A New Pool game...? Yes... Look inside...

Not for marketing purposes as such. As a player for 30 or so years, I myself have been in a scenario and seen others in this scenario with complicated workarounds.

I am just excited to be able to bring something to the table (pardon the intentional pun) that would even be welcomed by those who at this point are saying no already!

I would like as many of you to be a part of this. It isn't about 1 person.

Let's wait and see?

Jack
Sorry, I'm not buying that. Your original post was 100% trying to build hype about a product which is a fundamental part of marketing. If your primary motive were to solve a problem for players rather than to profit from selling a product you would not be keeping secret what it is you have developed.

Certainly there is nothing wrong with wanting to make a profit from your idea and the time and expense you have incurred in developing it. Nor is there anything wrong with trying to build early interest in your product (provided that you do it in a way that doesn't alienate your prospective market). But at least be honest about what you're doing and why. As the saying goes, "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining."
 
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I'm not irritated by anything, just explaining why your game is likely to fail miserably.

I will never play your game because I won't buy your game. As I said, I live in a sparsely populated area of the states, I would bet that none of the bars will buy your game.

You keep stating that there is some sort of inherent 'issue' or 'problem' with pool. You keep saying that to people who play pool and love it enough to participate in an online forum. This is not a way to win support, it is a way to undermine any good will you might have had. You come on here like a child saying, 'neener neener, I know something you don't know,' basically implying that we are too stupid to see an inherent flaw that has been present from the beginning.

It's the same with all of the garbage rules and gadgets that keep popping up.

Sardo rack because the rack isn't tight enough, rack templates because the rack isn't tight enough. Guess what? I think a perfect rack is a problem--there should be more randomness to the break. I'll grant that it keeps the cheating rack mechanics at bay, but I'm not sure which is worse--a rack mechanic or a piece of equipment that is left on the table, a direct violation of the rules I learned on. I won't use a template rack.

Break from the box--this rule came about because of the rack templates, which goes to prove that the templates and the 'improvement' they offer is a problem.

It's fine that you feel like your fifty-quid idea requires NDAs, contracts, and barristers. I'm just saying that it undermines your marketing (which you seem to believe you know a lot about) to tease without any substance. This whole campaign you are launching reminds me of 25years ago when the inventor of the Segue had his whole 'It's coming' campaign. Turned out that, 'It' was underwhelming and Segue never became anything more than a novelty, certainly not the revolution that we were expecting. I think this forum's response is perfect evidence that you made a major misstep--I haven't seen anyone react positively, and you have probably alienated some who might have.

I have no dog in this fight. I don't care if you succeed or not, but I know enough to see when you are making strategic errors.
That's your opinion and that's fine. What state are you in if I may ask?

But what if you do like the game and can see the enjoyment in it? Did you take up 8ball or 9ball and swear never to play the other?

Never said there was a "problem" with pool as such. It is perfectly great for what we know it to be and how we play it, but there is a problem when it comes to a certain scenario which we have developed a "fix" for. That's all. Nothing complicated. Nothing fancy. But a fun concept, one that we have also developed to be a competitive concept, with multiple formats from 1 set of balls.

If 21 out of 27 clubs we spoke to with an average of 8 tables have committed to ordering 112 sets, why would that not give us faith that it could go on to be a success? If it were 5 sets total from 27, that is still around 22% ordering 1 set, with 20,000+ settings worldwide with 1 or more table, potentially 4-5k sets.

We have a database of over 10,500 pool, snooker and sports bars/clubs worldwide with 1 or more tables and a team working on marketing content currently to include the website and socials.

If one organisation that organises events (many televised) has given it the thumbs up pending checks on the balls post-production, why would we not have more faith?

If you think I have come on here with a "neer neer I know something you don't know" attitude, which isn't the case. Have you read all the "it will never work" comments based on no knowledge of what the concept is yet? Is it justified in any way?

No one can categorically say it won't work. You can say "it will unlikely work if past history of sets launching and failing is anything to go by". But to eliminate and dismiss at this point is a bit harsh.

30+ years since I first picked up a cue. This issue I have experienced first hand and continue to. You will have too, and you will have likely seen it occur.

There have been 2 or 3 who welcome new ideas and will reserve judgement until we reveal. That is the attitude to have, a supportive, open-minded one.

You can stick to 8ball or 9ball, no problem. That is your choice. We aren't saying scrap it, play our game.

We're saying if you want to try something a little different, or open to, then please stay tuned. If not, this probably isn't a thread for you.

