster.
Another thing I noticed is that you may have a slight misconception in regards to throwing balls. Maximum throw is achieved by hitting middle CB on the vertical axis, rolling or otherwise.

I'll tell you what I think the main things are that are impeding your progress.
Shot selection
Better CB direction
Shot selection
Proper angles
Shot selection
Less travel and less speed
Shot selection
Precise tip placement and stroke refinement- they go hand in hand
And lest I forget, shot selection

Great shot selection will help make the other things mentioned easier to achieve and more precise.

One thought about english. Most people use too much english. You seem to use very little and may have to expand that at times for more creative position play.

So all of the above is basically my viewpoint of where your at. It's all just general stuff but I'll add some detail when going thru the run. Hope it's not too critical, as I said, you've got real good potential from what I see. Just need to make some adjustments. My feeling is you've been stuck for awhile now but are really dedicated to breaking thru.

Let's start at 0:50. When shooting the ball in the side make sure to stop dead. This allows for a stop shot on the 1 which leaves you closer and with a better angle on the ball in the side. This let's you get more precise position on the 6.
In this situation I think I would have used the 1 as the key ball. Stop on the ball in the side, maybe coming back and to the right slightly to get an angle to shoot the 6. Slide to the left a foot or so and get basically on the same line that a stop shot on the 1 would have provided. Note that when you slide down off the 6 you want to travel about a foot but you have a margin of error (MOE) of 4-6" which is huge when traveling a foot. The next 2 shots now give you perfect angles to the BS without crossing zones. Whenever possible go across position zones sooner rather than later because if you miss you have more options for recovery. When you enter zones correctly you've now taken direction out of the equation and to a certain extent speed is also less of a factor. Best of both worlds.
People might think I'm nitpicking here and I am to a certain extent but it's meant to illustrate principles and promote a thought process.

The BS you had, while not bad, did pose some problems. The thickness of the hit on the OB restricted CB speed into the rack. There were also scratch possibilities in the bottom right, left side, top left; or being up table somewhere. Of course all of this depended on exactly where you hit the top ball and where you hit the CB on the vertical axis (VA). 8" or so to the right improves it immensely. It could then be hit with follow. Better speed into the rack and very unlikely to scratch or be up table. However, you executed it well, the balls were open and you had a shot.
In fact this was a nice rack with no problems with the exception of getting the CB thru those 2 balls when shooting the 7. After that you had a lot of options. Then it's just a matter of staying in control. Staying in control means every variable is taken into consideration at all times whenever possible.
One big problem I have when trying to determine what I would do in these racks is I'm unable to determine exact angles from the video. So what I describe at times may not be entirely feasible.
The 1st thing I see here is that the 6 ball is an almost perfect breakshot. Can I preserve it for the next rack? I see 2 possible ways to do it, 1 depends on the exact configuration of the balls in the little 4 ball cluster (will the 13 contact the 6 when it caroms off the ball below it?) and 1 doesn't. I don't want to shoot the 4 because it may be my insurance ball if I choose option #2 for preserving the 6.
My focus would 1st be on the what I think is the 5?/9 combo. I can't tell from the vid how on it is. If it's reasonably easy then I can shoot it and avoid hitting the 6. I think it's a little off so my focus switches to the 1 ball. Does the angle on the 1 allow me to draw above the 10(?) and obtain a good angle to go into the cluster. If both of these options aren't available then of course the 6 becomes the obvious secondary BS.
As with many other things besides pool the key to success often resides in the details. Again, what I'm trying to convey here is a thought process. I think of it as the straight pool mindset. Right now you're still somewhat in 9B mode. The 9B mindset doesn't really promote and rely on creativity as well as the SP mindset does.
What you decided to do was ok, shoot the 4,15 and get back up top and break the balls. No problem with that. Unfortunately you hit the 4 which I doubt you're going to do very often.
Now take a look at your position at 4:30. You were focused on rebreaking the balls (which is good) but you didn't notice you had a perfect opportunity to get rid of that ball up table. That ball had very little value. It was alone, wasn't near a pocket and once you did break the cluster all the rest of the balls were going to be below the side pockets, nowhere near it. Fairly easy shot, natural 2 rail position route back to the center of the table. Sometimes you'd want to leave balls up table but rarely when they're alone and that far from a pocket. Doesn't seem that big a deal but I can't tell you how many times they came back to haunt me till I learned to take them out when the opportunity is there.
When you broke with the 6 you did get a little unlucky and it was a struggle from there to get to any kind of BS. That happens and you did well and were able to continue. There were a couple ways you could have gone that would have resulted in a better BS but this is getting very long so let's skip that for now.

Considering the poor quality of the BS you had you got exceptional results. Shooting the 9 next is obviously correct. But how? This is where you need to interject a little more thought into what's going to happen. Again in this rack I see a great BS ball in almost the same position as the 6 was last rack. Can it be preserved? Almost certainly it can, much more than the 6 could have. If that's the goal it tells me what to do with the 9. You intended to draw when shooting the 9 but didn't get much draw. If you had results would probably have been better but the downside is that the high quality BS would be gone.
That points me in a different direction. What if I follow, what happens? Well, I definitely save the BS, open the balls somewhat and should have shots down below the rack. What else? There'll probably still be a few balls clustered in the left area of the rack. Can anything be done about that? I think so. Not by following however.
What I would do here is modulate my tip position on the VA and speed to have the CB clip the edge of the 3 and then continue into the 4. This should open all of the balls, leave shots and maybe produce a couple BS on the left as a bonus. We've now accomplished multiple objectives with 1 shot.
All this started with the goal of saving that BS. That led to not just opening the balls but doing it in a very specific way. We've controlled the balls instead of them controlling us or leaving it to fate. Or at least we've tried to.

Well this was fairly long and drawn out so I'll stop here. More next time. Hope it's been helpful. A few final thoughts.

This last rack was a pretty good situation for demonstrating the thought process and degree of control required by this game.
It all starts with goals. They lead you to better shot selection and to getting the most you can out of each shot. They help by having you see or consider options beyond the obvious.
Goals are constantly changing and/or being reevaluated throughout each rack. I guess that should be obvious but when I watch people play what I often see demonstrates no clear goals or attempts to accomplish them. They were running in the 30-50 ball range 2 yrs. ago and are still doing the same.
In a large majority of these cases this is likely due not to a lack of physical prowess but more because of failure to expand thought processes and imagination.
I'm not being critical here. There's a lot of time, effort and desire required to play really good pool. The big drawback for most people is simply the fact that life gets in the way
 

center pocket

Got Heart?
Silver Member
This a lot to digest. I'm going to print this out and go over it in the next few days. Something else I am noticing is that I am not giving EVERY shot the respect it deserves. Every shot has the potential to end the run and I need to remember that.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 

center pocket

Got Heart?
Silver Member
So I have been practicing daily, with an occasional day off. My high runs for each day are getting shorter but where I am failing to make larger runs I am also gaining great insights.

So on break balls I am noticing that hitting them firmer is important to get a good spread. Balancing this with accuracy is important. Cue ball control plays a factor too. Some bbs I can really hit them firm and get the rack wide open, others I have to hit at a speed that ensures the cb doesn't get stuck or scratch. Also I prefer a bb that is 4-6 inches away from the rack or cluster, I can do more with the cb from that distance.

End of rack patterns have been getting me in trouble. So I will leave a few balls near the bb for my last few shots. Problem is if they are too close together then the position zones for the last few shots are to small and playing position on them is to easy to mess up.

Lastly missing balls that are so easy playing ten ball. That I have already fixed.

I will try to get a new video up soon. My high run of the week so far is only 40.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 
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