A regretful situation
- Thread starter ForumGhost516
- Start date
Kevin -
I am tired of the AZ member worshiping cuemakers who are less than ......
I have worked with some cuemakers that were great and I have worked with some real dandies. But those who are buttheads I have learned to only deal with them once.
IMO there are enough good guys out there so dump the cue and move on to someone else.
Ken
I see
I for one really dont care if you are tired of hearing about this or not as this has nothing to do with you and was not asked to chime in with your unwanted opinion but as this is a public forum I respect your right to say what you wish.
There is nothing supposed about the over pricing of this cue and the problem in the past that you just brought up is completely irrelevant in this situation.
In future i suggest you not talk about other people's girlfriends and if my girlfriend wanted to order me something else in future yes I would put my .02 in there for support but other than that my un friend you can take a flying leap in a very cold lake. You asked for proof as to my situation i gave it to you in black and white so I am really sorry if you dont like it. Next time. DONT ASK.
I for one really dont care if you are tired of hearing about this or not as this has nothing to do with you and was not asked to chime in with your unwanted opinion but as this is a public forum I respect your right to say what you wish.
There is nothing supposed about the over pricing of this cue and the problem in the past that you just brought up is completely irrelevant in this situation.
In future i suggest you not talk about other people's girlfriends and if my girlfriend wanted to order me something else in future yes I would put my .02 in there for support but other than that my un friend you can take a flying leap in a very cold lake. You asked for proof as to my situation i gave it to you in black and white so I am really sorry if you dont like it. Next time. DONT ASK.
i understand how that price list even proves anything. he just fills in the blank on it and even added another item to it. basically, he can pretty much change the prices on a cue per cue prices since nothing is set in stone. rather, it's filled in as he sees fit. i find it weird that he would have an item list printed out but neglect to print out the prices as well. it doesnt make sense.
excellent post John
Having ran small one to under ten man shops for a lot of years I know all about being boss, chief cook, and bottle washer. Frustrated me to no end when I spent from eight to five or longer running my business and then had to start my hands on work after I locked the gate.
The best advice I can give anyone is to put things in writing. If you are dealing face to face hand them something. If you are dealing long distance put it in the mail. Give several ways to contact you also in case there are questions or issues.
A small businessman often has seventeen balls up in the air at once. He is paying bills, dealing with the tax man, ordering supplies, cussing when his supplies come in wrong and dealing with his own problems, and dealing with serious customers and window shoppers who just want to talk and daydream for an hour or two, all while trying to get some work turned out. The small businessman can and does forget what you carefully discussed with him six months or a year ago. However, if he is a careful man he will have any written instructions tacked up where he is working. Any verbal changes made to those instructions months ago will be forgotten! Either confirm that the changes have been marked up on the written instructions or send a new set including the changes.
There are a few loose cannons out there. Well over 90% of the issues with the rest of the cue makers and other custom shops are based on a failure to communicate.
Hu
Having ran small one to under ten man shops for a lot of years I know all about being boss, chief cook, and bottle washer. Frustrated me to no end when I spent from eight to five or longer running my business and then had to start my hands on work after I locked the gate.
The best advice I can give anyone is to put things in writing. If you are dealing face to face hand them something. If you are dealing long distance put it in the mail. Give several ways to contact you also in case there are questions or issues.
A small businessman often has seventeen balls up in the air at once. He is paying bills, dealing with the tax man, ordering supplies, cussing when his supplies come in wrong and dealing with his own problems, and dealing with serious customers and window shoppers who just want to talk and daydream for an hour or two, all while trying to get some work turned out. The small businessman can and does forget what you carefully discussed with him six months or a year ago. However, if he is a careful man he will have any written instructions tacked up where he is working. Any verbal changes made to those instructions months ago will be forgotten! Either confirm that the changes have been marked up on the written instructions or send a new set including the changes.
There are a few loose cannons out there. Well over 90% of the issues with the rest of the cue makers and other custom shops are based on a failure to communicate.
Hu
I think that there are several forum members who have ordered cases from me who can testify to the lengths I go to rectify things when they are not satisfied. To me a customer who chooses to give me their money is sacred.