It won't be for everyone, granted. Not expecting every club or player who owns their own sets to buy a set. It'll be your own choice.

At this point, due to others involved, processes we still have to go through, we cannot say "this is our concept, these are our balls, these are the rules...". If we believe there to be a benefit in disclosing anything to a party, we would, in a way that protects us for the time being.

If you understand business at all and product development, you would understand and appreciate that.

A "fifty quid" idea? The price of the lowest grade set does not determine the value of a product or business.

A lot of time, money and resources has gone into this.

So why not consider it COULD be something half decent and wait and see?
 
Well, thankfully it seems team play/bonus ball is far from what we have developed! ...
For the Bonus Ball part, I think your project is far closer than you imagine.

Bonus Ball was introduced as a new game and ball set at the 1999 BCA Trade Show (IIRC). Manning the Bonus Ball booth were Paul Potier and Mike Massey. There was no team concept, it was just a new game.

The people who were behind Bonus Ball seemed to have considerable resources to the extent that they could get balls made by Aramith (I believe) and have a booth at the Trade Show. The sets were nicely packaged. As I recall, I bought one for $99. It included rules and scoresheets. I have never played a game of Bonus Ball.

It was only much later that BB reappeared as a TV production and team sport.

Some people are fascinated by novelty and that will get a few sales for almost anything. The vast majority of pool players just play whatever games their friends are playing with whatever balls happen to be on the table. I think it's interesting that the Ultimate Pool people did not try to make the US events use the reds and yellows that are standard in England.
 
For the bonus ball part, I think your project is far closer than you imagine.

Bonus ball was introduced as a new game and ball set at the 1999 BCA Trade Show (IIRC). Manning the Bonus Ball booth were Paul Potier and Mike Massey. There was no team concept, it was just a new game.

The people who were behind Bonus Ball seemed to have considerable resources to the extent that they could get balls made by Aramith (I believe) and have a booth at the Trade Show. The sets were nicely packaged. As I recall, I bought one for $99. It included rules and scoresheets. I have never played a game of Bonus Ball.

It was only much later that BB reappeared as a TV production and team sport.

Some people are fascinated by novelty and that will get a few sales for almost anything. The vast majority of pool players just play whatever games their friends are playing with whatever balls happen to be on the table. I think it's interesting that the Ultimate Pool people did not try to make the US events use the reds and yellows that are standard in England.
I wouldn't say our product is close to BB. What makes you think it is other than not being a team game and a different set of balls?

We only went to Aramith initially due to needing phenolic resin balls, to be told they are too busy with demand for other products. No problem. We won't pay more to jump the queue. That doesn't make for good business.

Dynaspheres want 1500 min order per size set and grade. That cannot be justified and is not necessary. The MOQ is just 200 sets per size where we are having ours produced. Far more reasonable, right?

We have now found a phenolic resin ball manufacturer and will be working with them. They understand the requirements for the tournament/pro grade balls - size, weight and material, plus what is required as a feature for televised competition. One thing Dynaspheres actually forgot, or didn't realise, what required on some of their sets.

We can get pallets from China to US and Australia with shipping equating to less than £1.50 a set in 2-3 weeks from leaving port and about £2.50 a set in 5-7 weeks to Germany for a central european distribution hub. Although the hub will be about 30sqm which is all that is required for a dozen or so pallets of 120-180 sets.
 
Sorry, I'm not buying that. Your original post was 100% trying to build hype about a product which is a fundamental part of marketing. If your primary motive were to solve a problem for players rather than to profit from selling a product you would not be keeping secret what it is you have developed.

Certainly there is nothing wrong with wanting to make a profit from your idea and the time and expense you have incurred in developing it. Nor is there anything wrong with trying to build early interest in your product (provided that you do it in a way that doesn't alienate your prospective market). But at least be honest about what you're doing and why. As the saying goes, "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining."
A fundamental part of marketing is trying to build up some hype before the reveal.

If we said "this is what it is, this is how we have fixed it", it isn't something you could go and play tomorrow with what is available without perhap taking balls from various sets to play a makeshift version at best.

It isn't a problem for pool players. It's a problem in a scenario which has been developed into both a fun and competitive way of playing.
 
Met a friend whom rarely/never plays. I asked if he would be willing to play a different game than 8 or 9 ball. He agreed. I racked the balls and told him to break, if he made any ball continue shooting any ball, in any order, slop counts, and we'll leave the last ball and cue ball where they stop. The remaining 14 get re-racked and we continue. I scored to 100 while we started him at 20. He's improved to 25-30 and we have a great time while confusing the crap out of everyone else around us.

