A couple of 40s for your critique
- Thread starter center pocket
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I noticed you have a new vid up so let's see if we can address some of your concerns. Particularly in regards to breakshots. One thing I'll mention is that the volume seemed lower this time so I had a hard time making out some of your commentary.
One thing I've noticed is when you put your cue down when you're trying to get the contact point on the rack you have the butt up on the rail. I'd try putting it on the table with the butt inside the pocket pulled up against the facing closest to you. Then where the cue crosses the OB get it as close as possible to the ball. Assuming you shoot the ball into center pocket this will give you a very accurate tangent line.
I very seldom pay much attention to exactly where my CB will contact the rack (mostly because the majority of my BS are quite a bit different than yours and it's not too important exactly where I hit) but occasionally I'll have one where I'll check the tangent line for an exact point.
When that happens, this is what I do to get an idea of what's going to happen with the CB.
Once you determine the contact point step back while remaining on the tangent line. Disregard the OB and pretend that you are shooting the CB from a few inches off the rail, down the tangent line at the contact point on the rack. You should be able to predict fairly accurately what's going to happen if hit with follow, draw, or stun.
If it's not apparent to you by just imagining doing this then it might be a good idea to spend some time shooting the CB into the rack on typical BS angles. Full ball, lower, higher; with draw, with follow, with stun and at different speeds. Side english is largely irrelevant for this exercise. I think you'll learn a few things pretty quickly. One of which is that there are a lot of BS where you thought you had to draw but can follow them safely and not risk scratching. Another would be when you're at great risk of going up table.
While doing the above with just the CB will give very accurate results there are 2 other factors involved when actually shooting the BS. One is the cut angle. Over or under cutting the ball will change the rack contact point slightly but in most cases it's not enough to cause much deviation in the CB reaction so it's not really worth paying much attention to it.
The other variable is speed and a lot of attention needs to be given to this because it can change things a great deal.
Why is speed so important? It determines when and where the CB starts curving away from the tangent line.
Let's say for instance that the BS is 6" away from the rack, we're cutting it to the left and using follow. We've determined our contact point. Will it hit there? Only if we hit it with enough speed so that it gets to the rack before it curves. Otherwise it will contact the rack lower because it has curved somewhat to the left. Now there is a real danger of scratching in the lower corner.
If it's hit harder then the rack is contacted before the curve occurs and we get a much different reaction. Now we have in effect cut the rack to the right which means the CB now curves to the right. The last thing hit before topspin starts curving the CB determines the direction of the curve, doesn't matter whether it's the OB, another ball or a rail.
The 1st 2 breakshots you had in this run would have produced excellent results by using follow with a good amount of right hand english and shooting somewhat harder.
Why right? It keeps you from going up table. The angle that the CB is going to the bottom rail on means that right is reverse english. That and the topspin will slow the CB significantly as it comes off the rail. On the other hand top left will speed it up.
The 3rd BS you hit well. The stop shot was probably correct there, draw and you would have been uptable. Results were ok, you had a easy opening shot and the rack was workable.
The last BS you needed to draw out of there. As with a great many of your BS you were going into the 2nd ball with a flat angle. These usually require they be hit firmly with draw and going uptable is a common occurrence. Otherwise your stuck on the rack.
Take a moment and observe the spread you got on each of the 4 BS. The best were the 2 where you hit the lower part of the rack. Next was when hitting the top ball and the worst was when hitting the 2nd ball.
The BS in your other runs show a similar pattern.
There are 3 things you can try to obtain better results. Steeper angles, with the exception being when you will contact the top ball. A flatter angle is usually preferable then.
Pick shots you can follow. And get higher on the CB. You want to get pro grade follow on BS.
Hit the BS harder. 2 of the best in the world, Hohmann and Schmidt are advocates of this approach, as am I. Get the balls open. If something bad happens, it happens, but in general having wide open racks affords many more options and makes running balls easier.
One thing I've noticed is when you put your cue down when you're trying to get the contact point on the rack you have the butt up on the rail. I'd try putting it on the table with the butt inside the pocket pulled up against the facing closest to you. Then where the cue crosses the OB get it as close as possible to the ball. Assuming you shoot the ball into center pocket this will give you a very accurate tangent line.
