A Question for the Real Instructors who are on the Forum

[pooltchr]

If you say so, but when I was in the Military before the PC World. Our D.I.'s seem to get their point across to everyone in our platoon. Yes they were trained as D.I's and the training was very good , and not P.C., Fuzzy Wuzzy.

I can assure you that if I treated my students the way I was treated in basic training, my success rate would be far less than it is today.

But, as someone else pointed out, our job is really the easy part. We present the information. The students have to take it to heart, and then go out and work to apply it to their game.

We can't really teach anyone to play pool...but we can teach them how to LEARN to play pool. We give them a road map, but they still have to do the driving.

I think the SPF instructors provide a damn good road map. Some of us even add a little GPS!

Steve

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[Mark Avlon]

I recently did a seminar to a group of 15 older people on creative photography. I spent the best part of an hour explaining the one week assignment to be completed before our next class.

At the end of the class I handed each student a blank piece of 8-1/2” x 11” White Copy Paper.

I told each student this is your “subject”, you have one week to do something creative with it.

At the next meeting of the original 15, 11 returned. 8 had done something with the blank piece of 8-1/2” x 11” White Copy Paper.

One did something that was creative, the others failed. I told they why, and gave they ideas for other self assignments.

Apparently I was only able to communicate with one student, and I think half the class was there to kill time.

Are you a poor instructor, if they were simply killing time?


There are two things that determine the student’s success. The first is the effectiveness of the instructor. The other is the student and their determination, not desire, to improve. All players have the desire to improve. Wanting something doesn’t make it happen. It takes a determined and motivated student to build success with what they have learned.

Learning is the first step and the easiest. Developing skills is much more difficult. It requires effective practice over time. Most players find it tough to practice. They would rather play.

I can correct a player’s stroking errors and help them develop their mechanics and shooting process, but if they do not practice them effectively, they usually regress to their old habits. Some old habits die hard and a student may not have the determination necessary to kick them through frequent practice over an extended period of time.

I can teach a player to control the path of the cue ball, but they will not have developed the accuracy and consistency necessary for top level performance by the end of the class. That will only come through effective practice.

I provide my students drills that target the things they learn that if used, will develop accurate and consistent skills. I also teach them how to practice effectively. When they leave class, they are motivated, but few follow through and practice effectively. I have an open door for all of my students to answer questions and help them with problems related to what I’ve taught them.

Another important point is that there is a lot to learn and master in order to be a top player. Mechanics are the foundation. Cue ball control comes next, followed by how to play the game. Many students want to learn cue ball control before they can accurately stroke the cue. I could teach them how to control the cue ball, but how could they develop consistent skills?

Finding a good instructor isn’t difficult or risky. Simply talk to them to get a feel if you can work together and what you will learn so you know what to expect. Having accurate expectations is important. Take the lesson, and chances are you won’t be disappointed. If your game needs improvement, you are probably wasting more money through league and entry fees, or gambling, than you ever will with a lesson.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Heck no I never promoted myself as an teacher, I got my arm twisted by a good friend to come to the photo club, and share some experence, and give a few idea. The "paper" assignment was my idea, and there was one good result.

Killing time, have fun, or doing something to entertain oneself is what many retires do. Where I live we got a little pool room, we got 29 GC-III's. I would say over 85-90% of the people who play pool regularly are there to hand out, have fun, could careless about getting better, don't own anything better than a $25.00 Pool Cue.

Some time taking life too seriously is a bummer. It raise your BP, causes early Death, and is some time not too much fun.

Speaking of REAL INSTRUCTORS. We use to have this wonderful guy in the Valley of the Sun, but he has gone to the great pool room in the sky.

Don Rose use to teach, and was a dam good teacher. he had a way to attract student. He use to do a FREE CLINIC every week for an hour. Many of those who came to the clinic saw eye to eye with Don, and when on to be his students.

He was a professional Instructor, he was a great communicator, and he got results from those who took what he taught and practiced.

 

[Mark Avlon]

Don Rose use to teach, and was a dam good teacher. he had a way to attract student. He use to do a FREE CLINIC every week for an hour. Many of those who came to the clinic saw eye to eye with Don, and when on to be his students.

I also do this and it's the best thing I've done to gain exposure and students.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Two shows a day....

I'll be here all week.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Did he run his sessions like boot camp??

'You missed position on the 4 ball by a motherfraken mile, you slimy shat stain.... now drop and give me 50.' .....Cocos perfect instructor

Of all of the idiotic things you have ever posted, I think your analogy is tops.

Heck no I never promoted myself as an teacher, I got my arm twisted by a good friend to come to the photo club, and share some experence, and give a few idea. The "paper" assignment was my idea, and there was one good result.

