A Great Synopsis Of The Ivory Ban Re: Pool Cues

[haystj]

Well, I'm a serious buyer if someone wants to part with their old school style cue because it contains a small amount of ivory .

Good grief people,,, don't complain about an insignificant amount of ivory when you violate "animal rights" every single day of your life.

Sheeesh

 

[CJH]

I own plenty of cues with Ivory inlays, joints and ferrules. The ivory in the cues I own was harvested before many of us were even born and I would wager, although it can't be proven, that some of the ivory came off elephants that had died of natural causes prior to their tusks being taken.

Poaching is a crime and I am against crime. I am particularly repulsed by cruelty to people and animals. However, I don't associate crime or cruelty with the cues I own that were made with legal ivory and sold legally any more than I am eating a hamburger. I have no idea hoe the ivory was harvested.

I believe that the way this new law/ban was written is a crime. Retroactively making illegal that which was perfectly legal at the time of manufacture and trade. It makes criminals out of lawful people and causes financial loss. It is extremist activism. I would be very happy if not one elephant was murdered for it's tusks. There are more logical and effective methods to this end.

In the meantime, I have cues that contain Ivory from Black Boar, Dennis Searing, Joel Hercek, Tim Scruggs, Mike Bender, Corey Barnhart, etc., etc. I am happy to sell them them to anyone interested or keep them for my enjoyment. They are all pristine and beautiful instruments from top craftsman. In the right hands, they will dissect and dispense with a rack of billiard balls with unmatched feel, touch, power and precision. They are also beautiful works of art and craftsmanship.

 

[justaplayer]

We have no idea what the government wants to do or how vigorously they want to take on the issue of pool cues with ivory in them. In the big scheme of government things it is small potatoes and any kind of large scale inspection, enforcement, and prosecution effort takes money, manpower, and time. Good luck with that.

I think the mistake many are making is the presumption that the government, after an attempted high vis prosecution, is going to continue the witch hunt. No one has any idea what the situation is going to be like five, 10 years from now. But people are acting like the government is going to be breaking down doors, performing raids, and stopping players at every state border over a few pieces of ivory from long dead elephants, in pool cues.

It does not help when there are nut jobs out there trying to whip up a frenzy of paranoia about the issue. No one knows.

Lou Figueroa

Nut job? Isn't the single greatest living cuemaker facing charges??? It's already happening Lou.

The guys earning Federal pensions and benefits at US Fish and Wildlife, along with the multitudes of ambitious district attorneys, are just looking for easy ways to justify their positiins. It would be all too simple to monitor a series of ivory cue sales here, on ebay and by the cue dealers over a period of months....then drop the hammer on multiple illegal sales to get max exposure. That's how they think. It wouldn't be very hard getting proof of a sale, then obtsin the delivery confirmatios that proves delivery to states that forbid it. Pretty easy. Then get buyers to turn on sellers...

 

[lfigueroa]

Nut job? Isn't the single greatest living cuemaker facing charges??? It's already happening Lou.

The guys earning Federal pensions and benefits at US Fish and Wildlife, along with the multitudes of ambitious district attorneys, are just looking for easy ways to justify their positiins. It would be all too simple to monitor a series of ivory cue sales here, on ebay and by the cue dealers over a period of months....then drop the hammer on multiple illegal sales to get max exposure. That's how they think. It wouldn't be very hard getting proof of a sale, then obtsin the delivery confirmatios that proves delivery to states that forbid it. Pretty easy. Then get buyers to turn on sellers...

That is complete supposition on your part.

No one knows. One high vis case -- which they could lose, BTW -- and no one knows, not even you, how it'll go. So all the wailing and gnashing of teeth by the nut jobs is at least a little premature.

Lou Figueroa

 

[zeeder]

That is complete supposition on your part.

No one knows. One high vis case -- which they could lose, BTW -- and no one knows, not even you, how it'll go. So all the wailing and gnashing of teeth by the nut jobs is at least a little premature.

Lou Figueroa

Not to mention the fact that Ernie's issues have nothing to do with the recent bans/laws.

 

[Bavafongoul]

CJH......does your Hercek cue happen to be a flat ivory joint and weigh mid-18's by chance?


Matt B.

 

[zeeder]

CJH......does your Hercek cue happen to be a flat ivory joint and weigh mid-18's by chance?


Matt B.

I don't know why but I get the feeling that you're in the market for a big pinned ivory joint Hercek. Weird, I'm not usually this intuitive!

 

[Big-Tattoo]

I don't know why but I get the feeling that you're in the market for a big pinned ivory joint Hercek. Weird, I'm not usually this intuitive!

Lol,
He pushed always his Prewitt :wink:

 

[Bavafongoul]

zeeder..........you are a regular Columbo.

If I could have gotten Ed to finish the two new matching shafts in 12.75mm before the CA ivory ban hit,
my EP cue would be ideal. It's pretty darn close right now because it weighs 18.8 ozs with 13 mm shafts
& smaller shafts would have lowered my cue's weight to 18.5 ozs which is ideal. I can indulge its current
weight but frankly, when you pay as much as what Hercek & Prewitt cue command you really should
never have to settle......just my opinion.

Big-Tatoo is correct.......I searched on the Forum a very long time before I was able to find my Prewitt cue.
There are few fancy EP cues for sale & from here out, there'll be a lot less with ivory or so I'm imagining.

 

[zeeder]

Yeah, the powers of deduction are new!

Joel told me that I will be coming up on his next batch in about four years so I have until then to decide what direction I want to go...lol. As much as I like ivory, I'm sure the main reason is because it is a material that adds, or used to add, value to the cues. I'm working on a design for a Josh Treadway commission at the moment and am struggling with the decision to stick with ivory or not (he's in-state so it would be legal).

