About Diamond system geometry

straightline said:
I remember a quote that went something like 'You know it works but you need a perfect stroke' or something...
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My favorite quotes come from Yogi.
"Half the game is 85 percent mental." 🤷‍♂️ Having confidence in My System is key.....well for Me. 🤷‍♂️
So Yeah When I am hitting them good.
 
gregcantrall said:
Perhaps you could give some depth to such a Bold Statement.
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Hoppe was a natural player, not a system player. See the quote from McGoorty above. I believe Danny.

Hoppe's book was manufactured by Brunswick. The person who is listed as the editor, Byron Schoeman, did the writing. The stories in it are amusing, but some of them were borrowed from previous tales, such as the blind spectator who enjoyed listening to Hoppe's ball striking. The system was not Hoppe's, but was published by Brunswick at least 10 years before as the Cannefax charts. As an example, Hoppe's diagram 79 is identical, except for redrawing, to the "2" diagram in the Cannefax charts. And that diagram does not work.

Learn about the Seattle Kid's allowances and then look at the broken diagrams again.
 
I just found this diagram that was given to me about 30 years ago.

Jay Bozeman a Top 3C (He finished 2nd or 3rd in more World 3C tournaments than any other player) player in the 'Golden Age' of 3 cushion gave to the person He signed it to.

I'm assuming these were 'His' thoughts on the '5' System.

Don't shoot the messenger!

JayBozeman-5Diamondsystemdiagram.jpg
 
A bit like the photography triangle of aperture/ISO/Shutter speed - you have angle/speed/spin to consider. Everything else is simple geometry. I personally know more than one top player simply describes themselves as using eye/feel (But then I guess subconsciously, is using a system of some kind). I find the markings on the rail helpful, but working in shape and space, can't say it takes more than a cursory glance to figure things out. I find most 'systems' are just someone trying to sound like they invented something that was already quite obvious/plain to see.
 
Flakeandrun said:
A bit like the photography triangle of aperture/ISO/Shutter speed - you have angle/speed/spin to consider. Everything else is simple geometry. I personally know more than one top player simply describes themselves as using eye/feel (But then I guess subconsciously, is using a system of some kind). I find the markings on the rail helpful, but working in shape and space, can't say it takes more than a cursory glance to figure things out. I find most 'systems' are just someone trying to sound like they invented something that was already quite obvious/plain to see.
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Drawing, painting, calligraphy in any language, all are practiced at a very high degree of mind to results congruence. Pool and caroms are no different and only require the one repeated forward stroke of the cue.
 
book collector said:
My memory is pretty shot, but I think I still have some kind of some possible timelines. The first indoor tables were made of wood and some had parquet beds on them, around 1600 . I am not sure if they used it right away but the rails were at one point made up of sail cloth strips .{I f I am not mistaken ,I think Bob Jewett and Bob BYrne made a set of rails for a table they had and played on it with decent results. We know in 1800 Goodyear vulcanized rubber so it probably wasn't long after that they were making table cushions from it, Captain Mingaud was under house arrest and had a pool table at his disposal, not sure if it had sailcloth or rubber rails, my guess would be rubber because of some of the shots in his book. The Noble Game of Billiards written in 1827, he described masse shots draw follow jump shots , basically everything we know about the game he perfected. There is no reason for me to not believe that he had at least some working system for going around the table he was just too clever not to have thought of it. Plus some of his shots are multiple rails with pinpoint accuracy
If not , then at least when Michael Phelan first put the diamonds in the rails for aiming points , sometime in the 1850s there was some knowledge of tracks.
Phelans son in law was Dudley Kavanaugh, a champion after Phelan retired , who then had a nephew who was interested in playing , his name was Maurice Daly, he was one of the first true "billiards" players, and guess who his premiere student was , Willie Hoppe !
I was told Hoppe was a mentor to Harold Worst but I don't think I verified that. So it might be possible that Hoppe invented some type of system, but he was undoubtedly not the first ever. If I made any mistakes feel free to correct them , I am just trying to give a little more depth.
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You say your memory is shot…..and then you start talking about the year 1600 …….how old are you? 🥹
 
pt109 said:
ow old are you? 🥹
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Old enough to know better. Young enough to not care. 🤷‍♂️ Ooops a flashback to the childhood in the 50s. 😉 well still in childhood. Edit: The accurate answer would be, "entered childhood in the early 50s."
 
I am Still striving for the Plays Well With Others badge in the league. The jury's out but it looks doable. Maybe 😉 1st place could be out of reach by now. Guess the Mr Congenial it titty title should be My Goal. 🤷‍♂️ Good morning.
 
KeithS66 said:
Arthur Krenshell
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Never heard of him. I only briefly visited the 211 in Seattle. I understand T Rink had significant 3 cushion knowledge.
Well my visits to the 211 usually involved cheap last pocket 8 ball lessons with the senior member.
My use of The Book involved adapting skills and methods to a different playing field.
A tell I noticed when a big table player visited my bar table relm was scratching in the side when navigation around the table.
A favorite compliment came from a 211 fixture. When I navigated 3 rails through the 7 blockers and fell on ball in hand on the 8 ball. Going across the line! 😉 "I didn't know you could shoot ". 🤷‍♂️ 😉 I just got lucky.
 
gregcantrall said:
Never heard of him. I only briefly visited the 211 in Seattle. I understand T Rink had significant 3 cushion knowledge.
Well my visits to the 211 usually involved cheap last pocket 8 ball lessons with the senior member.
My use of The Book involved adapting skills and methods to a different playing field.
A tell I noticed when a big table player visited my bar table relm was scratching in the side when navigation around the table.
A favorite compliment came from a 211 fixture. When I navigated 3 rails through the 7 blockers and fell on ball in hand on the 8 ball. Going across the line! 😉 "I didn't know you could shoot ". 🤷‍♂️ 😉 I just got lucky.
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How'd you ever lose a game!
 
My search for my Byrne's reference books yielded the remains of my billiards library.
20250321_082750.jpg

The emphasis on The Basics definitely came from Hoppe. The cueball last being the choice of Stephen Hendry reinforced my decision to make the switch. I mean Mosconi did Okay 😉 the other way.
Ooops the Miz gave it to Jackie. We did have a nice evening playing darts.
20250321_083534.jpg

I did break and run on him in the Sunday $5 eight ball tournament. 🤷‍♂️
 
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