I very seldom pay much attention to exactly where my CB will contact the rack (mostly because the majority of my BS are quite a bit different than yours and it's not too important exactly where I hit) but occasionally I'll have one where I'll check the tangent line for an exact point.
When that happens, this is what I do to get an idea of what's going to happen with the CB.
Once you determine the contact point step back while remaining on the tangent line. Disregard the OB and pretend that you are shooting the CB from a few inches off the rail, down the tangent line at the contact point on the rack. You should be able to predict fairly accurately what's going to happen if hit with follow, draw, or stun.
If it's not apparent to you by just imagining doing this then it might be a good idea to spend some time shooting the CB into the rack on typical BS angles. Full ball, lower, higher; with draw, with follow, with stun and at different speeds. Side english is largely irrelevant for this exercise. I think you'll learn a few things pretty quickly. One of which is that there are a lot of BS where you thought you had to draw but can follow them safely and not risk scratching. Another would be when you're at great risk of going up table.
While doing the above with just the CB will give very accurate results there are 2 other factors involved when actually shooting the BS. One is the cut angle. Over or under cutting the ball will change the rack contact point slightly but in most cases it's not enough to cause much deviation in the CB reaction so it's not really worth paying much attention to it.
The other variable is speed and a lot of attention needs to be given to this because it can change things a great deal.
Why is speed so important? It determines when and where the CB starts curving away from the tangent line.
Let's say for instance that the BS is 6" away from the rack, we're cutting it to the left and using follow. We've determined our contact point. Will it hit there? Only if we hit it with enough speed so that it gets to the rack before it curves. Otherwise it will contact the rack lower because it has curved somewhat to the left. Now there is a real danger of scratching in the lower corner.
If it's hit harder then the rack is contacted before the curve occurs and we get a much different reaction. Now we have in effect cut the rack to the right which means the CB now curves to the right. The last thing hit before topspin starts curving the CB determines the direction of the curve, doesn't matter whether it's the OB, another ball or a rail.
The 1st 2 breakshots you had in this run would have produced excellent results by using follow with a good amount of right hand english and shooting somewhat harder.
Why right? It keeps you from going up table. The angle that the CB is going to the bottom rail on means that right is reverse english. That and the topspin will slow the CB significantly as it comes off the rail. On the other hand top left will speed it up.
The 3rd BS you hit well. The stop shot was probably correct there, draw and you would have been uptable. Results were ok, you had a easy opening shot and the rack was workable.
The last BS you needed to draw out of there. As with a great many of your BS you were going into the 2nd ball with a flat angle. These usually require they be hit firmly with draw and going uptable is a common occurrence. Otherwise your stuck on the rack.
Take a moment and observe the spread you got on each of the 4 BS. The best were the 2 where you hit the lower part of the rack. Next was when hitting the top ball and the worst was when hitting the 2nd ball.
The BS in your other runs show a similar pattern.
There are 3 things you can try to obtain better results. Steeper angles, with the exception being when you will contact the top ball. A flatter angle is usually preferable then.
Pick shots you can follow. And get higher on the CB. You want to get pro grade follow on BS.
Hit the BS harder. 2 of the best in the world, Hohmann and Schmidt are advocates of this approach, as am I. Get the balls open. If something bad happens, it happens, but in general having wide open racks affords many more options and makes running balls easier.
Well I finally have a run worth posting and it is my biggest run on video. Over the last few weeks my runs have not been very big at all. I feel I slowed down a lot in order to think about the layouts. In doing so I feel it affected my shooting or preshot routine. This run is really quick and I honestly feel that I missed the last break ball because I put to much thought into it. I knew it was three whole racks already and I didn't want to miss. So I thought it was a good idea to cut it to the inside of the pocket, well you will see the results.
I am also noticing that balls are dropping more consistently when you don't roll the balls softly. I naturally don't do this in 10 ball but in straight pool I have been rolling them softly for position and it has frustratingly caused misses.
Lastly I was shocked at my pace 16:00 for 50 balls?!?! I do slow down when things aren't obvious but other than that its like shooting ducks, as long as I stay in line.