I might alienate "potential" customers on here with my comments but for each one of them there seems to be enough who like what I have to say and I do my best to live up to my philosophy.
Building great products in the internet age has two parts. 1. Build a great product 2. Treat your customers right.
If you do #1 then you will earn a great rep. and if you do #2 you will keep it.
So I know what I would have done were I in Mr. Frey's shoes. And that would have been everything possible to avoid a thread like this from ever appearing.
I do want to say in defense of the craftsman that anyone who is getting a lot of orders is juggling a lot of information. Sometimes now matter how well you have recorded the information you can still have a brain fart and do something wrong. I have looked right at a sheet where the special instructions are highlighted and completely forgotten to tell my people to do it and not been reminded until the customer says, "the case is nice but...."
I recommend that whoever is ordering anything should ask for confirmation by email, fax, recording the conversation, whatever just to be sure. This does two things, one it allows the customer to make sure they asked for everything that they want and two that the craftsman has understood everything as the customer wants.
I am always sad to see threads like this. All of the cue makers I know love their craft. Sometimes however the success of getting lots of orders is bittersweet when all you are doing is taking orders and everything you build becomes a blur of customer specified products. As a craftsman when you start out you are so thrilled to build things, try new things, build things that you want to build. When you start getting lots of orders then it begins to lose it's luster as you realize that your days of being able to build for your own gratification are over. Then it's just a matter of keeping up with everyone's demands. And if you make a mistake knowing that you have to redo something while all the time orders are piling up it's really frustrating and can cause a person to react in a less than professional way.
I hope everyone understands that the billiard industry is made up of a lot of small shops where the craftsman is also the accountant, purchasing agent, comptroller, customer service rep, and chief bottle washer. So please keep that in mind when something goes wrong and give a person a chance to correct it with the idea in mind that they may genuinely not realize that they made a mistake until they have had time to process all the information.
And now my balls hurt from sitting on the fence.
Charlie, you're really something else. You put your preceived problem out on a public forum, then you bash Kevin cuz he has an opinion that YOU don't agree with. With answers like that, how do you expect anyone to give a sh1t about your posts asking for opinions??
This isn't the first time you've done this. In fact, in one of your 14.1 posts, where you were asking for an assessment of YOUR 14.1 play from OTHERS, I responded and tried to tell you in a nice way that you have no clue on how to play 14.1 properly. YOU got all butt-hurt and gave me the same "go jump in a lake" line, even though the advice was SPOT ON AND HONEST.
$700 for the Bob Frey cue you got is a fair price. You may not feel so, but it is. You had many extras added to the cue, so much so that it isn't anything close to a "sneaky pete" anymore.
Look, you can take my(and everyone elses) sage opinions or you can break out your ol standby "go jump in the lake" line.
Eric
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The problem I had with Kevin wasn't his opinion. The problem i had with kevin was that he asked to see proof. I provided proof and it still wasnt good enough. Oh well.
I read the post, my 2 cents...
You avoided the middleman thinking you would save a bit of cash...understandable....
However, sometime the middleman is a good thing, checks for quality, ensures pricing is correct...
Its a bit of a gamble going the route you took, and I wouldnt refer to this as a sneaky..especially with any kind of wrap, because if it was a $700 sneaky from a cuemaker you havent done business with or hit before...no offense but thats nuts.
I wish you the best luck, sorry the cue isnt what you wanted it to be, and resale is gonna hurt on that cue should you decide to part with it (est $300)
but good luck.
Chris
You avoided the middleman thinking you would save a bit of cash...understandable....
However, sometime the middleman is a good thing, checks for quality, ensures pricing is correct...
Its a bit of a gamble going the route you took, and I wouldnt refer to this as a sneaky..especially with any kind of wrap, because if it was a $700 sneaky from a cuemaker you havent done business with or hit before...no offense but thats nuts.
I wish you the best luck, sorry the cue isnt what you wanted it to be, and resale is gonna hurt on that cue should you decide to part with it (est $300)
but good luck.