 

[justaplayer]

That is complete supposition on your part.

No one knows. One high vis case -- which they could lose, BTW -- and no one knows, not even you, how it'll go. So all the wailing and gnashing of teeth by the nut jobs is at least a little premature.

Lou Figueroa

Sounds like a bet. You say EG charges are dropped in dome Perry Mason moment or the government admits it's overreaching. I say he's gonna plead to a charge. 500 good? I can post.

 

[KRJ]

I agree. But that's not the only way ivory is obtained.

Unfortunately a lot of people are being stigmatized because the general public equates ALL ivory with senseless slaughter.

It's a blind double standard if you ask me.
Screw the polar bears and seals. Phuck the whales, dolphins, sea turtles and manatees.

Forget about the birds we slaughter for feathers and the chickens we cage and torture from the moment they're born until we eat them.

Ever seen how a cow is bled out before butchering?

Ever been to a dog pound or animal shelter?

EVER BEEN TO A ZOO?

So many animals out there that we catch, trap, farm, breed, manipulate and hybridize for the SOLE PURPOSE of being slaughtered.

But damn..better be nice to those elephants.

Who has said "ignore polar bears, seals and whales" Lots of groups work to protect them.

Chickens are not "majestic creatures". They are bred for one purpose and one only, too feed you. Chickens don't raise their young for years, nor are they intelligent creatures in danger of ever disappearing from the planet.

Yep, been to many Zoo's, and they have state of the art homes, fed well, and best medical care anywhere. Big difference to caring and feeding an animal to killing them for sport or other reasons imho.

Yep, volunteer at a no kill shelter, we find a home for every cat and dog that comes in. But, that probably makes me some kind of left wing nut job (even though I'm a conservative)

And yes, I do know the difference between legal and illegal ivory, so please don't go there. If it's legal, put in your cue so someone can pay a premium for it, that's fine. Seems silly what we pay to shoot balls into a pocket, but then again, we're pool players One reason I'm into Sneaky Pete's now and forever. Good solid cues, no extras, and they work just like any other cue on the markets... Kind of like a jeep, just there to get the job done

 

[lfigueroa]

Sounds like a bet. You say EG charges are dropped in dome Perry Mason moment or the government admits it's overreaching. I say he's gonna plead to a charge. 500 good? I can post.

lol, is this John? lol.

In any case, learn to read: I said the Feds could lose, not that they would. I also said no one knows what's going to happen.

Alas, it is the same flawed, stale baloney people like you try to get away with over and over on this topic in attempt to create a frenzy.

Lou Figueroa

 

[CJH]

CJH......does your Hercek cue happen to be a flat ivory joint and weigh mid-18's by chance?


Matt B.

Matt - The Hercek is a piloted ivory joint. Not sure of the weight but I'm bringing into work Monday (maybe even tomorrow) to weigh the butt and both shafts. Here are some low quality pictures I just took. I have better pics but too big for this forum.

 

[Shooter08]

I have $20 that Bava will not buy anything other than a 3/8x(X) with a flat face Ivory joint!!

 

[CJH]

I have $20 that Bava will not buy anything other than a 3/8x(X) with a flat face Ivory joint!!

Yeah I know so I won't take your bet unless I get enormous odds. Always a slim chance he will see what a specimen this is and the importance of the flat joint will diminish. :thumbup2:

 

[Bavafongoul]

Tom Is a Soothsayer

CJH....absolutely a beautiful design with a very unique sleeve.
The rings look spectacular & you obviously treat it with respect.

Everything appearance wise is classy from stem to stern....but
Tom is absolutely correct with his wager.....it is a gorgeous cue
but unfortunately has a different joint than what I am looking for.

I have had a couple of Hercek cues offered, one being the Mustafa
cue (Lion Head Scrimshaw) and the last 5 - 6 have been just
knockout handsome specimens but either the shaft was piloted or
was too heavy. My weight range is 18.3 -18.7 and ideal is 18.5 ozs.

Joel Hercek was gracious to speak with me and based upon our
discussion, my odds of locating that type cue is slim and in all
probability, I'd need to order a cue built to those specs. The folks
who own cues like that just do not bring these cues to the market.

Obladi.....Oblada.......Thanks to Dean, I've added some nice cues
so it's not like I am desperate. But when finance isn't an obstacle
and finding such a cue is, the overall situation just becomes very
frustrating. And then the stupid CA ivory ban happens and so it
all combines for a rather pessimistic outlook for adding a Hercek.


Matt B.


p.s. I know people understandably think I'm being inflexible and
picayune but any cues I add have to match the current line-up.

 

[Sealegs50]

I know people understandably think I'm being inflexible and picayune but any cues I add have to match the current line-up.

It's your money and your cues. You get to choose.

 

[chefjeff]

[/B]

Just to kill an animal for its tusks is disgusting.

How about the cue tip made from the hides of animals?

Disgusting, too?

Or the cheeseburger eaten while playing? (Or the 12 course meal eaten while playing 1 pocket?)


Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

Nut job? Isn't the single greatest living cuemaker facing charges??? It's already happening Lou.

The guys earning Federal pensions and benefits at US Fish and Wildlife, along with the multitudes of ambitious district attorneys, are just looking for easy ways to justify their positiins. It would be all too simple to monitor a series of ivory cue sales here, on ebay and by the cue dealers over a period of months....then drop the hammer on multiple illegal sales to get max exposure. That's how they think. It wouldn't be very hard getting proof of a sale, then obtsin the delivery confirmatios that proves delivery to states that forbid it. Pretty easy. Then get buyers to turn on sellers...

Hey, wadda ya know, a pool player knows the govt hustle and ain't fallin' for it!!!

Jeff Livingston