A snooker cue for a beginning pool player?

[raybo147]

I'm puzzled by this. First, for anyone else trying to follow the conversation, by "throw" Ray means "squirt" or "deflection." It's what they call squirt in the UK.

In my experience, snooker cues have less squirt than pool cues in all situations. I've never played with a John Parris cue that I know of, but maybe it has much more squirt than I'm familiar with. Part of my suggestion to let the young cousin keep the snooker cue was based on that experience. I feel it is better for him to start with a low-squirt cue rather than re-learn side spin later, and since a Predator costs about US$300 at least and some good snooker cues I've seen cost a lot less than that, it seems a not so unreasonable choice. If the alternative is to get him a typical heavy-ferrule, 13.5-mm shaft pool cue, I think the snooker cue would be a much better choice, if it is like the snooker cues I've played with.

No Bob, snooker cues throw (squirt) much more than the average pool cue, I aim a quarter to a half ball off for running side and reverse side shots when playing snooker and maybe a half tip off playing the same shot with my pool cue. I tried to play snooker with my pool cue and found myself not being able to pick a new spot for half ball running side shots on the black and I would miss them thick the same way every time. Sorry to get technical but snooker players should know what I am talking about. A pool cue is easier for pool than a snooker cue, period. This is a fact, not just my opinion.

 

[Bob Jewett]

No Bob, snooker cues throw (squirt) much more than the average pool cue ...

My experience is different from yours, but I'll try some other snooker cues to see if I've missed something. Of course, you are comparing against a Predator which is not an average pool cue.

But why would any snooker player want a high-squirt cue? Wouldn't a low-squirt cue be even more important at snooker?

 

[jay helfert]

I play both games to a pretty good level and a snooker cue is all wrong for pool. I have a Jon Parris and a Predator. Some top snooker players use their snooker cue for pool because they feel uncomfortable going back and forth. The tip is sized to match the size of the balls, you do not get more accuracy with a snooker cue, what you get is a much smaller margin for error when you stray from a center ball hit. He needs to get a pool cue. Karen Corr, Steve Davis and Allison Fisher are all world champion snooker players who use pool cues when playing pool.

Good post here. My personal belief once again is that it is very hard to move snooker cues in a U.S. billiard supply. Who plays snooker anymore? Very few rooms in the United States even have a snooker table. Try selling a snooker table if you have one. Good luck!

This salesman was thrilled to get rid of a cue that he couldn't sell to anyone else. He just used a little "sales talk" to sell it. I don't buy any of that BS. For a kid starting out, there couldn't be anything worse than trying to play pool with a 10 or 11mm tip. He's got no chance and will become discouraged.

 

[mikepage]

Good post here. My personal belief once again is that it is very hard to move snooker cues in a U.S. billiard supply. Who plays snooker anymore? Very few rooms in the United States even have a snooker table. Try selling a snooker table if you have one. Good luck!

This salesman was thrilled to get rid of a cue that he couldn't sell to anyone else. He just used a little "sales talk" to sell it.

This could all be true, but I believe the OP is from Canada. When I was at a pool hall in Winnipeg a few months ago, I looked at the cues for sale on the wall. I think they had more snooker cues than pool cues, or it seemed at least there were a lot of snooker cues.

I don't buy any of that BS. For a kid starting out, there couldn't be anything worse than trying to play pool with a 10 or 11mm tip. He's got no chance and will become discouraged.

If someone starts out with a 13 mm tip and then tries out a 10 or 11 mm tip for size, it seems weirdly small. But if he begins with a small diameter tip, then I don't see the big deal. I don't understand why people think it is so different. It seems to me subtleties aside the margin for error would be about the same.

However, one more reason to switch the cue now to a pool cue if that can be done easily is people -- other pool playing kids -- will surely point out he doesn't have a real pool cue. It might be like being the only circumsized(noncircumcized) kid in the locker room.

Oh but wait! He's 14. This peer stuff doesn't really matter at 14, right?

 

[jay helfert]

This could all be true, but I believe the OP is from Canada. When I was at a pool hall in Winnipeg a few months ago, I looked at the cues for sale on the wall. I think they had more snooker cues than pool cues, or it seemed at least there were a lot of snooker cues.