Here is the run 50 Ball Run 25 Apr 14. Instead of a precise break down of every mistake, can you just give me an 1 or 2 things to work on that are still glaring problems and an overall assessment on my progress?
Thanks so much.
I am also noticing that balls are dropping more consistently when you don't roll the balls softly. I naturally don't do this in 10 ball but in straight pool I have been rolling them softly for position and it has frustratingly caused misses.
Lastly I was shocked at my pace 16:00 for 50 balls?!?! I do slow down when things aren't obvious but other than that its like shooting ducks, as long as I stay in line.
Here is the run 50 Ball Run 25 Apr 14. Instead of a precise break down of every mistake, can you just give me an 1 or 2 things to work on that are still glaring problems and an overall assessment on my progress?
Thanks so much.
Before I say anything else, I wanted to compliment your stance and stroke mechanics. Strikingly good! You are also a wonderful shotmaker, which is always an asset, but, in your case, quite possibly a detriment to your developing as a straight pool player because you can often shoot your way out of mistakes. Nice problem, though.
You've gotten a lot of good advice, so I will keep my comments short. Your cueball control and shot selection are what get you in trouble most often. Also, when you go into secondary clusters, BE SURE TO HAVE A SAFETY BALL. If you don't have one, rethink your pattern to where you can have one. That won't always be possible. But you can avoid it more if you keep that thought in mind. I also recommend, especially when playing a tight or difficult position, to have a secondary ball if you miss your shape. Very often you can avoid putting yourself it trouble with more careful consideration of sequence.
I recommend studying any straight pool videos of Alan Hopkins. He is a genius at picking apart a rack. I've been playing for almost 50 years and I'm from NYC where I got to watch so many great straight pool players, but I still marvel at how simple Alan can make running a rack. Jim Rempe and Mike Sigel are a couple others to study. Jack Colavita and Grady Mathews are also recommended.
The thing I particularly like about Alan's game is how little he moves the cueball and how seldom he goes into balls. He surgically picks balls off the edges using the lower four pockets.
Lastly, for you to be running 40's on a Diamond is pretty damn good. With your stroke mechanics, with a little more experience, you'll be a hundred ball runner. No doubt.
Oh, one last thing, I really like how you were talking out loud to yourself on the second run. It's a very useful training aid.
You've gotten a lot of good advice, so I will keep my comments short. Your cueball control and shot selection are what get you in trouble most often. Also, when you go into secondary clusters, BE SURE TO HAVE A SAFETY BALL. If you don't have one, rethink your pattern to where you can have one. That won't always be possible. But you can avoid it more if you keep that thought in mind. I also recommend, especially when playing a tight or difficult position, to have a secondary ball if you miss your shape. Very often you can avoid putting yourself it trouble with more careful consideration of sequence.
I recommend studying any straight pool videos of Alan Hopkins. He is a genius at picking apart a rack. I've been playing for almost 50 years and I'm from NYC where I got to watch so many great straight pool players, but I still marvel at how simple Alan can make running a rack. Jim Rempe and Mike Sigel are a couple others to study. Jack Colavita and Grady Mathews are also recommended.
The thing I particularly like about Alan's game is how little he moves the cueball and how seldom he goes into balls. He surgically picks balls off the edges using the lower four pockets.
Lastly, for you to be running 40's on a Diamond is pretty damn good. With your stroke mechanics, with a little more experience, you'll be a hundred ball runner. No doubt.
Oh, one last thing, I really like how you were talking out loud to yourself on the second run. It's a very useful training aid.
Thanks for the comments. I even cringed watching this run last night when I posted, especially the end patterns of the first few racks. I try to play everyday cause nothing beats time at the table. I need to buy some of Jim's videos. Everybody swears buy them on here.
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Rempe is a very cerebral straight pool player and he communicates well. His instruction videos are outstanding.
Also check out Accustats DVD collection. You'll find some terrific matches from the 1991 US Open at the Roosevelt Hotel, in NYC. I think the year is correct. Of particular note from that tournament is Mike Segal's perfect game, 150 and out against Mike Zuglan. What few people know is, Zuglan's very next game against Ray Martin (another guy to study), Zuglan nearly dupicated Segal's feat. He ran 148 from the opening break and tried an ill-advised combo that missed. And he had other open shots. I was sitting directly over the table next to commentators Grady and Weeny Beenie for both those matches. We were aghast Zuglan missed that shot. It would have been one of the most incredible moments in pool history.
