A.P.A. guys?
- Thread starter Shaky1
- Start date
All interesting posts. Here is my take on this. Two Saturdays ago, we played for an opportunity to go to City's. Arrived about an hour after the match began. With this team, in this league, I've always played last. We had already played our first match and lost. The second was seriously in doubt. Suddenly, we had an opportunity to win. Cue ball in hand with two balls left on the table. Our player called a time out to be absolutely sure what to do. Advised him the KISS principle was the best route. Helped him (SL3) line up the shot so the cue ball would move the least amount possible and stepped back. Watched as he suddenly changed where he was aiming. Missed the ball and of course lost the match. Not going to discuss why he changed his aim. Really not important.
Now down two to zero, our captain needed to choose the next player. We had a four, a six and myself a seven left. Captain (a four) wanted me to play to save the match. Told her she should play and they put up their five. If she won, we would have a six and a seven to play their remaining three and four. I like our odds. A lot. Anyway she lost on the hill. In all the games she lost, she had an opportunity to win each game with shots on the winning eight ball.
If she put me up, they would have put up their three. We then would have still been at a disadvantage. As I'm still relatively new to APA, which decision was correct? Have me win the one match and lose the next or play to win the entire match? Not sure if my skin is thin or not so go easy on me.
Lyn
Now down two to zero, our captain needed to choose the next player. We had a four, a six and myself a seven left. Captain (a four) wanted me to play to save the match. Told her she should play and they put up their five. If she won, we would have a six and a seven to play their remaining three and four. I like our odds. A lot. Anyway she lost on the hill. In all the games she lost, she had an opportunity to win each game with shots on the winning eight ball.
If she put me up, they would have put up their three. We then would have still been at a disadvantage. As I'm still relatively new to APA, which decision was correct? Have me win the one match and lose the next or play to win the entire match? Not sure if my skin is thin or not so go easy on me.
Lyn
Teams make that mistake all the time, thinking "we don't want to go out 3-0" instead of "we're down 2-0, what gives us the best chance of winning from here." The answers are usually not the same, especially when your team has to put up 4th. In that situation, you usually have to hold your two most flexible players for the last two matches.
Sounds like you gave her solid advice. It also sounds like it all but worked out, i.e., she was in position to win all her games. Were I the other team captain and you had gone up in that situation, I would have done exactly what you said, i.e., put up the weakest remaining player while keeping my two best players back to win one of the remaining two. When you're down 2 - 0 and having to put up, you're in a tough situation any way you cut it.
You were right. You still needed to win 3 matches, it doesn't matter which order. You lined up the match ups the best way possible, and she was right there. Where would your team have been had you played the three? Tougher shape.
Normal nights, We try to strategize it based on who the opponent puts up. Basically we assume our 4 is better than their 4 etc... and try mostly even matches, no gimmicks like a 2 vs. a 7.
If it's our turn to put up first, we just put up a midlevel player, usually a 5 with the thinking that there is no good matchup the opponents can come up with.
If we just pick several players in a row, and it's important... I believe momentum matters a lot. Don't open on a loss. Put up maybe your 2nd best for the first match, save your best to try to bail you out at the end if needed.
If it's our turn to put up first, we just put up a midlevel player, usually a 5 with the thinking that there is no good matchup the opponents can come up with.
If we just pick several players in a row, and it's important... I believe momentum matters a lot. Don't open on a loss. Put up maybe your 2nd best for the first match, save your best to try to bail you out at the end if needed.
Completely useless information,,,,,,,, name an organization that brings more new players in to pool than APA please!
I disagree. When I am running a team during weekly play, no player sits 2 weeks in a row (unless one of the weeks is a no show) my goal being a balanced number of plays for everyone. We are a team.
Because we are on a team we are all on the same page (ideally) so when playoffs come everyone on the team is focused on advancing to the next round. I keep track of who plays, who they played and what the outcome was for every week of league, going back as long as the team existed. I use this history to decide who plays in a playoff match, and when we encounter teams and players we've never seen it's a gut thing.
I did make sure that everyone on the team got at least 1 match when we did make it to Vegas.
I disagree. When I am running a team during weekly play, no player sits 2 weeks in a row (unless one of the weeks is a no show) my goal being a balanced number of plays for everyone. We are a team.