If someone starts out with a 13 mm tip and then tries out a 10 or 11 mm tip for size, it seems weirdly small. But if he begins with a small diameter tip, then I don't see the big deal. I don't understand why people think it is so different. It seems to me subtleties aside the margin for error would be about the same.

However, one more reason to switch the cue now to a pool cue if that can be done easily is people -- other pool playing kids -- will surely point out he doesn't have a real pool cue. It might be like being the only circumsized(noncircumcized) kid in the locker room.

Oh but wait! He's 14. This peer stuff doesn't really matter at 14, right?

Let me just say this. There is a reason why pool cues typically have 12.5 to 13mm tips. And why snooker cues typically have 10 to 11mm tips. It has to do with the size of the respective cue balls. This is something that has evolved and been tested over many decades of play, by many thousands of players. It's not just some big accident.

If you truly believe that playing pool with a 10mm tip makes no difference, then I don't think there is anything more I can say to you, except good luck.

And if you don't believe me, just ask all the snooker players from Canada who have come south to play 9-Ball. How many of them still play with snooker cues and how many switched to pool cues? There may be one or two that still try to play pool with a snooker cue (because they are used to it) but they are at a decided disadvantage.

 

[mikepage]

Let me just say this. There is a reason why pool cues typically have 12.5 to 13mm tips. And why snooker cues typically have 10 to 11mm tips. It has to do with the size of the respective cue balls. This is something that has evolved and been tested over many decades of play, by many thousands of players. It's not just some big accident.

Yes I agree.

If you truly believe that playing pool with a 10mm tip makes no difference, then I don't think there is anything more I can say to you, except good luck.

I don't think it makes no difference.

And if you don't believe me, just ask all the snooker players from Canada who have come south to play 9-Ball. How many of them still play with snooker cues and how many switched to pool cues? There may be one or two that still try to play pool with a snooker cue (because they are used to it) but they are at a decided disadvantage.

It's not that I disagree with you. I just think you overstate the case. I went to the Mid-Canada bar box tournament a few months ago. There were plenty of people playing with snooker cues. Vince Chambers is one that I recall. And there were plenty of square stances at the pool table. Could these people play pool better if they spent some time getting used to a pool cue? Maybe. But compared to the hoards of other factors a beginning player faces, I just think this issue is part of the subtleties.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

One virtue of a snooker cue is the small tip, which makes it much easier to see exactly where the tip will hit the cue ball. Making a new player aware of precise cueing leads to good ball control.

That's my initial thought too because I never liked them 15mm bar cues.

 

[despotic931]

It's not that I disagree with you. I just think you overstate the case. I went to the Mid-Canada bar box tournament a few months ago. There were plenty of people playing with snooker cues. Vince Chambers is one that I recall. And there were plenty of square stances at the pool table. Could these people play pool better if they spent some time getting used to a pool cue? Maybe. But compared to the hoards of other factors a beginning player faces, I just think this issue is part of the subtleties.

These people learned to play with snooker cues, playing snooker mind you, and because of their desire not to switch cues are handicaped. Just like Ray said. I believe that snooker cues do cause more deflection (brass ferules?), but I am with Bob when it comes to the size of the tip not mattering as far as accuracy.

As far as the kid and the cue, let the kid decide!

 

[smashmouth]

Bob, you know almost nothing about snooker so relax on the advice, let the big boys handle it for once

you can also add Cliff Thornburn to the list off Snooker champs who use pool cues for pool

 

[worriedbeef]

Let me just say this. There is a reason why pool cues typically have 12.5 to 13mm tips. And why snooker cues typically have 10 to 11mm tips. It has to do with the size of the respective cue balls. This is something that has evolved and been tested over many decades of play, by many thousands of players. It's not just some big accident.

this is one of the greatest posts in the history of az lol. sums up the pure logic of using a pool cue for pool, and a snooker cue for snooker.

btw, snooker cues definitely throw the cue ball off a lot more than pool cues do in my opinion. also bob, you make a good point about surely snooker would require lower deflecvtion even more than pool what with the tighter pockts. but snooker isnt really about using english. it's all on the centre axis mostly, apart from the odd bit of running side.

pool's the game that's about spinning ol' whitey.