I almost forgot, Miz was in that tournament, too. I believe it's the last time he played well in a straight pool tournament. Miz was another straight pool genius.
Also check out Accustats DVD collection. You'll find some terrific matches from the 1991 US Open at the Roosevelt Hotel, in NYC. I think the year is correct. Of particular note from that tournament is Mike Segal's perfect game, 150 and out against Mike Zuglan. What few people know is, Zuglan's very next game against Ray Martin (another guy to study), Zuglan nearly dupicated Segal's feat. He ran 148 from the opening break and tried an ill-advised combo that missed. And he had other open shots. I was sitting directly over the table next to commentators Grady and Weeny Beenie for both those matches. We were aghast Zuglan missed that shot. It would have been one of the most incredible moments in pool history.
I almost forgot, Miz was in that tournament, too. I believe it's the last time he played well in a straight pool tournament. Miz was another straight pool genius.
I just broke my high run on video!!! Pretty excited finishing video now and will post later. It was a 61 and got stuck after a secondary break shot.
Just happy that I got into the 5th rack finally!!!
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Just happy that I got into the 5th rack finally!!!
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Here is my new high run on video. Pretty happy but kinda sour about getting stuck in a small cluster. Oh well
61 Ball Run 26 Apr 14
61 Ball Run 26 Apr 14
Looking forward to the 61. You may have cringed while watching the latest vid and Ted is correct in that your shotmaking is saving you at times but I'm looking at this run as somewhat of a breakthrough for you. Even though the number wasn't much bigger than your other runs this was by far the best in a number of very important ways.
You're hitting the BS much better. Now if you could just convince yourself to play for bigger angles things will get even better.
Your stroke has improved.
CB control has improved some and CB movement is better.
Shot selection, while it still needs work, has gotten better.
Saw a number of instances where you chose a shot that you wouldn't have played in the previous runs and also some times used 2 rails instead of 1 to generate better angles to the next shot.
Good work, you're game is evolving. Your way of thinking is changing and as I said this run is significantly better than the others.
You're hitting the BS much better. Now if you could just convince yourself to play for bigger angles things will get even better.
Your stroke has improved.
CB control has improved some and CB movement is better.
Shot selection, while it still needs work, has gotten better.
Saw a number of instances where you chose a shot that you wouldn't have played in the previous runs and also some times used 2 rails instead of 1 to generate better angles to the next shot.
Good work, you're game is evolving. Your way of thinking is changing and as I said this run is significantly better than the others.
Man that feels good to read that. It's nice to know hard work pays off. That being said I still cringe sometimes watching my runs. Thanks for the input, if I hadn't gotten stuck in the cluster I think the run would have been in the 70s or 80s.
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I looked at the first 10 minutes or so of your 61 ball run. Here's one comment I can make:
Look at the situation at 4:25. The worst thing you could have done was gotten the position you were trying to get! (position on the 3 to open up the cluster). There's another concept in 14.1 you should keep an eye on. That is, don't break clusters into the direction where other balls are already. In this case, you have 5 scattered balls along the foot rail, and you are about to send the cluster into that direction with a break on the 3. You risk creating new and potentially "fatal" clusters. I think a better idea would be to remove those balls on the foot rail and then worry about the cluster. OR, when you get to removing those foot rail balls, you may find opportunities to go into the bottom of the cluster while preserving one of the foot rail balls as a safety. As it is, you have 3 balls that could be used to open up the center cluster (the 3 and two striped balls that form a perfect triangle around the remaining 3 balls inside that triangle). So, I don't see an immediate need to mess with that cluster. You might even consider getting rid of that ball in the center of the table. You could follow the ball that is dead in the upper corner, or you could shoot the 2 with a little inside to get that striped ball next.
Anyway getting back to the subject, let's say you go ahead and shoot the 2 and now you are going to get the foot rail balls, which is what happened. You shoot the striped ball near the corner pocket and I think you make a mistake here. I don't know what is in your head, so I could be wrong. What I'm guessing you are thinking is that you will shoot that ball and then go into the other two balls and scatter them and see what your next shot will be. If that was your thinking, then it is another mistake. You should only "play the percentages" on what your next shot will be when you are forced to.
