A snooker cue for a beginning pool player?

C

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
My 14 year old cousin recieved a snooker cue for his birthday as he is getting interested in playing pool. He was at the shop when the cue was purchased and he tried a number of different cues, both pool and snooker. I have to clarify that he is interested in pool NOT snooker. So the sales man tells him and his dad that beginning young people tend to do better with snooker cues playing pool.

What do you guys think? I haven't seen the cue so I don't know anything about it. As far as my cousins ability, he is as green as it gets. He can't pocket ball that isn't straight in and within 10 inches of the cue ball and the pocket. Anything else requires a bit of luck.

He said that he had more control with the snooker cue, however I think that has more to do with salesman pushing the cue, as my cousing is too new to have any control to speak of.

I am just looking for some opinions for future reference. I know we have some cue experts out there and I don't know anything about cues.
 
I think that the small diameter shaft is going to have an opposite affect, sounds like sales B.S. to me...
 
the smaller the diameter of the shaft, the more precise you have to be with the tip. The larger the diameter, more forgiving. This is because a 13mm shaft, for example, will strike closer to the center of the cueball than a 12mm shaft if they are aimed at the same spot. I hope this makes sense. I started playing with a 11.25mm shaft and I later learned I liked larger diameter shafts much more.
 
The salesman wanted to get rid of that cue. It was all sales talk. I'd take it right back and get a pool cue!
 
Sales only

The salesman just wanted the sale! I have both types of cues and play both games.
If your cousin has smaller hands, maybe using a smaller tip size, but I would not recommend anything smaller than 12mm. TAKE IT BACK!!
 
Cameron - as most have said. If he seriously wants to play American Pool on a proper full size pool table he better off with a american pool cue from the start rather than a snooker cue, particularly if he a beginner. It actually makes the learning process longer as he would probably change to a american pool cue sooner or later and even then he will probably need to adjust or relearn certain shots he use to with a snooker cue.

I can definitely say that comment "beginners use and play better with a snooker cue" is general %R?%$ tbh. :eek:

I am not saying it is impossible to play with a snooker cue but most would agree and will play a proper cue rather than smaller thinner snooker cue.. So if i were u ake the cue back and get a proper pool cue (nothing too expensive) it more suited with feel and stroke. Plus imo it easier to impart spin and make the cue ball do a lot more than u can with a snooker cue. That just imo.
 
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Cameron Smith said:
My 14 year old cousin recieved a snooker cue for his birthday as he is getting interested in playing pool. ...

I am just looking for some opinions for future reference. I know we have some cue experts out there and I don't know anything about cues.
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I think the salesman was making a sale as mentioned by others, but I don't think that the snooker cue will necessarily be a problem. If it is shorter than 58 inches (and I think most snooker cues are) then it might fit your cousin better than the usual pool cue. Another factor is the squirt of the cue. Usually snooker cues have far less squirt than pool cues. I think it is better for a beginner to learn side spin with a low-squirt cue, and that most snooker cues are cheaper than most low-squirt pool cues.

Some above have made a big thing of accuracy of the hit. An 11-mm tip is less than 10% smaller than a 12-mm tip. That's really insignificant, although it looks huge if you're not used to seeing small tips. The accuracy of hit stuff is a non-issue. With either tip, you have to be able to find the center of the ball. Or, you can make the contrary argument that it is good to play with a smaller tip because it forces careful attention to alignment, especially for a beginner. But I wouldn't.

I say let the kid keep his special birthday cue.

One example: the top-ranked player where I play uses a snooker cue for pool. He never plays with a pool cue except to break at nine ball. He seems to have no problem with side spin.
 
Bob Jewett said:
...

One example: the top-ranked player where I play uses a snooker cue for pool. He never plays with a pool cue except to break at nine ball. He seems to have no problem with side spin.
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Isn't it obvious that a top-ranked player has nog issues playing with a snookercue? He aimed way better than a low-ranked player.
 
Cameron Smith said:
My 14 year old cousin recieved a snooker cue for his birthday as he is getting interested in playing pool...What do you guys think?...
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This is a great question to ask.

What did your 14 year old cousin say?
 
Every place that I have seen that sells cues has far more pool cues than snooker cues. So I am mystified why the pool players think the saleman was just trying to unload a cue that wouldn't serve the purpose.

