A little update

[one stroke]

They'd probably tell him about the risks and low probability of success, and I bet someone would be complete A-holes about it, too. But you know what, I think some people would think it was pretty cool that someone would try that, even if the odds were stacked against them. But even so, these examples are not even remotely comparable. SL is not going to get killed or crippled from playijng pool. At most he's going to spend some time doing what he loves. He will of course pay a cost of lost potential income, delayed career path etc. But he is doing what he loves (or loved in this case IDK). He'll aquire skill that he can enjoy his entire life, with some luck. And his odds at getting at least close to a pro level are not at all as bleek as you make it seem, IMO, though I must admit there is no way for me to quantify those odds and I'm far from sure about it. Again, he's talking about playing on the pro-level, not making a living playing pool. And it's not an all or nothing game, either. Even if he doesn't become as good as he hopes, he'll still get a lot better than many naysayers can ever hope to be. That's not nothing in my book.

But you know, go right ahead. I guess you play a valuable role tellling people what they can't do. "Because you've only got our interests at heart."/ "It's important to be realistic." / "I'm just telling it like it is" Or whatever else you are telling yourself. If it weren't for people like you, I wouldn't have done several things that I've allready checked off my list. I just get obsessed with rubbing success in the faces of people like that, even if they'll never acknowledge they are wrong. In the end, though, you've got to do it for yourself, just like SL is doing.

Well it's pretty humbling a man of you statue has gone to such length to single out me and my pretty mundane answers ,, bet you feel pretty good right about now have you broke a 100 yet ,,
You don't want to put odds on his chances cause you don't know lol yet you don't think anyone here is qualified to give that opinion with how many of thousands of members
I think there's plenty of members who have seen players attempt such I know several my self
However since your so educated on the subject why don't you give us the honest answer oh that's right your not ,best you can do is give a pat on the head and tell him what excatly ? I'm dying to hear your educated words of wisdom with your quick keyboard trigger finger discounting anyone else who gives thier " honest opinion " but ride along thinking your the smartest most knoledgeable person in the room even when you know your not and scoff at any reply that ruffles your feathers
But at the end of the day the guy asked a question he got answers from to your dismay pool players collectively with hundreds of yrs of experience whether your almighty self wants to believe it or not is not a concern of mine

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[one stroke]

1. People need to hear the truth whether they want to hear it or not. Half the problems of the world today exist solely because people want to play make believe and pretend like they don't exist instead of just dealing with the truth and being open and frank about them and just dealing with them and solving them. There is way too much stroking of people's feelings these days instead of honesty and dealing with truths and facts like it should be.

2. Don't ask a question if you aren't prepared for people to give what they believe to be honest answers. Not everybody is going to stroke your feelings and tell you what they think you want to hear instead of the truth. Some people are actually going to be honest. So if you are just looking for validation of your own opinion, or think there is a chance you may not like or be able to live with what their answers could be then you shouldn't ask the question.

3. In the case of Sam, there were two separate things going on and I think many people are confusing the two together and failing to see the separation. The first was what he could do to try to become pro level and just about the how difficult it could be and how smart that might be etc. Had Sam simply asked "what is the best approach to be the best player I can possibly be" or "best approach to become pro level if I have the talent" or even "what is the best path to reach pro level" and left it at that then he would have got some positive feel good answers and he would have received some more honest realistic answers and some advice from both sides and that would have been the end of it, just as you received.

But the second issue that was the big deal to many was Sam insisting that he could 100% be a pro level pool player in 5 years if he wanted to and that there was 0% chance he could fail. That was a dumb, naive, arrogant, inability to deal with truths and facts absolutely ridiculous belief and every last single one of us with any pool experience knows it whether we chose to be honest with him or not. That is what people had the bigger issue with and took the exception to and where things went sideways and is why he took so much flack. You didn't get the same tone of response because you didn't make the same ridiculous proclamations and then steadfastly refuse to accept any of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary that was presented to you like he did.[/QUOTE

It simply just can't be that hard to understand yet some just don't get it

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[wahcheck]

Even Shortstop speed may be unattainable

There must be hundreds of shortstops in this world who could beat the pants off most of us, who could not hang with pro-level players.