Chris
Thanks Chris. There is one issue I have with your response and please feel free to disagree with me (everyone always does lol) but how is going directly to the cuemaker a ploy to try and save money. Wouldnt it be wiser to get the cue directly from the man himself? Believe me the money was not the concern.
Let me ask you this would you rather get an armani suit from giorgio himself custom tailored to your needs and your body. Directly from Giorgio or would you rather go through a store to get it? Im not being sarcastic in any way im just curious. Everyone has been saying we went to bob frey directly to save money that was not the case in the least.
Well Shoot well everyone and to everyone who has posted good or bad I say thank you for your input as always.
Charlie
I agree with you thats what he called it lol. It even says on the one sheet that its a Frey Sneaky but great line about Ray Charles. lol
Charlie
For someone who pretends to know everything, you don't know much. YOu certainly didn't know enough to listen to anyone's opinion on this cue purchase. You were told up front that it was a waste, and I'm sure we would have told you to go through Nusbaum (if we hadn't already). No argument needed or wanted from you on that point. YOu were dead on that point from the start.
Next, calling out Bob on AZ was/is/continues to be ridiculous. He doesn't belong and surely doesn't care about your post. Neither does anyone who knows Bob. Dead again.
If you have a problem with a cuemaker, you either handle it with him directly or there is something called Small Claims Courts. The only reason anyone on this forum gives a crap about this post was so they could take five minutes off of work. So, stop your whining. YOu aren't the first guy who didn't get what they want out of a cuemaker and won't be the last. Dead again.
Speaking of playing, I'd like to address is your 14.1 game. Maryland championship is coming up in June, if memory serves. If you have such a game, and money to boot, then I think you should get in there and play Holhman. Joe Tucker did. Almost beat him too. That's the only way to really rate your knowledge of the game. Easy in and out on Southwest to BWI. 10 miles away from the airport. Its you against the table, as the Meatman said. Maybe you'll be on a feed and we can watch!
tim
For someone who pretends to know everything, you don't know much. YOu certainly didn't know enough to listen to anyone's opinion on this cue purchase. You were told up front that it was a waste, and I'm sure we would have told you to go through Nusbaum (if we hadn't already). No argument needed or wanted from you on that point. YOu were dead on that point from the start.
Next, calling out Bob on AZ was/is/continues to be ridiculous. He doesn't belong and surely doesn't care about your post. Neither does anyone who knows Bob. Dead again.
If you have a problem with a cuemaker, you either handle it with him directly or there is something called Small Claims Courts. The only reason anyone on this forum gives a crap about this post was so they could take five minutes off of work. So, stop your whining. YOu aren't the first guy who didn't get what they want out of a cuemaker and won't be the last. Dead again.
Speaking of playing, I'd like to address is your 14.1 game. Maryland championship is coming up in June, if memory serves. If you have such a game, and money to boot, then I think you should get in there and play Holhman. Joe Tucker did. Almost beat him too. That's the only way to really rate your knowledge of the game. Easy in and out on Southwest to BWI. 10 miles away from the airport. Its you against the table, as the Meatman said. Maybe you'll be on a feed and we can watch!
tim
ersatzplayer
Registered
the proof is in the pudding
What keeps surprising me in this thread is how loosely things are labeled as "proof" to damage someone's reputation. So far, the only things I've seen are someone's statement about what his girlfriend told a cue maker while he wasn't present.The other "proof" is two sheets of paper with specs that may not be right, and some confusing pricing info. They look like someone's accounting could use some help :smile:
What we don't know is whether these prices correspond to what was quoted at the time of the order. If that is the case, somebody may simply have gotten what he/she paid for, no matter whether some other dealer sells it cheaper. Prices on a third person's website seem quite irrelevant.
What we do know is that the cue maker may have gotten the wrap wrong, and eventually refunded what was asked for by the customer. In my book, if you agree to an $80 refund and you get it, you should let it go.
We also know that everybody agrees that the cue plays great.
But even assuming that all the "proof" is accepted as is, without the remaining questions, what it doesn't support is the conclusion that Bob Frey did more than fumble one order out of some hundreds he must have filled over the last few years. This is far from what the tone of this thread at times seems to suggest, namely that he somehow intentionally misled an unsuspecting customer. I just don't see that proven anywhere.