One virtue of a snooker cue is the small tip, which makes it much easier to see exactly where the tip will hit the cue ball. Making a new player aware of precise cueing leads to good ball control.

That said, I don't particularly like using a snooker cue to play pool, but my favourite pool cue has a thinner shaft than the vast majority of denizens of this board would use.:D
 
I play both games to a pretty good level and a snooker cue is all wrong for pool. I have a Jon Parris and a Predator. Some top snooker players use their snooker cue for pool because they feel uncomfortable going back and forth. The tip is sized to match the size of the balls, you do not get more accuracy with a snooker cue, what you get is a much smaller margin for error when you stray from a center ball hit. He needs to get a pool cue. Karen Corr, Steve Davis and Allison Fisher are all world champion snooker players who use pool cues when playing pool.
 
... you do not get more accuracy with a snooker cue, what you get is a much smaller margin for error when you stray from a center ball hit. ...
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I've seen this stated before, but I do not believe it. I think while this may seem like a perfectly possible result, it is simply bogus. How much less margin? How much more unintended side do you get for a 1mm error in striking the cue ball with a snooker tip as opposed to a pool tip? A thousand times as much? Ten times a much? Twice as much? 5% more? No difference? Until someone can put a number on it, I think it's all just idle speculation and "well, it seems like a lot of difference to me" is not a satisfactory answer.
 
I'm no expert, but I always practice with a snooker cue. when it's time to play in league, I bring out a regular cue.

I found out years ago that a snooker cue stops some of my sloppy shooting. I can correct most of my nonchalant, sloppy shooting after only a few racks with my trusty, old snooker cue.

works for me, maybe somebody else can try it. d_
 
Bob Jewett said:
I've seen this stated before, but I do not believe it. I think while this may seem like a perfectly possible result, it is simply bogus. How much less margin? How much more unintended side do you get for a 1mm error in striking the cue ball with a snooker tip as opposed to a pool tip? A thousand times as much? Ten times a much? Twice as much? 5% more? No difference? Until someone can put a number on it, I think it's all just idle speculation and "well, it seems like a lot of difference to me" is not a satisfactory answer.
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I am sorry Bob, but to what level do you play? When hitting a pool ball an off center hit is magnified when you are making contact with a smaller point. This means the inside of your tip ( the side closest to the center off the ball) will stray further away and create more unwanted sidespin. I have played in regional tournaments with a snooker cue before getting a pool cue. Do all the math you want it makes a big difference. By the way my name is Ray Doherty and I was a 3 time national junior champion in Northern Ireland and I have hit over 500 centuries, and I have cashed in quite a few pro level regional 9-ball tournaments
 
raybo147 said:
I am sorry Bob, but to what level do you play? When hitting a pool ball an off center hit is magnified when you are making contact with a smaller point. This means the inside of your tip ( the side closest to the center off the ball) will stray further away and create more unwanted sidespin. I have played in regional tournaments with a snooker cue before getting a pool cue. Do all the math you want it makes a big difference. By the way my name is Ray Doherty and I was a 3 time national junior champion in Northern Ireland and I have hit over 500 centuries, and I have cashed in quite a few pro level regional 9-ball tournaments
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Hi Ray. I certainly don't play at your level.

But my question still stands. A rough analysis suggests that the effective tip offset is different for different tips due to the difference in roundness of the tip. Ron Shepard analyzed this in his paper "Amateur Physics for the Amateur Pool Player," but I had forgotten about it.

Suppose you are off by 1mm from hitting the center. If your tip were completely flat, you would still hit the center of the cue ball, albeit with a spot on the tip 1mm from its center. If your tip were tiny, the error would be the whole mm. Most tips are in between those two extremes. Most pool cue tips are rounded to about the radius of a US 5-cent piece (21-mm diameter). This reduces the effective tip offset to 73% of the real offset. If the tip is twice as curved, so that a perfect half-sphere fits on an 11-mm shaft, the effective tip offset is 83% of the real offset. That's some difference, but I wouldn't call it huge.

The other way to look at it is how far off center the tip has to be for maximum side spin, when you are playing nearly on the shoulder of the tip. The farthest you can hit from center on the cue ball without miscuing is about 19mm. With a 14-mm tip, the center of the cue stick has to be about 19mm+7mm = 26mm to hit on the shoulder. With a 10-mm tip, that would be 19mm+5mm = 24mm to hit on the shoulder. I think that's not a big difference in offset for maximum spin.