 

[Bob Jewett]

this is one of the greatest posts in the history of az lol. sums up the pure logic of using a pool cue for pool, and a snooker cue for snooker.

btw, snooker cues definitely throw the cue ball off a lot more than pool cues do in my opinion. also bob, you make a good point about surely snooker would require lower deflecvtion even more than pool what with the tighter pockts. but snooker isnt really about using english. it's all on the centre axis mostly, apart from the odd bit of running side.

pool's the game that's about spinning ol' whitey.

While I agree that side is a far riskier proposition at snooker because of the more difficult shots (on average), I think that it's also true that at the top level the player must be prepared to use side and even serious amounts of side. I think that a cue that has reduced squirt loses nothing for normal pots.

Also, I'd say that carom billiards is the game "that's about spinning ol' whitey" and that pool is somewhere in the middle.

 

[WesleyW]

Let me just say this. There is a reason why pool cues typically have 12.5 to 13mm tips. And why snooker cues typically have 10 to 11mm tips. It has to do with the size of the respective cue balls. This is something that has evolved and been tested over many decades of play, by many thousands of players. It's not just some big accident.

Wrong. Do you know what the size of carom balls are? They are bigger than regular poolballs, but the size they use is 11-12mm, smaller than tips from pool cues.

If you truly believe that playing pool with a 10mm tip makes no difference, then I don't think there is anything more I can say to you, except good luck.

And if you don't believe me, just ask all the snooker players from Canada who have come south to play 9-Ball. How many of them still play with snooker cues and how many switched to pool cues? There may be one or two that still try to play pool with a snooker cue (because they are used to it) but they are at a decided disadvantage.

I share the same opinion, thats why I use a 12mm tip, and not a 13mm. Peoples should play with a snookercue, before saying anything. They will feel hugh differences between snookercues and poolcues. I would never recommend using a snookercue to play pool.

 

[Reaper114]

Hmm Im from the Uk so not getting all the american pool jargon(terminology) just yet but im assuming deflection means the amount you have to compencate your aim to judge for side(english). If thats the case then yes snooker cues cause more deflection than a pool cue definately when playing american pool. A larger tip means you'll hit more of the target zone(sweet spot) on the white. So this does translates into easier targeting accuracy wise. But using a smaller tip has its benefits too when used well e.g If your timing is good then youll create more back spin (think you calls it draw) etc etc

The problem with using a snooker cue for american pool constantly(especially machine/factory made and not hand made) is that you run the risk of damaging the shaft! The risk is higher for smaller tip sized cues as the shaft is thinner. Sort of things that can happen are damaged ferrels and possibly cracked/snapped shafts. This is mainly due to the weight of the american pool balls and the shafts not being able to stand the pressure consistantly.

My Best advice for your cousin depends on the size of the tip on the snooker cue. if its over 10.5 it might be ok, 11mm then it should definately be able to cope with the stresses of playing pool constantly and as he's a beginner the deflection stuff wont come into the frame as he's just started to learn and not having to re-learn! If its smaller than those stated above id advice to take it back and start using a pool cue

I Should take my own advice in cue safety lol "using a 9mm john parris cue to play straight pool once a week atm" (does make AWESOME cues) Must admit i do fear it breaking. Id be devistated if it broke! Be like losing a child!!!! Metaphorically speaking ofcourse Just wondering If the misses will accept that as a valid excuse to go get another one made!

All the best to ya Cousin

R114

 

[raybo147]

While I agree that side is a far riskier proposition at snooker because of the more difficult shots (on average), I think that it's also true that at the top level the player must be prepared to use side and even serious amounts of side. I think that a cue that has reduced squirt loses nothing for normal pots.

Also, I'd say that carom billiards is the game "that's about spinning ol' whitey" and that pool is somewhere in the middle.

Bob you have to understand that snooker is played on a large table with small balls, this means there is room to move the cue ball around but pocketing balls is much more difficult. Therefore snooker players focus on bringing the cue through the ball in a straight line because the trick to snooker is a consistent, repeatable stroke and execution time after time. Pool is played on a smaller table with bigger balls which means that it is imperative to be able to steer the cue ball into smaller spaces and that explains why pool players use a lot more english than snooker players and this also explains why pool cues have been developed to deflect less than snooker cues. We do use english in snooker but only when we really have to. Jay said I did a good post--I am going to go get a beer and gloat now!!