A "questervation"..........

tksix

tksix

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I was going to ask the "question" but I know the answer, so it is really an "observation" I guess?! But would like input.

I have been practicing quite a bit of 14.1, high run 66. Typically in the high 30's every time I practice. Not terrible, not great. I have been documenting my progress, and mistakes. I play on a GCII at home with tightened pockets 4.25".

Go to league and practice on GCIV with standard buckets. In 5 innings I have 2 runs above 40...........one at 50 one at 46. Bad cloth, dirty balls etc.....

What does it all mean?!? Open my pockets up at home and hit 100?

Mike
 
tksix said:
So I was going to ask the "question" but I know the answer, so it is really an "observation" I guess?! But would like input.

I have been practicing quite a bit of 14.1, high run 66. Typically in the high 30's every time I practice. Not terrible, not great. I have been documenting my progress, and mistakes. I play on a GCII at home with tightened pockets 4.25".

Go to league and practice on GCIV with standard buckets. In 5 innings I have 2 runs above 40...........one at 50 one at 46. Bad cloth, dirty balls etc.....

What does it all mean?!? Open my pockets up at home and hit 100?

Mike
Click to expand...

14.1 is not meant to be played on 4.25 inch pockets. Last years 14.1 World Championships were played on standard Gold Crown IV's with new cloth. More high runs than the year before when Diamonds were used.
Still only 1 run of 150, about 7 or so over 100.

So if a high run in 14.1 is important to you I would say open up your pockets. 66 on 4.25 pockets gives you a very good chance to run 100 on standard pockets. Example: Schmidt 294 on a Diamond, 403 on a GC, however Corey Deuel's high run is on a Diamond, go figure.

Bill
 
Yeah I am regularly running high 20's to low 30's on my diamond. I feel I would have already broken 50 if I had a gold crown. I honestly think the tighter pockets are good for my game. I have to hit where the facing and the leather touch on any shot that I am shooting at a pocket facing. Its definitely frustrating but when I played on a gold crown a few weeks ago, I broke my high run of 41 and ran a 44 within like 5 innings. So you might not get that high run on your home table, but all that practice on that table will surprise you when you play on 5 inch pockets.
 
sausage said:
pool period is not meant to be played on 4.25" pockets.
Click to expand...

True. But not 5" either (for a corner pocket). Here's the equipment spec. from the WPA:

The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth.

Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 [12.7 cm] and 5.125 inches [13.0175 cm]
*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ½ inch [1.27 cm] wider than
the mouth of the corner pocket.
​
 
I have no idea if tight pockets really jump up your game a lot or not. Using different parts of the pocket (if you have the accuracy to do so) is a big part of pool and helps in 14.1. And I'm sure we've all seen runs end when someone falls a little straight on the breakshot and either crushes it and misses or makes it and gets stuck in the pile due to lack of momentum on the CB.

I think the theory behind tight pockets is "I will miss more and have less fun now, but I'll get really accurate and shoot like a pro later and then I'll have a lot more fun"... but honestly I dunno that it really happens like that. You could go your whole life shooting on 4.25's, never go pro, and feel miserable and pissed every time a ball rattles.
 
I have always been under the impression that practicing on tight pockets helps your game. It definitely builds confidence in 8-ball or 9-ball, but running racks in 14.1 becomes difficult and frustrating. Brushing the rail on the way into the corner can end your run....................which is not right.

I really am thinking of having them corrected to 4.5".

Mike
 
4.5 is good, not to tough but tough enough. With new cloth you can brush the rail going in on 4.5 inch pockets.
 
Imo it is also a good challenge to train on tight pockets- as long they are *fair*- the balls have to go *down* if they were played correctly-that s it. But too hard can steal often your fun :p
Just do, what is comfortable for you bro- ^^

a friend has a dynamic 2 with horrible tight pockets- but if you play the ball for example, which is frozen on the rail with high speed, it still goes down...if it was played correctly:)


have fun<--important^^

lg
Ingo
 
Corey Deuel's high run?

BTW Marop you mentioned Corey's high run is made on a diamond but how long was the run?
 
CreeDo said:
I have no idea if tight pockets really jump up your game a lot or not. Using different parts of the pocket (if you have the accuracy to do so) is a big part of pool and helps in 14.1. And I'm sure we've all seen runs end when someone falls a little straight on the breakshot and either crushes it and misses or makes it and gets stuck in the pile due to lack of momentum on the CB.

I think the theory behind tight pockets is "I will miss more and have less fun now, but I'll get really accurate and shoot like a pro later and then I'll have a lot more fun"... but honestly I dunno that it really happens like that. You could go your whole life shooting on 4.25's, never go pro, and feel miserable and pissed every time a ball rattles.
Click to expand...