Yes, a smaller tip does get more spin for a given eccentricity of hit, but I think it is not as significant as it may feel.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Hi Ray. I certainly don't play at your level.

But my question still stands. A rough analysis suggests that the effective tip offset is different for different tips due to the difference in roundness of the tip. Ron Shepard analyzed this in his paper "Amateur Physics for the Amateur Pool Player," but I had forgotten about it.

Suppose you are off by 1mm from hitting the center. If your tip were completely flat, you would still hit the center of the cue ball, albeit with a spot on the tip 1mm from its center. If your tip were tiny, the error would be the whole mm. Most tips are in between those two extremes. Most pool cue tips are rounded to about the radius of a US 5-cent piece (21-mm diameter). This reduces the effective tip offset to 73% of the real offset. If the tip is twice as curved, so that a perfect half-sphere fits on an 11-mm shaft, the effective tip offset is 83% of the real offset. That's some difference, but I wouldn't call it huge.

The other way to look at it is how far off center the tip has to be for maximum side spin, when you are playing nearly on the shoulder of the tip. The farthest you can hit from center on the cue ball without miscuing is about 19mm. With a 14-mm tip, the center of the cue stick has to be about 19mm+7mm = 26mm to hit on the shoulder. With a 10-mm tip, that would be 19mm+5mm = 24mm to hit on the shoulder. I think that's not a big difference in offset for maximum spin.

Yes, a smaller tip does get more spin for a given eccentricity of hit, but I think it is not as significant as it may feel.
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I have never analyzed it like that but when I first started playing regional pool tournaments in the USA, I used a snooker cue with ok results, a few of the other players noticed and suggested I use a pool cue (including Karen Corr who is a neighbor of mine and a old rival from Ireland). Immediately I found I could exaggerate off center hits to achieve greater levels of english with far less allowance for throw. (predator 314) this means I could dig the ball out of corners in a way I just could not do with a my snooker cue (Jon Parris- best cue money can buy). I am telling you Bob the difference is like night and day. In case you were wondering, my pool cue is quite useless for snooker. I have been playing deflection for 20 years and my pool cue dosen't have any and a 13mm tip gives me no touch or control in tight at the top of the table. I hopes this gives you some insight as to how it feels to make the switch from one cue to another.
 
Gregg said:
This is a great question to ask.

What did your 14 year old cousin say?
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I haven't spoken to him since he got it. However from what I understand he just excited to have his own cue. However as I stated he is too new to understand the difference.

Thanks everyone for the replies. It's nice to know that I am not the only one who thinks it was a crazy decision.

I don't think that the salesman was trying to unload the cue, as they keep snooker cues in stock at the store (me living in Canada and all), so they would get a replacement shipment in a few days. I think he just doesn't know as much as he believes.

If anything the thinner shaft might feel like it is a better fit for his hands (still being smaller than the average adult).

It was bought as a starter cue since we don't know how serious he is about playing (the cue costed less than $100). He got interested primarily after watching me play a match a couple of months ago. So I think the best course of action is to see how much he plays and how interested he is. At which point he can upgrade to a cheap Falcon or something.

But I'm not too optimistic that he will become a full fledged pool player. He seems to want to do things his own way. But who knows, he is still young.
 
raybo147 said:
... Immediately I found I could exaggerate off center hits to achieve greater levels of english with far less allowance for throw. (predator 314) this means I could dig the ball out of corners in a way I just could not do with a my snooker cue (Jon Parris- best cue money can buy). ...
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I'm puzzled by this. First, for anyone else trying to follow the conversation, by "throw" Ray means "squirt" or "deflection." It's what they call squirt in the UK.

In my experience, snooker cues have less squirt than pool cues in all situations. I've never played with a John Parris cue that I know of, but maybe it has much more squirt than I'm familiar with. Part of my suggestion to let the young cousin keep the snooker cue was based on that experience. I feel it is better for him to start with a low-squirt cue rather than re-learn side spin later, and since a Predator costs about US$300 at least and some good snooker cues I've seen cost a lot less than that, it seems a not so unreasonable choice. If the alternative is to get him a typical heavy-ferrule, 13.5-mm shaft pool cue, I think the snooker cue would be a much better choice, if it is like the snooker cues I've played with.
 
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