Why is anyone concerned with mph or acceleration? Who on earth decelerates when stroking? Worry about that when you're playing, and you'd never make a ball.
accelerating through the ball??
- Thread starter clint3612
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Snoogi
Guest
To be very precise, the stick doesn't start at 10mph but at 0mph first. Until it touches the ball, then it's 10mph, or supposedly the speed we want. Also precisely the reason why there're over-draws and under-draws, because the stick simply didn't hit the ball at the correct speed..
Why be concerned about anything? Why not just play?
You do. Everybody does.
Good thing we do our worrying here on AZB then.
pj
chgo
Patrick Johnson said:
Ask any pro about the mph of their stroke speed or about stroke acceleration/deceleration while playing and they'd piss their pants laughing at you.
mikepage said:
It was made to sound like the stroke speed was changing during the actual "hit" on the ball. A hit is a hit and is constant with the speed of the stroke prior to the impact. The speed has to come before the shot.
Before I say something here that I may not be certain of, could someone give me an instance whereas a player might be decelerating their shot.
S
Snoogi
Guest
Very slippery, I slipped in..I took physics but I'm not a physicist..tpdtom said:Bunch of physicists here...Tom
klockdoc said:
OK. If your bridge is so long that your speed maxes out before you hit the cue ball, then you're decelerating when you hit it.
Think of a bell curve. The top of the curve is maximum velocity and is the flattest, most consistent speed on the entire curve ('cept zero). If you strike the cb at the top of the curve, because that part of the curve is the longest, time wise, you will have a much better chance of hitting the desired speed than if you hit the cb when your speed is accelerating (leading edge of curve) or decelerating (trailing edge of curve).
Sense?
Jeff Livingston
Edit: Whoops! the cue hits the cb not the ob...sometimes anyway!
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The physics is straight forward- anatomy is not
I've had fun reading the thread and think that the soft issue that I haven't seen surface is that my stroke is more than physics. The physics I understand, and those that don't probably won't and don't care because at the end of the day you can still play a great game without it. The physics at the point of contact is all set up by the stroking motion I initiate with the muscles in my arm.
In focusing on smooth acceleration through the ball I am using mostly bicep and some muscles in the forearm. Any other muscles that I have tension in tend to oppose this motion. Hence the conventional wisdom to grip the cue lightly. If I start to decelerate the cue I switch muscle groups- which wouldn't be a problem if the muscles I'm using are in perfect alignment with my stroke, but they're not. Believe it or not, my arm is designed to do more than play pool.
So, by increasing the number of muscles that come into play in my stroke, I increase the likelihood that it will go offline at the moment of contact. Worse yet, and I still have this issue when I strike hard, my arm is not in isolation and the rest of my body has to react the force of accelerating or decelerating the cue to my bridge hand and feet. Accelerate or decelerate too quickly and I jerk- it is not isolated to my arm.
So, in order to hit the cueball where I want most consistently, use a minimum number of muscle groups with smooth accelration and deceleration (finishing the stroke). Avoiding tension in my arm and wrist promotes this as well.
My 0.02,
Steve
I've had fun reading the thread and think that the soft issue that I haven't seen surface is that my stroke is more than physics. The physics I understand, and those that don't probably won't and don't care because at the end of the day you can still play a great game without it. The physics at the point of contact is all set up by the stroking motion I initiate with the muscles in my arm.
In focusing on smooth acceleration through the ball I am using mostly bicep and some muscles in the forearm. Any other muscles that I have tension in tend to oppose this motion. Hence the conventional wisdom to grip the cue lightly. If I start to decelerate the cue I switch muscle groups- which wouldn't be a problem if the muscles I'm using are in perfect alignment with my stroke, but they're not. Believe it or not, my arm is designed to do more than play pool.
So, by increasing the number of muscles that come into play in my stroke, I increase the likelihood that it will go offline at the moment of contact. Worse yet, and I still have this issue when I strike hard, my arm is not in isolation and the rest of my body has to react the force of accelerating or decelerating the cue to my bridge hand and feet. Accelerate or decelerate too quickly and I jerk- it is not isolated to my arm.So, in order to hit the cueball where I want most consistently, use a minimum number of muscle groups with smooth accelration and deceleration (finishing the stroke). Avoiding tension in my arm and wrist promotes this as well.
My 0.02,
Steve
chefjeff said:
I watched a player at my local room last week. He has been reading lots of books, has been paying lots of attention to his mechanics... still body... no elbow drop... pendulum stroke... forearm vertical at set position...
BUT --and he had no idea he was doing this-- his tip at his set position was about an inch and a half from the cueball. So he was actually hitting the ball in the trailing edge of the curve as you call it. Is his cue decelerating there? I don't know for sure, but it's a reasonable guess....
mikepage said:
Perhaps his vision is affecting this. I recently moved my tip closer to the Cue ball, as per Scott Lee, but my bad eyes couldn't tell just how close. So I kept fouling by touching the cb.
I've since moved it back a little bit to avoid this problem. Also, I adjusted by grip position a touch.When you're in your stance, it's kind of hard to see the gap between the tip and cb. From the side, it's easy.
Oh...I think your reasonable guess is right on.
Jeff Livingston
Really? Do all the pros you know have this incontinence problem?
pj
chgo
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chefjeff said:
I understand all that. What I asked is why would someone purposely decelerate as some are suggesting?
mikepage said:
That is my point. I think some are confusing the issue here, (or at least I am confused with the statements), with the acceleration and deceleration when we are speaking of hitting the cue ball. Two different items. One, you should be properly lined up in your stance and at the bottom of the pendelum stroke and before going forward with your arm, you should be striking the cue ball. If not, then you should address that item.
Some are making it sound like there is an instance when you are purposely accelerating, or, decelerating when you are actually hitting the ball. JMO
S
Snoogi
Guest
Actually it's fairly straightforward, when we're playing we just stroke naturally according to our physical mechanisms. Just that for the purpose of physics discussion, we confuse ourselves by dismantling the stroke down to segments that's all..klockdoc said:
Snoogi said:
Okay, just confusing to some that are not "UP" on all the physics as some. (Like me)...
But, shouldn't you mention somewhere in the discussion that when this is happening and I would assume that it happens to all players that aren't aware of it, that this can be corrected by moving their backhand forward or back on the end of the cue to correct it?
Otherwise, people that aren't up on the "segments" of the stroke as you are can benefit by it. JMO
thanks for the info
clint3612 said:
It sounds different because pros hardly "slam" on the cue ball.
Who suggested that? The only reason I know of is if you need a short followthrough for some special purpose, like to avoid double hitting the cue ball. Otherwise deceleration is a normal, but not purposeful, part of stroking.
pj
chgo
Patrick Johnson said:
Patrick Johnson said:
Patrick Johnson said:
I am not trying to be argumentative here, even though it appears that way. Just a slow learner. You mention that you can only think of one instance, but, then go on to mention that it is a normal part of the game.
Which is it?
On a safe shot, wouldn't you decelerate after contact to avoid a double hit? If I try to decelerate prior to hitting the cue ball, this just puts another variable in the equation.
Maybe I decelerated too fast and I did not get the safe.
Maybe I decelerated too late and got the double hit.
Or, are you just saying that it is a phenomenon that occurs as part of playing and there isn't a need to address it other than in certain shots?
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This doesn't suggest that it's done purposely (although a few are).
I can only think of one instance it's done on purpose. Otherwise it's a normal but not purposeful part of the game.
Maybe you should read these things twice.
pj
chgo