i have to ask. I"m a fairly good player but i have a sub par stroke. I've noticed that great players seem to continuely push through cue ball while shooting. I mean if you really pay attention, the sound of pocketed balls is different. You can tell the difference between players sometimes just by the sound of the pocketed balls. Does anybody know what i'm talking about? Is it simply the pros follow through longer and smoother than the regular players? Is there any tips that the forum has or can they explain what i'm talking about.
accelerating through the ball??
- Thread starter clint3612
- Start date
It Ain't Rocket Surgery
A sub par stroke is one that rarely hits the cue ball where you think it will, a good stroke is one that usually hits the cue ball where you think it will, and a great stoke is one that just about always hits the cue ball where you think it will. That's about all there is to the stroke, except for the years of learning how to do it.
The followthrough is just a way to be sure you hit the spot you think you will.
The sound you hear is balls hitting the backs of pockets rather than ricocheting off the sides.
Stroke mythology is everywhere. Don't let it distract you from the essentials. Learning to stroke straight is plenty of challenge for anybody.
pj
chgo
A sub par stroke is one that rarely hits the cue ball where you think it will, a good stroke is one that usually hits the cue ball where you think it will, and a great stoke is one that just about always hits the cue ball where you think it will. That's about all there is to the stroke, except for the years of learning how to do it.
The followthrough is just a way to be sure you hit the spot you think you will.
The sound you hear is balls hitting the backs of pockets rather than ricocheting off the sides.
Stroke mythology is everywhere. Don't let it distract you from the essentials. Learning to stroke straight is plenty of challenge for anybody.
pj
chgo
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Pat, isn't follow through the part of the stroke AFTER contact?Patrick Johnson said:
OP, follow through is just a way to be sure you don't waste energy. Follow through is the RESULT of a good stroke, not the REASON for a good stroke.
-djb <-- agrees with Pat, stroke mythology is everywhere
Spf
Try freezing at the finish of your stroke and take note of where the tip is as well as your back hand. Do not drop your elbow in an attempt to "follow through". This is an artificial motion and serves no essential purpose. Your back hand should finish near your arm pit and the tip should be level, or pointing down. A good example is DoomCues avatar. Nice finish position! I'm not a master instuctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.clint3612 said:
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S
Snoogi
Guest
Different people may have different versions but looking at physics, throughout the duration of the follow through, the cuetip is in full contact with the cueball until it leaves for the different spins. That's what I understand.
Snoogi said:
Bob Jewett was involved in a experiment which showed that the cue tip is in contact with the cue ball for something like one thousandth of a second.
I think following through ensures that you finish your stroke. If you intend to stop the tip at the moment of contact, you have to begin de-accelerating before you contact the ball. This reduces the amount of speed and accuracy in your stroke.
Don't try to hit the cue ball, just stroke the cue and cue ball will simply get in the way.
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Snoogi
Guest
Well experiment, that's really a scary split of a second. In reality when we get down on the table we never take notice of such details..but only focus on a straight and smooth stroke..Cameron Smith said:
Accelerating through the cb
On soft shots, make sure that your backswing isn't as large as on hard shots. If you pull back too far, you will follow through too slowly.
On soft shots, make sure that your backswing isn't as large as on hard shots. If you pull back too far, you will follow through too slowly.
Your description of Pushing Through is the Sensation or Feel I have when in stroke.DoomCue said:
If you're not stroking through the ball you're simply slapping or punching the ball. As said above follow through is the result of a good stroke not the reason.
How I describe how to get this is to try to keep the tip on the ball as long as possible. Bob Jewett has looked at this and determined no significant increase in contact time but I submit that the Feel is what's important.
One pitfall when learning this is getting into Steering the CB. Watch Out.
If your a golfer, compare it to that. It's not all about hitting hard, it's about being smooth and accelerating through the ball, with good contact. Same with the pool stroke. Hit your spot on the cue ball that you actually want to, be smooth, and accelerate through the ball. A good test to prove this, shoot a draw shot really hard, note where the cue ball goes. Now shoot the same shot at about 50%, but slow your back swing down, and accelerate through with a smooth stroke. Watch the action. You'll be surprised. Smooth and accelerating through makes all the difference, especially when you want lots of spin on the cue ball.
You said it yourself: followthrough is part of the whole stroke, and the rest of the stroke changes without it. As Cameron said, you'd have to "brake" your stroke before contact in order to eliminate the followthrough, and that would most likely throw your accuracy off.
I disagree. Followthrough is a major part of how a good (accurate) stroke is produced. It's definitely not "just a way to be sure you don't waste energy". However, I agree that followthrough doesn't do anything special for the hit - it just ensures accuracy.