What you should be thinking on this shot is something like, "OK, I'm gonna pocket that ball and stun into the 14 ball on the rail. That will send the 14 off the rail probably between the 5 and 8, or at least out of the way of the 9 and 8. I will have a shot on either the 9 or 8, GUARANTEED.
OK, I think that about covers it. I always disclaimer that I'm not an expert, but I don't believe you will see much debate on the two points I'm making here -- 1. Don't create new clusters by breaking into traffic, 2. Have a plan for the cue ball position unless forced to play the percentages.
Look at the situation at 4:25. The worst thing you could have done was gotten the position you were trying to get! (position on the 3 to open up the cluster). There's another concept in 14.1 you should keep an eye on. That is, don't break clusters into the direction where other balls are already. In this case, you have 5 scattered balls along the foot rail, and you are about to send the cluster into that direction with a break on the 3. You risk creating new and potentially "fatal" clusters. I think a better idea would be to remove those balls on the foot rail and then worry about the cluster. OR, when you get to removing those foot rail balls, you may find opportunities to go into the bottom of the cluster while preserving one of the foot rail balls as a safety. As it is, you have 3 balls that could be used to open up the center cluster (the 3 and two striped balls that form a perfect triangle around the remaining 3 balls inside that triangle). So, I don't see an immediate need to mess with that cluster. You might even consider getting rid of that ball in the center of the table. You could follow the ball that is dead in the upper corner, or you could shoot the 2 with a little inside to get that striped ball next.
Anyway getting back to the subject, let's say you go ahead and shoot the 2 and now you are going to get the foot rail balls, which is what happened. You shoot the striped ball near the corner pocket and I think you make a mistake here. I don't know what is in your head, so I could be wrong. What I'm guessing you are thinking is that you will shoot that ball and then go into the other two balls and scatter them and see what your next shot will be. If that was your thinking, then it is another mistake. You should only "play the percentages" on what your next shot will be when you are forced to.
What you should be thinking on this shot is something like, "OK, I'm gonna pocket that ball and stun into the 14 ball on the rail. That will send the 14 off the rail probably between the 5 and 8, or at least out of the way of the 9 and 8. I will have a shot on either the 9 or 8, GUARANTEED.
OK, I think that about covers it. I always disclaimer that I'm not an expert, but I don't believe you will see much debate on the two points I'm making here -- 1. Don't create new clusters by breaking into traffic, 2. Have a plan for the cue ball position unless forced to play the percentages.
So at 4:25, My only problem in this rack at this point is the 7 and 5 ball. My thinking is to take care of that as soon as possible. So I chose to shoot the 2 and get a small angle on the 3 to BUMP the 7 into the 5, while having the 4 in the left side as my insurance. I am only looking to separate those two balls by a couple of inches. From what you wrote, you seem to think my plan was to splatter those balls. That is just not the case.
So that's what my thinking was. I understand the concept of clearing the side you are going to break to. I also consider when is the next chance I can take care of this problem. Then I have to balance the two and I think this is where I made a mistake. The stripe next to the 5 looks like it could be a break ball and I never considered at this moment that I could use that instead. So I am in a position to take care of this problem now without risking the run, remember I am only going to bump the 7 and 5.
Starting at 4:25, if the angle is straight on the four in the far corner I would shoot that and draw back a diamond. I think I had a little angle on the four and was concerned about drawing back and coming short, being stuck next to the 3 and 15.
Now for the stripe and running into the 9 and 14. I knew in order to hit this shot with a speed to control the CB I was going to have to run into the 9 or the 14. The angle was just to steep to try and be cute with CB. So I planned on rolling into the 14. I hit it a little to slow and the CB caught some forward roll and clipped the 9 going into the 14. My plan was to use the 14 as a back stop and it worked leaving me at least a shot on the 8.
Throughout this run i make tons of mistakes but I just try to make sure I have options when I do things. When I watch John Schmidt he does the same thing. Makes mistakes but leaves himself options, or just plain shoots himself out of a bad situation. That guy can f****** play.