So, what did I create? 14-1 APA style! Making a game that is easy to approach, easy to score, and is fun I think will be the measure of your success. I wish you the best of luck, but i'll keep my $1.
 
Yes. Around 1908 Brunswick introduced a game called BBC Co Pocket Billiards. I think they wanted to sell special ball sets. A few very clever players figured out how to use regular ball sets. Here is the start of the rules from the 1914 Brunswick rule book.

View attachment 815591

The whole rule book is available here as item 25:


definitely qualifies as popular, lol. but are we sure the game didn't exist before the yellows and reds?
 
Met a friend whom rarely/never plays. I asked if he would be willing to play a different game than 8 or 9 ball. He agreed. I racked the balls and told him to break, if he made any ball continue shooting any ball, in any order, slop counts, and we'll leave the last ball and cue ball where they stop. The remaining 14 get re-racked and we continue. I scored to 100 while we started him at 20. He's improved to 25-30 and we have a great time while confusing the crap out of everyone else around us.

So, what did I create? 14-1 APA style! Making a game that is easy to approach, easy to score, and is fun I think will be the measure of your success. I wish you the best of luck, but i'll keep my $1.
You haven't read the post(s).

It's £1, not $1.

It's also a reservation only. You get it back upon pre-ordering or when the crowdfunding period ends.

The reservation just gives you rewards etc.

Great, you played a game using a set of balls you had available.

But it's not the scenario we have a fix to.

Anyway, no problem, and all the best!
 
i know, balls that are sensitive to the desires and wishes of the players

and respond to the psychic energies that are directed towards them

therefore rewarding the greater hopes and dreams of the one most deserving and best suited for success
Pool balls are already like this, it's just they are assholes that like to see you fail. ;)
 
Good afternoon, Jack.

Here’s wishing you every possible fortune, dear fellow.

Designing unique ball sets; overcoming inevitable problems during casting; lengthy delays and complicated logistics with foreign shipping and customs; before eventually delivering a desirable product to market is all difficult, stressful and one’s path is strewn with many expensive pitfalls.

I speak from experience, sir, so offer my sincere admiration and approbation for your venture and hope everything proves to be a tremendous success.

Good luck!
 
Good afternoon, Jack.

Here’s wishing you every possible success, dear fellow.

Designing unique ball sets; overcoming inevitable problems during casting; lengthy delays and complicated logistics with foreign shipping and customs; before eventually delivering a desirable product to market is all difficult, stressful and one’s path is strewn with many expensive pitfalls.

I speak from experience, sir, so offer my sincere admiration and approbation for your venture and hope everything proves to be a tremendous success.

Good luck!
Thank you for your reply, much appreciated.

Myself and 2 others in the team have experience in product development, marketing, sales, import/export, branding and design.

The manufacturer already makes phenolic resin balls, they are aware of the criteria and we have full faith in them. We also have a contact who will be regularly on site for quality control.

We have customs clearance agents lined up, storage and fulfilment in place.

Plus a database of 10k+ settings with 1 or more pool/snooker table.

Additionally a dozen Youtube, TikTok and Instagram users with a combined 2 million followers who are awaiting more info, open to assisting in collaborating and creating content for us and using their channels to increase sales, with a kickback for them.

There may be obstacles, but we are as prepared as we can be.

Stay tuned!

Jack
 
It's just an image. What makes it interesting to you?

Jack
it’s so normal, a yellow one ball

but seriously, jokes aside, may your new games be a big success and your ideas solve the problems that need fixing!

quick question, do the balls have anything to do with easter eggs, or the easter bunny?
 
If you have the time, Jack, there are many knowledgeable and interesting folks on this forum’s Pool Ball Collecting thread (players, collectors, billiard industry experts, etc) who have all offered their personal views on what does (or does not) make a good ball set.

Might be worth a read, sir. It certainly helped me.
 
That's your opinion and that's fine. What state are you in if I may ask?

But what if you do like the game and can see the enjoyment in it? Did you take up 8ball or 9ball and swear never to play the other?

Never said there was a "problem" with pool as such. It is perfectly great for what we know it to be and how we play it, but there is a problem when it comes to a certain scenario which we have developed a "fix" for. That's all. Nothing complicated. Nothing fancy. But a fun concept, one that we have also developed to be a competitive concept, with multiple formats from 1 set of balls.