I also think of the lower echelon of pro players I have seen that have faded into history; the ones that hardly ever won pro tournaments, but finished in the lower brackets for little money. The ones who couldn't beat Earl, Buddy, Mike, Efren, Darren, Mika, and any others of the TOP pros you want to name who regularly won tournaments.

Even those lower echelon pros were at that rarefied level that shortstops couldn't reach. I do believe you have to have a pretty rare talent to be
in that company of pro pool players.

 

[BmoreMoney]

One stroke,we have to remember these folks are from all walks of life, not LIKE US, They have not been thru the suffering we have nor have visited the places we call home. Have to take that into account honestly bro.

 

[BmoreMoney]

There must be hundreds of shortstops in this world who could beat the pants off most of us, who could not hang with pro-level players.

I also think of the lower echelon of pro players I have seen that have faded into history; the ones that hardly ever won pro tournaments, but finished in the lower brackets for little money. The ones who couldn't beat Earl, Buddy, Mike, Efren, Darren, Mika, and any others of the TOP pros you want to name who regularly won tournaments.

Even those lower echelon pros were at that rarefied level that shortstops couldn't reach. I do believe you have to have a pretty rare talent to be
in that company of pro pool players.

To be fair, the vast majority of people that " talk " about this or that truly doesn't really know what anything takes and more often than not they have been outsiders rather than in the know.

 

[Bob Jewett]

...
Here's my post from almost twenty years ago. It makes me cringe a bit but so it goes.

From Thursday, February 26th, 1998 at 10:40:09 GMT to be precise. And posted through a site in Italy!

I see that the first substantive response you got was from Jude Rosenstock, who is still posting. He pointed out that Jeanette Lee also started to play seriously after she turned 20.

It is a subject that keeps coming up, and a lot of late-starters wonder about what chance they have to get really, really good.

I had a student who had read about the 10,000-hour myth (see the book "The Sports Gene" for why I say "myth") and he wanted to set up a training program to see how far he could go with similar effort. He had his own table at home and had gone as far as to bring in a well-known author/instructor for a day or two and had a local coach with whom he had spent a lot of time.

I thought useful areas for us to work on together -- he was going to have to do most of the work himself, of course -- would be:

• Measuring performance
• Designing practice routines
• Acquiring knowledge and fitting it into your game

Our first and only meeting was during a trip I made to the Northeast. It was pretty clear after a half-hour that he had a long, long way to go. He didn't even have standard position plays down like following two rails out of a corner using running english. I have no idea how his previous instructors/coaches spent their time, but evidently none of it involved controlling the cue ball.

I guess my main point is that this guy had no idea what level he played at. I suspect he was thinking high B/low A or some such.

There are lots of ways now to measure pool performance, and I think learning how to do that should be a first priority for anyone who wants to try the intensive training route. It lets you know how quickly you are approaching your goal. It would be really nice if there was an Instant FargoRate app.

 

[one stroke]

One stroke,we have to remember these folks are from all walks of life, not LIKE US, They have not been thru the suffering we have nor have visited the places we call home. Have to take that into account honestly bro.

I know that and I know you surly know many players up your way who have have tried and failed Baltimore area has had a many of pool players very very good that never made pro speed and a few that have hell Tom Zipler got second in the one pocket at the pro one pocket at the Xbo can he beat Henry even ?


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[Tramp Steamer]

Thanks for the reality check:thumbup:

Whew !! Close call..i was beginning to think i play better than i actually do .

We all think that we do, but like Sam found out it's one thing to dream it, quite another to actually do it. It's easy to dream bigger dreams than we can hold on to.
I can remember the time I told my son, "One of these days you'll have children of your own."
He looked at me and said, "So will you!" :thumbup:

 

[BmoreMoney]

From Thursday, February 26th, 1998 at 10:40:09 GMT to be precise. And posted through a site in Italy!

I see that the first substantive response you got was from Jude Rosenstock, who is still posting. He pointed out that Jeanette Lee also started to play seriously after she turned 20.

It is a subject that keeps coming up, and a lot of late-starters wonder about what chance they have to get really, really good.

I had a student who had read about the 10,000-hour myth (see the book "The Sports Gene" for why I say "myth") and he wanted to set up a training program to see how far he could go with similar effort. He had his own table at home and had gone as far as to bring in a well-known author/instructor for a day or two and had a local coach with whom he had spent a lot of time.