These are all good points. I owned a GCI for twenty years and have now had a Diamond for about 12 years. I bought the Diamond as a pro cut (4.5 corner, 4.875 side). At 4.875", the side pockets literally changed the game. In short, ridiculous. I ended up sending the rails back to the factory and had them re-set to 4.625 corner and 5.125 side. The table now plays fair but still much more challenging than the GC. Below are my own observations:


> it is inconclusive as to whether or not a tighter table improves one's skill level.
> playing any game, especially 14.1, the Diamond is more challenging.
> the challenge factor of the Diamond is especially pronounced when speed of stroke increases for balls close to the rails (think secondary breaks). I wish I had a dime for every time this factor has ended an inning.
> my runs at the Diamond have never equalled those on the GC nor has my consistency.
> I did play on a GC in Detroit last summer and my pocketing was very strong. But, shooting straight is but one facet of our game.
> the Diamond can introduce a level of frustration if one takes the difference too seriously.
> a run of 40 or 50 on the Diamond is cause for an 'at-a-boy'.
> concentration is heightened on the Diamond; any shot is missable.
 
very good points rickadee. I think the diamond is a great table for 9, 10 ball and one hole. For straight pool its really tough.
 
GREAT points.........................I find it funny how we always have to qualify accomplishments in pool. Well he ran 85 but it was on table 7, and that table has buckets, and his favorite music was playing, etc.............LOL!

It would be nice if we had a standard pocket..........I like that Diamond has done that.

I am not sure what the answers are.................but I think when it is time to recover my table, I will have someone do something with the pockets.

Maybe 7" buckets, with grooves that lead to the hole...................99 here I come.

Mike
 
I got to play on probably the only diamond in the state last night and was reminded on how much it makes me feel like a C-player. A couple and friends and I were playing, all of us are solid players, and the diamond makes us look like clowns.

For me, this just doesn't feel like really fair pool. For high level pros, where they can drill in every ball they look at, maybe it's a necessity to keep things interesting. They already make literally 99% of what they shoot it. For those of us who can miss balls, the diamond can take a simple rack of 9 ball and turn it into a three or four inning comedy of errors.

I feel like a sissy every time I back away from the diamond, but we moved to a different table and had more fun. Maybe that's bad for my pool game, and maybe if I had it at home and spent 4 hours a day on it, I'd jump up a level.

All I know is there's a reason the vast majority of the tables have come with pockets of a certain size for many many years. That size makes the game playable the way it was meant to be played.
 
CreeDo said:
I got to play on probably the only diamond in the state last night and was reminded on how much it makes me feel like a C-player. A couple and friends and I were playing, all of us are solid players, and the diamond makes us look like clowns.

For me, this just doesn't feel like really fair pool. For high level pros, where they can drill in every ball they look at, maybe it's a necessity to keep things interesting. They already make literally 99% of what they shoot it. For those of us who can miss balls, the diamond can take a simple rack of 9 ball and turn it into a three or four inning comedy of errors.

I feel like a sissy every time I back away from the diamond, but we moved to a different table and had more fun. Maybe that's bad for my pool game, and maybe if I had it at home and spent 4 hours a day on it, I'd jump up a level.

All I know is there's a reason the vast majority of the tables have come with pockets of a certain size for many many years. That size makes the game playable the way it was meant to be played.
Click to expand...

I think it really depends on your motivation for hard work and how good do you want to get. Personally, I want to be one of the few pros that still has a career in something, thats my dream. So thats why I spent the $$$ to get a diamond pro am. I spend any where from 1:30 to 4 hours on it daily. Maybe on day a week I will take a day off from practicing. So tighter pockets are a must if you want to be able to compete with A, AA, Shortstops, and Pros. Otherwise your game will always fall to crap when you play on tighter tables.
 
center pocket said:
I think it really depends on your motivation for hard work and how good do you want to get. Personally, I want to be one of the few pros that still has a career in something, thats my dream. So thats why I spent the $$$ to get a diamond pro am. I spend any where from 1:30 to 4 hours on it daily. Maybe on day a week I will take a day off from practicing. So tighter pockets are a must if you want to be able to compete with A, AA, Shortstops, and Pros. Otherwise your game will always fall to crap when you play on tighter tables.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. So you think whatever lessons I get, or work I do, I'm no threat to jump to A or above without the tight pockets?
 
No, you can jump to an A if you adjust well to tight pockets. You have to know what you can and cant get away with on tight pockets to play on those tables well. Look at Jesse Bowman, he is a bar table master but plays great on big tight tables too. Can everyone be like Jesse? No. So in order for us normal people to play well on any table, its best to practice on a tight table. That sir, does make sense!
 
Well unfortunately, here in California, especially if a room has gold crowns, most of the pockets here are 4in and 4.5 for the side pockets. Straight pool becomes more of a safety match more so than a ball making match. I had my home table setup at 4.25 with Diamond cut dimensions. My high run so far is 64 balls on it. I guess if Oscar Dominguez can run a 100+ on 3.5 in pockets 4in pockets seem like buckets to him.
 
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