If 21 out of 27 clubs we spoke to with an average of 8 tables have committed to ordering 112 sets, why would that not give us faith that it could go on to be a success? If it were 5 sets total from 27, that is still around 22% ordering 1 set, with 20,000+ settings worldwide with 1 or more table, potentially 4-5k sets.

We have a database of over 10,500 pool, snooker and sports bars/clubs worldwide with 1 or more tables and a team working on marketing content currently to include the website and socials.

If one organisation that organises events (many televised) has given it the thumbs up pending checks on the balls post-production, why would we not have more faith?

If you think I have come on here with a "neer neer I know something you don't know" attitude, which isn't the case. Have you read all the "it will never work" comments based on no knowledge of what the concept is yet? Is it justified in any way?

No one can categorically say it won't work. You can say "it will unlikely work if past history of sets launching and failing is anything to go by". But to eliminate and dismiss at this point is a bit harsh.

30+ years since I first picked up a cue. This issue I have experienced first hand and continue to. You will have too, and you will have likely seen it occur.

There have been 2 or 3 who welcome new ideas and will reserve judgement until we reveal. That is the attitude to have, a supportive, open-minded one.

You can stick to 8ball or 9ball, no problem. That is your choice. We aren't saying scrap it, play our game.

We're saying if you want to try something a little different, or open to, then please stay tuned. If not, this probably isn't a thread for you.

It won't be for everyone, granted. Not expecting every club or player who owns their own sets to buy a set. It'll be your own choice.

At this point, due to others involved, processes we still have to go through, we cannot say "this is our concept, these are our balls, these are the rules...". If we believe there to be a benefit in disclosing anything to a party, we would, in a way that protects us for the time being.

If you understand business at all and product development, you would understand and appreciate that.

A "fifty quid" idea? The price of the lowest grade set does not determine the value of a product or business.

A lot of time, money and resources has gone into this.

So why not consider it COULD be something half decent and wait and see?

I'm in Montana. It appears you are in UK? I can say that the culture in the UK, with their black ball game would likely be much more open to a new game.

In MT, I can't think of more than several public pool halls. If you take away the university pool rooms in Bozeman and Missoula (which are kinda iffy on whether they let non-students play), there are almost no tables that are not coin operated. I just don't see any bars replacing their balls with a new set.

That brings up another problem. Are you making your balls to work with valley coin-op and diamond smart tables? If not, how do you propose to use your new balls to play your new games in coin-op situations?

Finally, you keep telling me that there is nothing wrong with how pool is currently played. You then say that there is a flaw due to pool that doesn't relate to playing pool. Then you tell us that you invented new games and new balls to solve this problem. Taken all together I fail to see how all three can be true at the same time. Maybe that is because I am an engineer and survive on logic, not a salesman who survives on commission.
 
If you have the time, Jack, there are many knowledgeable and interesting folks on this forum’s Pool Ball Collecting thread (players, collectors, billiard industry experts, etc) who have all offered their personal views on what does (or does not) make a good ball set.

Might be worth a read, sir. It certainly helped me.
Appreciate that, but we have finalised everything and done a lot of research. We have kept it simple. Nothing drastic, nothing you'll be disgusted by. No silly colours. Very, very simple. Nothing that will confuse or have you reaching for a paper bag to regurgitate your last meal into 😃
 
definitely qualifies as popular, lol. but are we sure the game didn't exist before the yellows and reds?
Well, there were many games before 1900. Most of them are not played today. In some cases the style of billiard table hasn't been made for a few centuries. It's hard to prove that eight ball or a close cousin was not played in Mort's place in Chicago in 1897.
 
... The manufacturer already makes phenolic resin balls, they are aware of the criteria and we have full faith in them. We also have a contact who will be regularly on site for quality control. ...
The way you have phrased that begs the question:

Do they currently make billiard balls?
 
The biggest problem with new inventions is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. If nobody on a billiards forum can even think of what the "problem" could be, maybe the problem doesn't exist. Is this going to be the Peanut Butter Pump of Pool Kickstarters?

Taken all together I fail to see how all three can be true at the same time.

And apparently the balls are very simple, nothing drastic, but somehow it's almost impossible to play with regular balls. But I guess they're just solid balls with numbers. And you can makeshift it by combining sets of regular balls? Also you can play with a deck of cards? Then there's "a very basic way, a points scoring option, a brutal tactical version" which sounds like Bonus Ball's 'take one thing from every game" approach. And no matter how you play, it all solves the same problem.
 
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