A little confused......Advice please!

Rjmoncrief

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello All.......I am in the market for a fairly inexpensive Players cue, maybe a decent Sneaky. Here's where I'm a little confused. I've heard different ones here on the forums say that a $200 production cue will play the same as the same makers $800 cue. I understand that part but if I can purchase a decent cue for $200, let's say a Players HXT model with a very good low deflection shaft but some of the Custom Sneaky's on here are $400 and even more then what is the price difference for? Is that Custom Sneaky going to play that much better or am I paying for quality craftsmanship or what??? I have all the respect and much deserved admiration for the craft and ability of those that can produce Custom cues but I really dont understand what I'm actually paying for!
So am I better off paying $200 for that Players Productions cue or not? Again, please dont misunderstand my intentions, I love the Custom cues I see on here, and have all the deserved respect to the Custom Cue makers but.........:confused::confused::confused:
Thanks!
 
production or custom

when you buy production they normally have several people working for them in a factory,they are probally paid by the hour,there name is not attached to the product,nor is thier reputation.lets say i have a factory that produces 1000 cues a month ,the cost of a high quality tip is $10 a lesser tip is $1,by using a lesser tip i can save $9000.this could be any material that is in the making of a cue.
most custom cuemakers will use higher grade materials,as their reputation and future business depends on how the cue preforms,along with their craftsmenship.most custom cuemakers make a fairly low number of cues a year,the extra cost of high quality materials is minimal.and not to forget that most custom cuemakers put heart and pride into their work.
 
The simple answer to your question is the cost of living in America as opposed to the cost of living in China.
The reason that American mfrs. have their products made in China is because labor-costs are significantly cheaper.
Unfortunately, that is many times reflected in the quality of the product being produced.
Let's cut to the chase so I can get back to my coffee.
Would you rather have your heart-surgery done in China where you'll likely save a few bucks,
or would would you prefer to have the same surgery done in the states knowing you'll pay a little more?
Chinese craftsmanship vs American craftsmanship, you be the judge. Your call.
That's the American Exceptional-ism that I believe in.

KJ
 
With a production cue.... you get what everyone else gets. Some brands of production cues feel and hit nice and some are dead.

With a custom cue you get what one person has learned to build over a number of years with his characteristics and style.

Can you shoot pool as well with a production cue??? most likely....

Kim
 
A production cue is not as consistant as a custom cue, why, well an oversea's made cue is not held to the same standards. The quality control is not that high on the priority list unfortunately. If a custom cue maker is going to put his or her name on a cue then its going to be right. Also you have someone who has years of perfecting there style of cue contruction, hit, feel etc and its consistant.

You're paying for a cue being stamped out by the hundreds or a cue made to fit you and your tastes, its that simple.
 
There is a wonderful US manufacturer of fine cues, Schmelke Cues. I own several custom sneakies, made by well known and lesser known cuemakers. I also own 3 Schmelke sneakies, one with a standard taper, one with a pro taper shaft, and one with an extended pro taper shaft. The pro taper Schmelke is a very good cue, and when you consider its under-$150 price tag it is great value. I would suggest having a look at these folks :

http://schmelkecue.com/about-us

They offer what I would consider a "semi-custom" cue where you can define many parameters of the cue.

Note also that many "custom" sneakies start out as a Schmelke blank.

Dave
 
OB Cues is an American cue company.

Our cues are technically production cues, but are really built more like custom cues. We use quality materials and our construction methods and tolerances are better than most custom cues.

You will find things in our cues that you won't find in any other cues, like our Infinity Inlays, for example. Infinity inlays are a new method of inlay that provides razor sharp tips to regular inlays, not just spliced points. You will also find things like our "Straight Line Core" and "Centralized Balance System". Our birdseye cues have matching forearms and buttsleeves. Meaning that both pieces actually come from the same piece of birdseye maple before they cue is constructed. We use threaded collars at all locations for strength, longevity and solid playability.