Killing time, have fun, or doing something to entertain oneself is what many retires do. Where I live we got a little pool room, we got 29 GC-III's. I would say over 85-90% of the people who play pool regularly are there to hand out, have fun, could careless about getting better, don't own anything better than a $25.00 Pool Cue.

Some time taking life too seriously is a bummer. It raise your BP, causes early Death, and is some time not too much fun.

Speaking of REAL INSTRUCTORS. We use to have this wonderful guy in the Valley of the Sun, but he has gone to the great pool room in the sky.

Don Rose use to teach, and was a dam good teacher. he had a way to attract student. He use to do a FREE CLINIC every week for an hour. Many of those who came to the clinic saw eye to eye with Don, and when on to be his students.

He was a professional Instructor, he was a great communicator, and he got results from those who took what he taught and practiced.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Did he run his sessions like boot camp??

'You missed position on the 4 ball by a motherfraken mile, you slimy shat stain.... now drop and give me 50.' .....Cocos perfect instructor

Of all of the idiotic things you have ever posted, I think your analogy is tops.

Truth hurts. What I gave you was TRUTH.

 

[randyg]

Heck no I never promoted myself as an teacher, I got my arm twisted by a good friend to come to the photo club, and share some experence, and give a few idea. The "paper" assignment was my idea, and there was one good result.

Killing time, have fun, or doing something to entertain oneself is what many retires do. Where I live we got a little pool room, we got 29 GC-III's. I would say over 85-90% of the people who play pool regularly are there to hand out, have fun, could careless about getting better, don't own anything better than a $25.00 Pool Cue.

Some time taking life too seriously is a bummer. It raise your BP, causes early Death, and is some time not too much fun.

Speaking of REAL INSTRUCTORS. We use to have this wonderful guy in the Valley of the Sun, but he has gone to the great pool room in the sky.

Don Rose use to teach, and was a dam good teacher. he had a way to attract student. He use to do a FREE CLINIC every week for an hour. Many of those who came to the clinic saw eye to eye with Don, and when on to be his students.

He was a professional Instructor, he was a great communicator, and he got results from those who took what he taught and practiced.

You got that right. I had the privilege to be along side Don while we were both working under another Instructor. Don was an exemplary student. I know he was a professional Instructor also....SPF=randyg

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

You got that right. I had the privilege to be along side Don while we were both working under another Instructor. Don was an exemplary student. I know he was a professional Instructor also....SPF=randyg

I only met Don Rose once in person, and spoke with him a couple of time on the phone. He was a very god friend of a friend. He apparently at one time was a top player, and the one time I went over to his clinic to see him seemed well like by everyone.

A good teacher is hard to find any more, as many after a few years of teaching be in in the school system, college level or other places burn out, and seem in many cases to just put their time in.

I had a teacher in High School who was Jack Mitchell, he taught photography, had a dark room at home, love photography, and those who want to learn photography were lucky to have him teaching at our HS.

He was the many who made me set my sight on that profession, and it took many years to achieve my goal, but when ask why I went in that direction I would kidding say blame Mr. Mitchell.

 

[Blackjack]

He use to do a FREE CLINIC every week for an hour. .

Bruce,

For the record, I used to do that same thing. It got to a point where I couldn't afford to do that anymore. I used to give a lt away for free - then people started re-selling my freebies.

Today I barter (goods and services) and accept cash payment.

I don't do "FREE" anymore because it is unfair to those that pay for the same information.

I run a business. I don't know if that makes me a "real" instructor or not. What I do know is that Scott Lee still doesn't think I charge enough.

:shrug:

To get back to the original topic, I learned a lot from Cisero Murphy and Cowboy Jimmy Moore. Just because I learned and studied under them, does not mean that I inherited their ability. I play ok - but not near their level - I cover that topic in this video ... where you can plainly see that I have definite flaws in my mechanics.

Center of the Universe

Most of the "pros" and regional tour players that I have worked with have sought me out for the mental game. 14.1 Continuous, and the 9 ball break - not stroke mechanics. I have no problem sending students to instructors that teach just as well or better than I do. That's only being fair to me, the student, and the other instructor.

 

[JoeW]

One of the things I have done in life was to be a teacher. I have spent much time thinking about and experimenting with methods for teaching others. In my opinion a great teacher is able to motivate people to learn more, be more, and become more than they were before the teaching began. I have linked to this article in prior posts because it truly presents what I think about teaching as a way of life and as a profession. Perhaps you will find it interesting.

http://www.sunburstselect.com/PBReview/Who_Is_A_Teacher.htm


BTW I went to a “Navy A” school for photography when I was in the Marines (1961 or so) and later became a professional photographer for about 7 years. I used it to put myself through college and graduate school as well as earning a living as a medical photographer in a Nobel Laureate’s neurophysiology lab. The six month Navy school was the equivalent of a college degree as I later challenged (and passed) many of the art requirements with a portfolio based on techniques I learned in the service. Later, much later, when others would tell me I was an artist I would always reply that I was a technician as I had no creativity. Only after I left photography and took up oil painting and sculpture did I learn that all of the great artists were supreme technicians first. From Michelangelo to Picasso they were all great draftsman first who learned to express themselves in creative ways. After that I found that indeed I had some creative talent that had not been used as I did not believe that I was an “artist.”