I thought useful areas for us to work on together -- he was going to have to do most of the work himself, of course -- would be:

• Measuring performance
• Designing practice routines
• Acquiring knowledge and fitting it into your game

Our first and only meeting was during a trip I made to the Northeast. It was pretty clear after a half-hour that he had a long, long way to go. He didn't even have standard position plays down like following two rails out of a corner using running english. I have no idea how his previous instructors/coaches spent their time, but evidently none of it involved controlling the cue ball.

I guess my main point is that this guy had no idea what level he played at. I suspect he was thinking high B/low A or some such.

There are lots of ways now to measure pool performance, and I think learning how to do that should be a first priority for anyone who wants to try the intensive training route. It lets you know how quickly you are approaching your goal. It would be really nice if there was an Instant FargoRate app.

Maybe I shouldn't say this, maybe not. Nothing against st instructors but all of the top players I KNEW NEVER took lessons. The top players were " tooken " under the wing of a top player or they weren't and became fish. Period. Why did these top players choose to share info???? You tell me. My belief was because they " saw something " above and beyond the rest. That's how I THINK IT WORKS .

 

[BmoreMoney]

We all think that we do, but like Sam found out it's one thing to dream it, quite another to actually do it. It's easy to dream bigger dreams than we can hold on to.
I can remember the time I told my son, "One of these days you'll have children of your own."
He looked at me and said, "So will you!" :thumbup:

Yes and no. As I have clearly stated, once I got to a certain level I had NO MOTIVATION to get any better as I felt I was in the " sweet spot " of the gambling hierarchy

 

[one stroke]

From Thursday, February 26th, 1998 at 10:40:09 GMT to be precise. And posted through a site in Italy!

I see that the first substantive response you got was from Jude Rosenstock, who is still posting. He pointed out that Jeanette Lee also started to play seriously after she turned 20.

It is a subject that keeps coming up, and a lot of late-starters wonder about what chance they have to get really, really good.

I had a student who had read about the 10,000-hour myth (see the book "The Sports Gene" for why I say "myth") and he wanted to set up a training program to see how far he could go with similar effort. He had his own table at home and had gone as far as to bring in a well-known author/instructor for a day or two and had a local coach with whom he had spent a lot of time.

I thought useful areas for us to work on together -- he was going to have to do most of the work himself, of course -- would be:

• Measuring performance
• Designing practice routines
• Acquiring knowledge and fitting it into your game

Our first and only meeting was during a trip I made to the Northeast. It was pretty clear after a half-hour that he had a long, long way to go. He didn't even have standard position plays down like following two rails out of a corner using running english. I have no idea how his previous instructors/coaches spent their time, but evidently none of it involved controlling the cue ball.

I guess my main point is that this guy had no idea what level he played at. I suspect he was thinking high B/low A or some such.

There are lots of ways now to measure pool performance, and I think learning how to do that should be a first priority for anyone who wants to try the intensive training route. It lets you know how quickly you are approaching your goal. It would be really nice if there was an Instant FargoRate app.

Got to love that Fargo prop , actually that is a myth in thier thinking thiers been examples that took way under 10k hours. , thiers been music prodigys that played concert level at kindergarten age ,, there is a golfer who set out to prove the 10 k therory last time I heard he's no where near pro level never mind the level of championship level
The book was trying to say there is no such thing as natural talent but never proved it and few believe it
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[BmoreMoney]

I know that and I know you surly know many players up your way who have have tried and failed Baltimore area has had a many of pool players very very good that never made pro speed and a few that have hell Tom Zipler got second in the one pocket at the pro one pocket at the Xbo can he beat Henry even ?


1

Lol, I was JUST on the phone withe someone from b more talking about that lol - were u on the line????????

 

[Cameron Smith]

Maybe I shouldn't say this, maybe not. Nothing against st instructors but all of the top players I KNEW NEVER took lessons. The top players were " tooken " under the wing of a top player or they weren't and became fish. Period. Why did these top players choose to share info???? You tell me. My belief was because they " saw something " above and beyond the rest. That's how I THINK IT WORKS .

I understand where you are coming from and have certainly noticed that trend. However an instructor or coach who is not only a good teacher but knows how to get a player to a professional standard will always be preferable. The trend we see in pool likely has as much to do with the culture surrounding it as anything.

