A few ghost questions

Thunderball

Thunderball

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Finally got the table finished and last night was the first time it got played.

After reading about ghost play I figured I'd show my bud the game.After that we played nothing but the ghost for the rest of the night and had great time.

But if you are betting on the ghost against me:

Is the money ball on the break a win for me?Or spot it?

What if it's slopped in after a good hit on another ball...I win?

Can a combo play it in for the win?

All of these situations came up last night and I had no answers...although all of the above seem to go against the "spirit" of the game....with the possible exception of the combo.
 
It's all about giving your self a challenge so make up your own rules. Some rules I consider in my races are

1) allow/dont allow 9 ball combos
2) allow/dont allow 9 on snap
3) allow/dont allow scratches on break
4) allow player to drop one ball off table after break
5) allow player to move any ball to head/foot spot after break
6) Good safety earns ball in hand
 
i think most people play it just like youre playing the opponent.....ive seen really good players play the ghost for bets....you bet on the ghost. Usually they get ball in hand after the break but the rest is played like standard 9ball, ive seen some do it without bih .
 
However you decide to go about it, I would recommend playing at least part of the time without bih after the break. The break is so big in these short-rack rotation games that you really need to incorporate it into your practice routine, which means forcing yourself to suffer the consequences when you don't break well. Playing the 9/10/12-ball ghost without bih is pretty brutal, and, unless you're in an elite group of players, you won't be favored to win that way. I would recommend finding a game you can be competitive at without bih, whether it be 3-ball, 4-ball, 6-ball, etc., and play some of that as well. The ghost is a great practice game, IMO, but people who only play it with bih after the break may be neglecting one of the most important parts of the game.

Good rolls,

Aaron
 
Thunderball said:
Finally got the table finished and last night was the first time it got played.

After reading about ghost play I figured I'd show my bud the game.After that we played nothing but the ghost for the rest of the night and had great time.

But if you are betting on the ghost against me:

Is the money ball on the break a win for me?Or spot it?

What if it's slopped in after a good hit on another ball...I win?

Can a combo play it in for the win?

All of these situations came up last night and I had no answers...although all of the above seem to go against the "spirit" of the game....with the possible exception of the combo.
Click to expand...


The way I play the ghost for practice is:

- BIH after the break

- 9 spots if it drops on the break

- Scratch on the break is not a foul

- all else is usual

Gambling, like this but but 9 on the break is a win and most would play scratch on the break is a loss.

Chris

Ps. Besides excellent practice, races with the ghost are a pretty good way to gauge your game, compare it over time, and to assess if you are in-stroke or not. So, I suggest keeping track of your scores and writing them down somewhere.
 
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I always play that you have to make everything on the table, no matter what goes on the break. People may play without ball in hand, but nobody is going to win at that game, imo. One of the main benefits is you learn where to put the cueball with ball in hand, which is very important.

Make up your own rules so that you are competitive. The ghost is actually much harder than most realize day in and day out. You need to be able to win a lot of games in a row to be able to break even in the long run.

unknownpro
 
I agree with Aaron S. Learning to control the cue ball on the break in 9 Ball is an absolute must in winning at this game.
 
Aaron_S said:
...recommend finding a game you can be competitive at without bih, whether it be 3-ball, 4-ball, 6-ball, etc.,...Good rolls,

Aaron
Click to expand...
Top-shelf $hit there! Aaron's input is spot on and illustrative of the flexible nature of rotation games: they can be custom-tailored to the skill level of any given participant.
 
The ghost is about the only way I have been able to get quality practice time in on my home table. I have yet to find any drills that interest me as much as the ghost does.

The suggestions made already are pretty much it. Remember too that if you find you struggle with the 9ball ghost, you can play it with a handicap. You do need to spend some time trying to figure out what is the fair game between you and ghost. For me, its:
BIH after the break
combos allowed
scratch on break= no loss
nothing spots up.

The beauty of the ghost is you can constantly tweak the game to put pressure on yourself. Find that you are winning too much? Try changing it by making scratch on break = loss. Then try it with that and add in no combos allowed. Then add in 9 spots up. You get the point, its a flexible game that can be handicapped up and down by changing the rules to make it harder/easier. If you find that you are robbing the game, then change it up to 10ball. Getting your ass handed to you? try getting the 8 or the 7 from the Ghost.

The suggestion to keep records of what goes on is a good one. I have a small notepad on the bookshelf next to my table and I try to write down info after every game. my notepad has for example

July 19th, 2007
started 8:30 pm
1) 2 on brk/ miss on 7 1-0
2) 1 on brk (scratch)/ runout 1-1
3) 0 on brk/ miss on 6 2-1
4) 3 on brk/runout 2-2
5) 9 on brk 2-3
6) 1 on brk runout 2-4
7) 2 on brk runout 2-5
won 5-2 time
8:55 finished

I know it sounds anal but tracking your results against the ghost are a good tool to trying to gauge your current speed as well as what aspects of your game are weak. For example, a year back I noticed my ghost results had my break not being effective. Too many scratches. So I worked on trying to achieve a better hit on the 1 and scaled back the speed some.

In the work I do for a living, I have to do analysis alot and maybe its because of that I know the importance of collecting a good sample of data. You cannot analyze anywhere near as good if you try to just reflect on things using your memory.
 
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Another way to track your progress is to start with 3 ball break bih. If you run the out, break 4 ball, and go up one ball at a time every time you run out, and back up one ball every time you don't. After about 2 hours of this, you will be able to tell what ghost ball game you should be able to win or lose, and adjust to that if you gamble. That way you already have some clue as to what your game is. As you get more practice, hopefully your ghost average goes up.

Keep in mind that it only takes offensive play into consideration.
 
Wow.Thanks again guys.

I almost missed some of the later replies.Great post Uwate and all.Helpfull stuff.

Right now,with the new felt and balls (gotta find the speed=biggest problem) I am under 50% against the Ghost playing 6 ball,BIH after the B,Scratch on the break ok.


Tweeked the rules for the guys and I too:
Money ball on the break gets spotted.
No combos with the BIH shot.
No slop...all called.

Tweek one was the same as day one...but we decided to leave it.
Tweek two came up once and that one got figured out in a hurry.But combos otherwise are allowed for now.
Tweek three fixed a number of problems that go against the spirit of the game imo.

Day two of this brought me much closer to 50% then day one which was pretty horrible...but like I said,not only is it all new,its new to me.I expect (or at least hope) that I will be able to beat the ghost at this game in a few weeks (maybe sooner) more than he beats me.

When that happens I'll tweek it in the ways mentioned.Data tracked of course.

Very helpfull thread guys.Many thanks again.
 
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