Thanks for the input. I am definitely going to be looking out for clearing a side more before breaking clusters.
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Got it. I couldn't really tell if you had good ideas with trouble executing them, or no or wrong ideas executed correctly?
I still dunno if I would have bothered with the 7/5 at this point. If I had nothing to lose, I might have. Only, it seems your position zone was very small to get on the 3. Too straight and you have to slam it (no good) and too steep, and you will almost surely send the 5 into the 1 or 9 area.On the one hand you have the 7/5 with 3 balls surrounding them to be used as break balls. On the other hand you have the 9/14 congestion on the rail. I think getting the 9/14 etc. balls cleaned up takes priority over the 7/5.
So all in all it seems my original recommendations were not necessary as you were already aware of those concepts. The 7/5 vs 9/14 is a different matter. Your decision on the 7/5 could be considered a free try so I might have tried the same thing (not being able to judge the table exactly from here).
Nice run, btw!
Looking back at it. You are right the 9 14 is a more immediate problem. Especially with that other stripe blocking the pocket.
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Here is a recent run in case some of you are curious if I am playing any better. My
runs have not been higher than this lately. I don't know whats going on but I am still shooting straight.
45 Ball Run 15 May
runs have not been higher than this lately. I don't know whats going on but I am still shooting straight.
45 Ball Run 15 May
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I'm counting 42, not that anybody's counting. :grin:
I'm curious, if you remember, what your thought process was before the shot at 5:45. You bumped into what looks like a 1 or 5 ball. There is also a 15? ball next to that ball. Did the 15 ball also pass the 11 into the right corner pocket? It looks like it does. If I have two balls that are not tied up and go in the corner pocket, I'm not touching them unless I have a good reason. I know you know that any time you bump balls you create an uncertainty, which could result in 2 or 3 good balls being tied up. It just looked to me like you had so many shot options that you didn't have to do that, but that's just me.
OK, it's 12:15 and you have 7 open balls on the table plus your break ball. Have you determined your key ball, and have you determined the 3rd ball (to get you on the key ball)? I think you have the problem the rest of us have: getting a good simple shot on the key ball to give us a good break shot into the next rack. IMO you made a mistake here. Let's back it up one shot and look at things at 11:50. I want to know what my last 3 balls are. I can't tell colors so I'll guess. The 2 is the break ball of course. You have 4 balls in a square. The 10? ball is right in line with the side pocket and the 8 ball on the rail. The 8 is my 3rd ball and the 10 is my key ball. Just figure a way to get rid of the rest of the balls so that you end up nearly straight in on the 8. Duck soup from there out. I can see nearly stop-stop-stop on the 3 balls in front of you. Then get the 2 balls on the bottom rail and go 1 rail around the break ball for position on the 9 (probably the only semi tricky shot, but not really). That sets you up for the 8 and a textbook break shot will be available.
I looked at your very long position on the break ball position, and asked where it seemed the wheels fell off. For me it was when you shot the 8 ball.
I know they say to get rid of rail balls early, but not ALWAYS. I'd like to hear from others if they think this is a bad strategy.
I will print this out and review it after work. Give me a day or two and I will have a response.
Lately I feel I have been sabotaging my runs some how. Hopefully you found what I am doing.
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Lately I feel I have been sabotaging my runs some how. Hopefully you found what I am doing.
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So on the first situation. After the break I determined that the cluster was my biggest problem. The 15 did not pass the 11 in the right corner. Also there was no ball near where I would need position to shoot the 15 into the right corner. Lastly the 11 needed to be cleared before I could shoot the 15. So I consider these things and knew that if I tried to move them now i had two insurance balls in case i got stuck. Basically trying to clear the pocket and get position for those balls into the corner was going to be tough. Looking at the video i wish I would have hit the shot at 5:45 easier and just shot the 15 into the side. I believe that is the highest percentage play.
You know for the second situation you are spot on. At first when i reviewed it I thought at 13:00 I should have shot the higher stripe first then the one next two it and finally those two balls on the bottom. I say again though you are spot on and I should have left that 8 ball alone THIS TIME!!!!!!!!!
This game is so frustrating but challenging.
Hey thanks for quizzing me.