Not to mention they all come already fitted to one of our High Performance cue shafts, a $235.00 value in and of itself.

Take a look, www.obcues.com

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
I play with an OB hustler when I sell one of my personal cue builds that I have been testing out for a couple months and I end up selling. The OB cue hits great and I am very happy with it.
 
OB Cues is an American cue company.

Our cues are technically production cues, but are really built more like custom cues. We use quality materials and our construction methods and tolerances are better than most custom cues.

You will find things in our cues that you won't find in any other cues, like our Infinity Inlays, for example. Infinity inlays are a new method of inlay that provides razor sharp tips to regular inlays, not just spliced points. You will also find things like our "Straight Line Core" and "Centralized Balance System". Our birdseye cues have matching forearms and buttsleeves. Meaning that both pieces actually come from the same piece of birdseye maple before they cue is constructed. We use threaded collars at all locations for strength, longevity and solid playability.

Not to mention they all come already fitted to one of our High Performance cue shafts, a $235.00 value in and of itself.

Take a look, www.obcues.com

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

Here is the down side to your cues for people
like me.I've been playing for 53 years with standard maple shafts.I will not switch to low deflection shafts.So your cues and some others that come standard this way are never going to be bought by me or others of the same mind set.Why not offer a standard shaft as an option?
Also to the op if $200 is a comfortable price take a look at Lucasi cues.I have one and I like it.Mine has a standard shaft.
Lucasi also now comes standard with a low deflection shaft. I know this trend is the future and I get it. It's just not for me.
 
Here is the down side to your cues for people
like me.I've been playing for 53 years with standard maple shafts.I will not switch to low deflection shafts.So your cues and some others that come standard this way are never going to be bought by me or others of the same mind set.Why not offer a standard shaft as an option?
Also to the op if $200 is a comfortable price take a look at Lucasi cues.I have one and I like it.Mine has a standard shaft.
Lucasi also now comes standard with a low deflection shaft. I know this trend is the future and I get it. It's just not for me.

Measureman,

Thanks for the reply, and I completely understand.

I do, however, believe that it's not quite as cut and dry as you might think it is. I'm certainly not saying that you are wrong, or that you should play with LD. You should play with what you like. But, I've had many many people who said the same thing that, after a little discussion, gave it another shot and never regretted it.

You see, even though you play with regular squirt cue shafts, you still adjust for squirt. Not only do you adjust for it, you have to change that adjustment anytime you change equipment because very few regular cue shafts squirt the same as each other.

I think the goal of most players is to reach the point where they don't consciously think about cue ball squirt. They want to reach a point where it's automatically compensated for by their subconscious. I was that way with my regular squirt shafts long ago, and I'm that way now with my low squirt shafts.

I find that a lot of people, when they try an LD (really low squirt) shaft, they feel that they need to do something different to "compensate" because it's an LD shaft. Obviously, if you pick up a low squirt shaft, you'll miss shots with side spin because they squirt differently. Actually, if you picked up a regular shaft that had much more squirt than what you currently play with, you'd have the same thing. You would miss shots with side spin because it squirts the cue ball a different amount than what your subconscious is automatically compensating for.

Whenever a person changes equipment, they usually have an adjustment period. During this time they are getting used to a new cue. Actually, the biggest thing they are "adjusting" to is the change in squirt. It may be more, or it may be less, but the point is that it's different. During this time, the person usually doesn't worry about it, or do anything special. They just keep aiming a little more full or a little thinner depending on how they are missing the shot. Over a short time, their subconscious gradually homes in on the amount of squirt for the new equipment and they are back to normal.

Adjusting to a low squirt shaft is really the same thing. I don't recommend doing anything special or complicated, just play with it. You'll adjust automatically before you know it.