By way of comparison all or most snooker professionals have coaches and were coached from an early age.

Here is Barry Stark, the coach responsible for Kyren Wilson.
https://youtu.be/LgYJ6oeoTxs

 

[BmoreMoney]

I know that and I know you surly know many players up your way who have have tried and failed Baltimore area has had a many of pool players very very good that never made pro speed and a few that have hell Tom Zipler got second in the one pocket at the pro one pocket at the Xbo can he beat Henry even ?


1

Hey btw, I made a thread about Tommy Z a little while back. I busted his ass out north of Baltimore in one of my RARE sessions about a week before Xpo. In fact, I busted the WHOLE pool room that was betting on him. We both knew we all were going to go to Xpo so we made arrangements to play there. We were all there and I hunted him to play for $2k, aside from the hotel lobby - COULDN'T FIND HIM lol. Never happened. In all honestly TZ plays REAL good and I can't take that away from him and I absolutely congratulate him on the big win at Xpo.. I probably won't win again anyway. But I'll still drag my ass out of bed to give it a try, but this time get everyone together and get some real money together. Hopefully
At some point we will have a rematch - love you Tommy Z, good people.

 

[BmoreMoney]

I should add one half to this equation. Z man plays MUCH better than me and I was receiving a spot lol.

 

[one stroke]

Well it's pretty humbling a man of you statue has gone to such length to single out me and my pretty mundane answers ,, bet you feel pretty good right about now have you broke a 100 yet ,,
You don't want to put odds on his chances cause you don't know lol yet you don't think anyone here is qualified to give that opinion with how many of thousands of members
I think there's plenty of members who have seen players attempt such I know several my self
However since your so educated on the subject why don't you give us the honest answer oh that's right your not ,best you can do is give a pat on the head and tell him what excatly ? I'm dying to hear your educated words of wisdom with your quick keyboard trigger finger discounting anyone else who gives thier " honest opinion " but ride along thinking your the smartest most knoledgeable person in the room even when you know your not and scoff at any reply that ruffles your feathers
But at the end of the day the guy asked a question he got answers from to your dismay pool players collectively with hundreds of yrs of experience whether your almighty self wants to believe it or not is not a concern of mine

1

Hey btw, I made a thread about Tommy Z a little while back. I busted his ass out north of Baltimore in one of my RARE sessions about a week before Xpo. In fact, I busted the WHOLE pool room that was betting on him. We both knew we all were going to go to Xpo so we made arrangements to play there. We were all there and I hunted him to play for $2k, aside from the hotel lobby - COULDN'T FIND HIM lol. Never happened. In all honestly TZ plays REAL good and I can't take that away from him and I absolutely congratulate him on the big win at Xpo.. I probably won't win again anyway. But I'll still drag my ass out of bed to give it a try, but this time get everyone together and get some real money together. Hopefully
At some point we will have a rematch - love you Tommy Z, good people.

Iv yet to beat him but I'm no world beater did get lucky against Toney Long few weeks back on the bar boxes at bank shots got 5-6th like to meet you someday

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[BmoreMoney]

Iv yet to beat him but I'm no world beater did get lucky against Toney Long few weeks back on the bar boxes at bank shots got 5-6th like to meet you someday

1

Lol, I beat Tony at the tournament at Daddys like 5 years ago - not supposed to. Faced him in the finals and apparently I pissued him off, he crushed me lol. Yeah same here, if still around I said the sAmerican thing in your pm'so lol

 

[BmoreMoney]

Iv yet to beat him but I'm no world beater did get lucky against Toney Long few weeks back on the bar boxes at bank shots got 5-6th like to meet you someday

1

Lol by the way, my boy that I was with with the whole Tommy Z thing was Tony'S backer for a long time lol!

 

[one stroke]

Lol by the way, my boy that I was with with the whole Tommy Z thing was Tony'S backer for a long time lol!

Well like I said hope to meet you one day


1

 

[BmoreMoney]

Well like I said hope to meet you one day


1

Same here brother! But honestly I'm like a unocorn now a days, lol that didn't sound good lol. Point being is in haven't been out much, but yeah for sure! I haven't been down your way since like '06???? I wanted a good recommendation for one of the restaurantsame along the beach.