Because we are on a team we are all on the same page (ideally) so when playoffs come everyone on the team is focused on advancing to the next round. I keep track of who plays, who they played and what the outcome was for every week of league, going back as long as the team existed. I use this history to decide who plays in a playoff match, and when we encounter teams and players we've never seen it's a gut thing.
I did make sure that everyone on the team got at least 1 match when we did make it to Vegas.
I'm pretty much talking about the first round. A friends team was up 2-0 and put in 2 weaker players that lost. He went last and lost. The team quit!
Some interesting information. I totally agree that win percentage should drive a lot of decisions on who is intended on playing. I think there should be a plan of who is going to play to minimize the decision making.
Very important also is to understand who is best to play as an opener, and a closer. I would like to see the data of wins when the first match is won. Momentum can really be significant and by there way there is one assumption that must be made.
Anyone you are going to play has to be very capable of winning a match against any 3, 4, 5. If your team doesn't have that type of capability, it is just a matter of time before elimination occurs.
If winning the match depends exclusively on the match-ups being perfect, that is a recipe for disaster. All skill levels need to be able to beat someone +2 skill levels by being patient, keeping the table "complicated" and know their capabilities and play accordingly.
Good Luck!
Very important also is to understand who is best to play as an opener, and a closer. I would like to see the data of wins when the first match is won. Momentum can really be significant and by there way there is one assumption that must be made.
Anyone you are going to play has to be very capable of winning a match against any 3, 4, 5. If your team doesn't have that type of capability, it is just a matter of time before elimination occurs.
If winning the match depends exclusively on the match-ups being perfect, that is a recipe for disaster. All skill levels need to be able to beat someone +2 skill levels by being patient, keeping the table "complicated" and know their capabilities and play accordingly.
Good Luck!
Also, we don't go by winning percentages, at least not much. We know who the better players are. Sometimes a players winning percentage during a session is affected by who they have to play, especially if they have to "play up" a lot.
Conversely, I'm third highest rated in both 8 and 9 this session in the entire division, but I played even or down most of the session. I'm doing well, but i'm not even the 4th best player on my team, (my 9-ball team....Probly 3rd best on the 8-ball team) tho I can hang with any of them other than our 7.
That also speaks to style of play as well. There are some players who hate to play down, and have to spot games/balls. Gets into their heads. Similarly, some folks relish playing up, while others get pysched out. It all comes down to knowing your players, and putting them into the right spots.
Conversely, I'm third highest rated in both 8 and 9 this session in the entire division, but I played even or down most of the session. I'm doing well, but i'm not even the 4th best player on my team, (my 9-ball team....Probly 3rd best on the 8-ball team) tho I can hang with any of them other than our 7.
That also speaks to style of play as well. There are some players who hate to play down, and have to spot games/balls. Gets into their heads. Similarly, some folks relish playing up, while others get pysched out. It all comes down to knowing your players, and putting them into the right spots.
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OK, I will concede the percentage statement but the concept is still the same. The team knows who is playing well (within their skill level).
As far as the theory of putting up your best 3 or 4 against a 7. Save that player, seriously. If that player has any value in the match then do not waste them on a 7, or a very strong 6. The handicap system just doesn't do well for the extremes (2s and 3s vs 6s and 7s).
9 ball on the other hand is low skilled friendly since you don't have to pocket the money ball to win the match. A "good 1 or 2" probably (although I have no data to prove this statement) has the advantage over any other skill level. Especially if they have the ability to lag well and make balls on the first break.
As far as the theory of putting up your best 3 or 4 against a 7. Save that player, seriously. If that player has any value in the match then do not waste them on a 7, or a very strong 6. The handicap system just doesn't do well for the extremes (2s and 3s vs 6s and 7s).
9 ball on the other hand is low skilled friendly since you don't have to pocket the money ball to win the match. A "good 1 or 2" probably (although I have no data to prove this statement) has the advantage over any other skill level. Especially if they have the ability to lag well and make balls on the first break.
Good insight!
I like a strong 4 in 9-ball. They can put a scare into higher level players, cuz they can run some balls and understand defense, yet only have to go to 31 so if they're upgainst a lower skill level player its not as crazy.
Very true. Very true.
We're fortunate that way, even though we pretty much all enjoy tipping a few, none of the players on my teams get too goofy till later. There sure are some on other teams that bear watching.
(There is strategy in that, too. If you're playing a team that has a player who will get too lubricated too soon, use that to your advantage in choosing players, and try to keep them from playing until later.)