Years ago, before I started building our LD cue shafts, I used to make a few shafts for local players. They were all solid maple shafts, but the players really liked them. Most of those who bought them would tell me later that they felt that they made spinning the cue ball easier. Not because it put more spin on the ball, but because it was easier to still make the shot with side spin. Those shafts, although not really low squirt, were just lower in squirt than what they were used to. Yes, they had to adjust to them, but once they did, they started to see the benefit of what lower squirt really does. And that is it improves a margin of error.

With a low squirt shaft, when you miss a little, the error is compounded less than with a higher squirt shaft. That's pretty much it. If you don't ever miss, then it certainly won't help you. Last I checked, I still do, so I'll take any advantage I can have. Other than that, there really isn't much difference. Of course, there are preferences like feel and sound, but those can be had on either side of the fence.

So, as I said, please don't take this as I'm saying that you are wrong, or even that I disagree with you. But I don't believe that there is anyone who absolutely cannot adjust to whatever cue they are playing with, including what we call Low Deflection.

For what it's worth, I'd be interested to know how many out there would be interested in our cues if we did offer a regular squirt shaft option. It certainly wouldn't be a difficult thing to add to the line up.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
Measureman,

Thanks for the reply, and I completely understand.

I do, however, believe that it's not quite as cut and dry as you might think it is. I'm certainly not saying that you are wrong, or that you should play with LD. You should play with what you like. But, I've had many many people who said the same thing that, after a little discussion, gave it another shot and never regretted it.

You see, even though you play with regular squirt cue shafts, you still adjust for squirt. Not only do you adjust for it, you have to change that adjustment anytime you change equipment because very few regular cue shafts squirt the same as each other.

I think the goal of most players is to reach the point where they don't consciously think about cue ball squirt. They want to reach a point where it's automatically compensated for by their subconscious. I was that way with my regular squirt shafts long ago, and I'm that way now with my low squirt shafts.

I find that a lot of people, when they try an LD (really low squirt) shaft, they feel that they need to do something different to "compensate" because it's an LD shaft. Obviously, if you pick up a low squirt shaft, you'll miss shots with side spin because they squirt differently. Actually, if you picked up a regular shaft that had much more squirt than what you currently play with, you'd have the same thing. You would miss shots with side spin because it squirts the cue ball a different amount than what your subconscious is automatically compensating for.

Whenever a person changes equipment, they usually have an adjustment period. During this time they are getting used to a new cue. Actually, the biggest thing they are "adjusting" to is the change in squirt. It may be more, or it may be less, but the point is that it's different. During this time, the person usually doesn't worry about it, or do anything special. They just keep aiming a little more full or a little thinner depending on how they are missing the shot. Over a short time, their subconscious gradually homes in on the amount of squirt for the new equipment and they are back to normal.

Adjusting to a low squirt shaft is really the same thing. I don't recommend doing anything special or complicated, just play with it. You'll adjust automatically before you know it.

Years ago, before I started building our LD cue shafts, I used to make a few shafts for local players. They were all solid maple shafts, but the players really liked them. Most of those who bought them would tell me later that they felt that they made spinning the cue ball easier. Not because it put more spin on the ball, but because it was easier to still make the shot with side spin. Those shafts, although not really low squirt, were just lower in squirt than what they were used to. Yes, they had to adjust to them, but once they did, they started to see the benefit of what lower squirt really does. And that is it improves a margin of error.

With a low squirt shaft, when you miss a little, the error is compounded less than with a higher squirt shaft. That's pretty much it. If you don't ever miss, then it certainly won't help you. Last I checked, I still do, so I'll take any advantage I can have. Other than that, there really isn't much difference. Of course, there are preferences like feel and sound, but those can be had on either side of the fence.

So, as I said, please don't take this as I'm saying that you are wrong, or even that I disagree with you. But I don't believe that there is anyone who absolutely cannot adjust to whatever cue they are playing with, including what we call Low Deflection.

For what it's worth, I'd be interested to know how many out there would be interested in our cues if we did offer a regular squirt shaft option. It certainly wouldn't be a difficult thing to add to the line up.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

Fair enough.I'm still not switching.
Interesting thought here in bold.That would be a good question on the main forum.It would not get much response here.
 