- Oh, in the interest of full disclosure: I own a Bob Frey sneaky that I bought second hand. It's awesome play totally clouds my judgment.
What keeps surprising me in this thread is how loosely things are labeled as "proof" to damage someone's reputation. So far, the only things I've seen are someone's statement about what his girlfriend told a cue maker while he wasn't present.The other "proof" is two sheets of paper with specs that may not be right, and some confusing pricing info. They look like someone's accounting could use some help :smile:
What we don't know is whether these prices correspond to what was quoted at the time of the order. If that is the case, somebody may simply have gotten what he/she paid for, no matter whether some other dealer sells it cheaper. Prices on a third person's website seem quite irrelevant.
What we do know is that the cue maker may have gotten the wrap wrong, and eventually refunded what was asked for by the customer. In my book, if you agree to an $80 refund and you get it, you should let it go.
We also know that everybody agrees that the cue plays great.
But even assuming that all the "proof" is accepted as is, without the remaining questions, what it doesn't support is the conclusion that Bob Frey did more than fumble one order out of some hundreds he must have filled over the last few years. This is far from what the tone of this thread at times seems to suggest, namely that he somehow intentionally misled an unsuspecting customer. I just don't see that proven anywhere.
- Oh, in the interest of full disclosure: I own a Bob Frey sneaky that I bought second hand. It's awesome play totally clouds my judgment.
NYC cue dude
Banned
At this point Forumghost, you should be ashamed of yourself. There isn't anyone who is more pro customer than myself. I am a believer that a transaction isn't complete between a buyer and seller, until the customer is satisfied. I even posted as much in another thread yesterday.
Your initial complaint, nearly a month and a half ago, had some merit. IMO, it had more to do with the wrap and not the money involved. Initially you voiced your displeasure and asked for an $80 refund. You eventually received what you asked for!!!! End of story. You share some responsibilty as far as pricing is concerned. Buyer beware. It's unreasonable to ask for a partial refund, and upon receiving it, remaining disastified.
I don't think the price you paid was that out of line for the cue delivered. A sneaky peat is supposed to look like a house cue. The really good ones look like a one piece off the wall stick. What you received in NO WAY can be classified as a sneaky peat.
You should let it go, now. You made your opinion known. At this point your whining only makes you look both silly and petty.
Rg
Your initial complaint, nearly a month and a half ago, had some merit. IMO, it had more to do with the wrap and not the money involved. Initially you voiced your displeasure and asked for an $80 refund. You eventually received what you asked for!!!! End of story. You share some responsibilty as far as pricing is concerned. Buyer beware. It's unreasonable to ask for a partial refund, and upon receiving it, remaining disastified.
I don't think the price you paid was that out of line for the cue delivered. A sneaky peat is supposed to look like a house cue. The really good ones look like a one piece off the wall stick. What you received in NO WAY can be classified as a sneaky peat.
You should let it go, now. You made your opinion known. At this point your whining only makes you look both silly and petty.
Rg
With all due respect
With all due respect it was over until you just dragged it back up. I have not posted regarding this subject for quite some time now.
With all due respect it was over until you just dragged it back up. I have not posted regarding this subject for quite some time now.
Ok number one and i mean this with all due respect. I dont claim to know everything and never have.
Number two no one had any input before this cue was purchased so you have no clue what you are talking about there. So being told up front is obviously out of the question as there was no front to be told about.
Number three and again not dead is that i put the post up to warn people about this man not to call him out. I couldnt care less if he is on here or not I know people buy from him on here and I wanted to warn them plain and simple so again not dead.
Number four Ill whine if i want to do you ask all the people on here that have a problem if they are whining? Did you ask Smorg if he was whining to as it really wouldnt surprise me if you did.
And as for my 14.1 game never once did i claim to be any good. I dont even know where you are getting that from.
In future before you go on these self righteous rants bashing someone you dont even know in a situation that has nothing to do with you perhaps you should take a second and think if this was a good way to present this.
Thanks have a great day.