Amen, brother.
pj
chgo
I believe the important part of this message is "hit the spot on the cue ball that you actually want to". "Accelerating through" is a mental image that helps you make your stroke more smooth, straight and accurate, but doesn't by itself do anything special for draw or any other kind of hit. It just helps you hit the cue ball where you want to, which is the only thing necessary (or possible, for that matter) for draw or any other kind of cue ball action.
pj
chgo
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"Simply slapping or punching the ball" feels exactly the same to the ball as any other kind of hit. The key is where you hit the ball, and the key to that is how you stroke. The nature of the hit (slap, punch, "accelerating through", or what-have-you) is irrelevant except for its effect on tip/ball accuracy. I can build a robot (if you have the money) that will hit the cue ball with no followthrough and get precisely the same action you can with any kind of human stroke.
pj
chgo
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Length of Follow Through
I hope what I've been taught may explain what you are referring to. I used to be a consistent "poker." I poked at the ball all the time and so I never understood why I couldn't get the action on the ball I wanted. It's as if the harder I hit the ball, the more the cue ball died.
My coach then told me that it isn't how hard you hit the ball that'll send the cue ball distance, but rather how far you follow through with your stroke. Thus, if you want the cue ball to go a short distance, you follow through the cue ball a short amount and if you want it to travel a further distance, you extend your follow through. (Just to clarify, by follow through I mean the distance the cue extends after it makes contact with the cue ball.)
I had been training myself to believe that my MUSCLES would put action on the cue. This couldn't be further from the truth, at least for me! My coach taught me to have the same stroke virtually all the time. (Obviously some shots demand more muscle, but the majority of them do not.) It seems illogical that the softer you hit the cue, the MORE action you get on it, but that is what allows the various types of english I use to take effect. The poking I was doing was really stunning the cue ball. So I learned to used the same stroke every time and to simply adjust my follow through to put more or less action on the cue ball. It's done wonders for my game and consistency and not hitting the ball with muscle has helped me stay down on my shots.
Perhaps this is why you see the pros hit the cue ball in the same manner with the same sound virtually every shot. Hope this helps.
I hope what I've been taught may explain what you are referring to. I used to be a consistent "poker." I poked at the ball all the time and so I never understood why I couldn't get the action on the ball I wanted. It's as if the harder I hit the ball, the more the cue ball died.
My coach then told me that it isn't how hard you hit the ball that'll send the cue ball distance, but rather how far you follow through with your stroke. Thus, if you want the cue ball to go a short distance, you follow through the cue ball a short amount and if you want it to travel a further distance, you extend your follow through. (Just to clarify, by follow through I mean the distance the cue extends after it makes contact with the cue ball.)
I had been training myself to believe that my MUSCLES would put action on the cue. This couldn't be further from the truth, at least for me! My coach taught me to have the same stroke virtually all the time. (Obviously some shots demand more muscle, but the majority of them do not.) It seems illogical that the softer you hit the cue, the MORE action you get on it, but that is what allows the various types of english I use to take effect. The poking I was doing was really stunning the cue ball. So I learned to used the same stroke every time and to simply adjust my follow through to put more or less action on the cue ball. It's done wonders for my game and consistency and not hitting the ball with muscle has helped me stay down on my shots.
Perhaps this is why you see the pros hit the cue ball in the same manner with the same sound virtually every shot. Hope this helps.
clint3612 said:
I do. My buddy and I quite often say, "Man, that sounded like a real pool shot!" A kinda "ka-thump" sound. Or "ti-pah."
And, yeah, it sounds better when you're in stroke. Don't know why. It could be that everything sounds better when you're in stroke.
9-ball speed seems to make a better sound, but 8-ball speed can do it, too.I sometimes use sound as a valuable feedback mechanism when I observe, analyze, and integrate the results of a shot. And sometimes I just use it for confidence on my next shot. Except for that "ka-tink" of a miscue!
Either way, it can help, imho. Jeff Livingston
As usual it's nearly impossible to put into words what needs to be demonstrated.Patrick Johnson said:
Smoothness in stroke IMO derives from the ability to Accurately Control the acceleration phase.
It would be interesting to compare the results of setting your robot to stop the stroke at the moment of contact vs continuing through an additional 6 inches.
Maybe I'm decieving myself but I swear that I achieve much more english with a smooth stroke vs a choppy one even if the chop a follow through.
Maybe it's just all in my head and I should just stop thinking about it and hit the ball.
3kushn said:
I agree with you 3kushn. Having a choppy stroke does not give you the same consistent action the way a smooth stroke does. IMO, pool is a finesse game measured in millimeters, not a muscle game! Look at Santos. That guy can't weigh 100 lbs soppy wet, and yet he breaks the balls like Godzilla. (Jude, no "comparing Santos to Godzilla threads" ok!) It's about his form, not his muscles. It's a smooth deliberate follow through in his break that, IMO puts that action on the cue ball and the break.
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DoomCue said:
Absolutely Dave. Or, in other words...followthrough is not something we MAKE happen...it is the result of a great finish on your stroke!
BTW, for those that don't understand followthrough, it will be the SAME distance past the CB for any shot that is a normal part of playing pool. Even if your bridge distance varies, your finish distance (or followthrough) will remain consistent, as long as you adjust your grip the same amount you adjust your bridge.Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com