Custom vs production

While I do own customs, none where custom to me. I have had ferrules, tips, tapers, wraps and weights changed to have the cue meet my needs. I have had to do the same thing to production cues. Does this now make them custom?

Unless you are investing in a cue that will increase or at least remain the same price as you paid, investing in aesthetics, or just want something made exactly as you want it, production cues are fine.

With regard to production cues, Schon, McDermott, Viking, Schmelke, Lucasi, Adam, Falcon, Mezz....... I am a firm believer in the older cues when higher quality lumber was readily available.

C and D series McD's play great, Falcons feel like a perfect mix between a Schon and Joss, Schmelle will make a custom sneaky for under $150. Lots of wonderful choices.
 
I have a Lucasi cue. And as most know I really like it.
It's 5 years old and yesterday at the pool room I was rolling it on the table and it was as straight as a cue could be.Finish still looks real good,no lifting or bubbles.The rings were slightly raised when I bought it but have remained the same.
Maybe I just got a good one or it could be that I take very good care of it and live in a very dry climate.
 
Fair enough.I'm still not switching.
Interesting thought here in bold.That would be a good question on the main forum.It would not get much response here.

Measureman

Enough said! I have nothing but respect for you.


I too would like to know if it could add sales for us. One day I just might jump out there and see how it would do. Right now, we are struggling to catch up with back orders, so I don't think it would be a good time. But someday we may see.

Thanks again for your input, and loving our great sport. I'd love to meet you in person if you are ever at an event at which we show. Don't worry, I won't try to convince you to switch to our cue shafts, lol!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
I'm with measureman, I prefer a plain old fashion maple shaft. I'm 43, and that is what I've grown used to over the last 25 years or so of playing.

I like sneaky's alot, always have one. I buy custom ones most of the time, just because I can get the taper and balance point that I want. Someone mentioned schmelke cues, and don't think you could go wrong with them.
 
I know I am late to the game. I have always had these questions and can never find answers regarding LD shafts. Seems everyone has LD shafts these days. LD (LOW DEFLECTION). What does that mean and more importantly compared to what? Is there any criteria for a shaft to be labeled low deflection? Do any of the makers of low deflection shafts put any test results or claims up? I get it and I think they can really be good for the game. I think one day they will be standard on all cues. I just don't see one maker claiming there's deflects more than another maker. Bob Meucci was the only maker who to my knowledge did test and comparisons. Granted the results are still debatable. How do I decide if I want to by an OB vs a Predator? As far as I know they both just claim to be low deflection but not better than one another. Who is better and why?
 
I know I am late to the game. I have always had these questions and can never find answers regarding LD shafts. Seems everyone has LD shafts these days. LD (LOW DEFLECTION). What does that mean and more importantly compared to what? Is there any criteria for a shaft to be labeled low deflection? Do any of the makers of low deflection shafts put any test results or claims up? I get it and I think they can really be good for the game. I think one day they will be standard on all cues. I just don't see one maker claiming there's deflects more than another maker. Bob Meucci was the only maker who to my knowledge did test and comparisons. Granted the results are still debatable. How do I decide if I want to by an OB vs a Predator? As far as I know they both just claim to be low deflection but not better than one another. Who is better and why?

As in almost all things that have to do with pool cues and your game - there is no "best one" for everybody, the best one is the one you like best. and that you feel improves your game.
So that means you have to try different shafts and try them long enough to get used to them. There are always used LD shafts in the "Wanted/For Sale" section in all kinds of brands and pin sizes, so you shouldn't have a problem trying a few different ones out before you decide which brand you like and want to buy new. If you take care of them, you should be able to resell them for close to your purchase price.
And many manufacturers will let you try them out if you can make it to a show where they are present.
Oh, and I should add that you may come to the conclusion that NONE of them are better for your game than your current setup -no problem with that either.
HTH
Gary
 
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