A snooker situation - thoughts?

Ratamon

Ratamon

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Dennis Taylor in one of the matches of the 2021 WSC (don't recall which one) mentioned that it is possible to legally pocket the same coloured ball on three consecutive shots. Ken Doherty then spills the beans that it's the yellow ball in a free ball situation.

I'm sure he's right but this got me thinking - if the yellow is nominated as a free ball, there must be at least one red left on the table at that point (on which the incoming player is snookered) so he pockets the yellow twice but surely he must go for the red on the third shot.

Any ideas what situation did he contemplate where one call legally play three yellows in three consecutive shots ?
 
V

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
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Ratamon said:
Dennis Taylor in one of the matches of the 2021 WSC (don't recall which one) mentioned that it is possible to legally pocket the same coloured ball on three consecutive shots. Ken Doherty then spills the beans that it's the yellow ball in a free ball situation.

I'm sure he's right but this got me thinking - if the yellow is nominated as a free ball, there must be at least one red left on the table at that point (on which the incoming player is snookered) so he pockets the yellow twice but surely he must go for the red on the third shot.

Any ideas what situation did he contemplate where one call legally play three yellows in three consecutive shots ?
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I didn't see it, but this scenario (although unlikely) would be legal:

1) Player 1 fouls leaving a free ball (all the colours + red left on the table)
2) Player 2 nominates the yellow as the free ball
3) Player 2 legally pots the yellow intentionally, but also swings the cue ball round the table to try and get position and accidentally pots the final red
4) Player 2 legally nominates and pots the yellow as a standard colour, having potted a 'red'
5) The yellow is re-spotted and player 2 begins to clear the colours, starting with the yellow
 
Ratamon

Ratamon

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vjmehra said:
I didn't see it, but this scenario (although unlikely) would be legal:

1) Player 1 fouls leaving a free ball (all the colours + red left on the table)
2) Player 2 nominates the yellow as the free ball
3) Player 2 legally pots the yellow intentionally, but also swings the cue ball round the table to try and get position and accidentally pots the final red
4) Player 2 legally nominates and pots the yellow as a standard colour, having potted a 'red'
5) The yellow is re-spotted and player 2 begins to clear the colours, starting with the yellow
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Thank you for a prompt reply. Makes perfect sense - the yellow becomes the "ball on" once the final red is potted. Pretty unlikely in real life, I agree
 
V

vjmehra

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Ratamon said:
Thanks a bunch! I've been playing and following snooker all my life but have never come across this scenario. Every day a school day!
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I would never have thought about it, until this thread in all honesty, but then you posted it and I had to solve it :)
 
Geosnookery

Geosnookery

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Ratamon said:
Thanks a bunch! I've been playing and following snooker all my life but have never come across this scenario. Every day a school day!
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Ha! I’ve been playing Snooker 53 years since age 14 and never came across it...and if reincarnated will not come across it. Or perchance that if I ever do, will be scrolling back though AZ to find the solution I read in in a previous life a century earlier.
 
Boro Nut

Boro Nut

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Geosnookery said:
Ha! I’ve been playing Snooker 53 years since age 14 and never came across it...and if reincarnated will not come across it. Or perchance that if I ever do, will be scrolling back though AZ to find the solution I read in in a previous life a century earlier.
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The trick is knowing that all balls 'on' (ie the snookered ball(s) and the nominated free ball) are all legally potable, so both can be potted in the same stroke, though your first impact must always be on the nominated free ball or else it's a foul. So you can't nominate yellow and hit the red first.

In the case of a red, both the red and the yellow would count as reds, and the score would be two points (ie one point each). But in the case of two colours being potted simultaneously only one of them is scored. The strange reason given was that there is only really one colour, but multiple reds. I don't know if this is still the rule though.

I had a similar situation in a league match in another club once back in the old WPBSA days when nominating a free ball green intending to use it to knock in the yellow that was in the jaws of the pocket, meaning to leave the green in the same jaws for an easy next shot. But they both dropped in and my opponent claimed a foul, which their referee agreed with. When I said it wasn't, but I only scored two points not four, it made the situation even worse. But I eventually got them to agree to complete the frame and that I would forfeit all remaining points on the table at the time if I was wrong. I finished the match then got my rulebook from my car and showed them the ruling.

Boro Nut
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Boro Nut said:
... In the case of a red, both the red and the yellow would count as reds, and the score would be two points (ie one point each). But in the case of two colours being potted simultaneously only one of them is scored. The strange reason given was that there is only really one colour, but multiple reds. I don't know if this is still the rule though.
...
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It is the rule, but no justification is given in the rules. Probably it is a bad idea to try to justify a rule that would be reasonable either way.

Here are the rules:
 
Ratamon

Ratamon

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It’s quite strange that in this scenario the striker doesn’t get any additional points for pocketing the free ball as the ball on stays down. Don’t like this rule a single bit but it occurs so rarely that it probably doesn’t matter

Edit. I meant to quote Bob’s post but it didn’t get pulled through for some reason

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
V

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
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skogstokig said:
but is it then consecutive? if the cue ball caroms the red in, it's yellow-red-yellow-yellow
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The initial post said:

'it is possible to legally pocket the same coloured ball on three consecutive shots'

It doesn't state other balls can't also be potted on any of those turns.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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vjmehra said:
The initial post said:

'it is possible to legally pocket the same coloured ball on three consecutive shots'

It doesn't state other balls can't also be potted on any of those turns.
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The "legally" is important because otherwise you could have two consecutive blues with in-offs followed by a pot. Of course both players would be involved unless there were some "play agains". Or, the two players could both pocket the black in while playing reds.

The definition of "pot" is "to pocket a ball legally", so the question could be shortened.
 
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