I think it is unfortunate that more pool instructors do not emphasis the technical means as a way to express oneself in the highly creative sport of pool playing. First you have to have the best of techniques, and then you can express your abilities. I suspect if you review the great pool players you will find that this is true for them as it is for any artist.

 

[Ratta]

My 2cts,

it s not that difficult to find a qualified instructor- imo it s just very hard to find someone where you have the *good* feeling, that is necessary. If you don t believe *your* insctructor you could spend your money to visit a bar or cinema.

p.s. Agree 100% with Mark Avlons comment- well spoken/written.
And also BlackJack s words makes me thinkin of some stories which were equal to his examples. There are very, very few i would give lessons for nothing. But from time to time i also like to give advices for free if some beginners askin nicley and i have a good feeling that they re asking seriously

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I feel sorry for the teachers who work in most public school systems, they are stuck with what comes thru the door, in many system if a kid is uncontrollable, bad, or a poor learner. It is viewed the teacher fault by their employers. Many of the problems these teachers have to deal with are from total lack of parenting.

As Pool teachers, you can pick and choose, and say this is not working out and move on.

 

[Ratta]

I didn t visit one of those *public* pool-schools yet- but in my opinion i could imagine that they have more good points than bad points. It s just about the way an instructor has chosen for himself.
From my side i would never put someone into a *negative box* just because he s working with ppl who re needin help (no matter what reasons- social etc, and so on). Must be a pleasure to be able to help some of them to feel better wile learning pool.

 

[Mark Avlon]

Another one of Joe's gems

I think it is unfortunate that more pool instructors do not emphasis the technical means as a way to express oneself in the highly creative sport of pool playing. First you have to have the best of techniques, and then you can express your abilities. I suspect if you review the great pool players you will find that this is true for them as it is for any artist.

I've been chewing on this for the last week, and need some help.

How can a student be taught to express themselves creatively on the table? How can a student be taught to play with the cue ball like a YoYo on a string?

When teaching a student to spin the cue ball with precise control, I encourage them to play with spin, and see what they can do with it.

When teaching my students to move the cue ball and play position, I stress looking for as many options as they can find, and then picking the easiest and most forgiving one for them, based on their skill set and confidence at the time.

There are more ways than one to play the table and win the game. Each player is a different person, and we all have similarities and differences. What's easier for one player, my not for another. What might be the right shot for some players may not be the right shot for others. What's important is that they understand what make a shot easier and more forgiving than another, and what shots they can execute confidently and successfully.

Is this what you were referring to, or is it something else?

 

[JoeW]

The art and science of pool

We have similar but slightly different points of view. I think a student can be told that when they can master x shot it can be used in a variety of ways. It can then be taught that there are many ways to put one’s game and one’s style together. For instance, would you (the student) like to be known as a person who plays and often prefers banks? If so then we need to work on your banking game. Would you like to be known as the person who plays safes that are difficult to escape because you often stick the cue ball to the object ball. Well we can work on that. Each player is different and each has skills that they have mastered better than others. You (the student) should decide what kind of player you want to be. How do you want to develop (express) your game.

Certainly we would all like to be excellent at everything and even if you were the best in many areas you would still have preferences for some shots, some patterns that use these shots and your own way to play this most of complex games for the mind and body. In what areas do you want to develop your technical game so that you can express your own inimitable style?

In this way we can help the student to refine or master a set of skills that allow that student to improve because we are catering to their particular preferred style. For those who do not have an established preference we can help them to identify a style on which they would like to work. There is an inherent motivator in this approach and we have students working on parts of their game until they have mastered them. But even after everthing has been mastered the student will still have a preferred style. To know what that is and to continue to develop it would be satisfying.

One of the benefits of this approach is we set in the student's mind the idea that they are (or should be) proactive in their game. I think that many people are reactive and tend to play what the table leaves rather than think, "How do I want to play this within the contex of what is given. On some shots, I can get one, two or three rail position for an angle, a bank, a kick, or a safe. What do I want to do and what am I good at doing.

 

[JoeW]

Lately I have been working on my safety game and have found a style I like playing percentages and not trying to run out unless the run is there. Some of the younger guys at the weekly tournament have indicated that they dread playing that old man who never leaves a shot. :grin: