Add this Drill to Your Workouts

[strmanglr scott]

You are probably really good at it. It's a fascinating drill in that any change in distance between the balls and the firmness of the stroke calls for very precise tip changes on the CB. In the first stage, using a rolling CB, to move the CB 6", 12', 18", etc and a stroke just hard enough is the easiest. Then when we move to a moderate firm stroke for all the distances, the tip must come off the top of the CB and the action is almost all in the middle (as you know).
Have you found your skill in this invaluable in your position play?

The struggle is to make it follow, draw and stop perfectly in line. Really forces the player to hit perfect on the target spot.

It's critical for play. Once a player learns draw and can control it this is the next step if you want to get shape. A player needs to control the stun line. Follow, stop and draw is the way to do that.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I prefer to do this drill with drawing back the cue ball in the hole. Stroke imperfections are easier to spot with draw since you have to hit the ball firmer.

The stop shot drill can be more challenging if you push yourself to perform a perfect stop shot, by placing a hole reinforce under the OB, and the, check the final position of the CB with another OB placed on that donut. Perfect position counts not close.

I am also a big fan of Bert Kinisters shot #1 in his 60 minute workout. There was a time when I did that shot for hours.

Another one I like doesn't require ball pocketing, it is a variation of the updown drill, except put an OB near the head rail and drive it into the rail and back out so it hits the CB square, Start easy half a diamond from the head rail, then work your way further away.

I don't know of a better drill for stroke stoke straightening and CCB than setting up the OB on the diagonal at head string to the corner pocket and the OB on same at foot string. Try to follow the OB into the hole. Use the measel ball and look for spin. Do this about 50 times each practice session.

 

[Bobkitty]

I prefer to do this drill with drawing back the cue ball in the hole. Stroke imperfections are easier to spot with draw since you have to hit the ball firmer.

The stop shot drill can be more challenging if you push yourself to perform a perfect stop shot, by placing a hole reinforce under the OB, and the, check the final position of the CB with another OB placed on that donut. Perfect position counts not close.

I am also a big fan of Bert Kinisters shot #1 in his 60 minute workout. There was a time when I did that shot for hours.

Another one I like doesn't require ball pocketing, it is a variation of the updown drill, except put an OB near the head rail and drive it into the rail and back out so it hits the CB square, Start easy half a diamond from the head rail, then work your way further away.

Thanks for your response. The point of learning this drill (stop shot + a little bit), is so we can maneuver the CB a little forward of the tangent line for shape when we have an angle off the OB. Of course, that doesn't show up in the straight on shot, but it's the same hit on the CB at the same distance, to make the CB go off at say.... 80 degrees instead of the 90 degree tangent. In the video, I'm only using abut a 2.5 speed for the different distances between the balls, but it should be learned at all speeds and all distances. In the video, I've had to move the tip ever so slightly lower as the distance between the balls increases and that is the skill we are striving to learn. I've had one instructor say learning this is not necessary and is over rated. I emphatically disagree!
Another important drill is to find out how soft you can hit a complete stop shot with the donuts laid out to see. I think everyone can hit the stop shot at warp speed. Set the balls up so that they are two diamonds apart to start and aimed at a slight angle into the foot rail. Make the CB stop at the softest speed you can and count the number of diamonds the OB travels to a stop. This will vary on different tables of course, but my record is 7.5 diamonds of travel for the OB on Simonis 860HR. Make sure you are not cheating and the CB is a complete stop behind the line of the OB. Even a little cheat 1/4" over the line will skew the results unfairly.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

As you said doing all of these drills at different speeds and distances is essential.

I could not agree more.

Thanks for your response. The point of learning this drill (stop shot + a little bit), is so we can maneuver the CB a little forward of the tangent line for shape when we have an angle off the OB. Of course, that doesn't show up in the straight on shot, but it's the same hit on the CB at the same distance, to make the CB go off at say.... 80 degrees instead of the 90 degree tangent. In the video, I'm only using abut a 2.5 speed for the different distances between the balls, but it should be learned at all speeds and all distances. In the video, I've had to move the tip ever so slightly lower as the distance between the balls increases and that is the skill we are striving to learn. I've had one instructor say learning this is not necessary and is over rated. I emphatically disagree!
Another important drill is to find out how soft you can hit a complete stop shot with the donuts laid out to see. I think everyone can hit the stop shot at warp speed. Set the balls up so that they are two diamonds apart to start and aimed at a slight angle into the foot rail. Make the CB stop at the softest speed you can and count the number of diamonds the OB travels to a stop. This will vary on different tables of course, but my record is 7.5 diamonds of travel for the OB on Simonis 860HR. Make sure you are not cheating and the CB is a complete stop behind the line of the OB. Even a little cheat 1/4" over the line will skew the results unfairly.

 

[alstl]

It is probably more important is some games than others but it is important. The ability to cheat the pocket and finesse a shot not only ahead but to the side slightly is also important. Especially in a game like 14.1 where you are trying to create angles to go into balls.

 

[Bobkitty]

It is probably more important is some games than others but it is important. The ability to cheat the pocket and finesse a shot not only ahead but to the side slightly is also important. Especially in a game like 14.1 where you are trying to create angles to go into balls.

If all one knows is follow, draw and stop shot, they are leaving a lot of angles in between off the OB to chance. Some have indicated those three are enough.

 

[strmanglr scott]

It is probably more important is some games than others but it is important. The ability to cheat the pocket and finesse a shot not only ahead but to the side slightly is also important. Especially in a game like 14.1 where you are trying to create angles to go into balls.

Lol, now your starting a whole other thing, cheat pocket no english, then add english and cheat the pocket.

that's just sic.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Enough? Hardly. I hope you did not get that impression from my post. But I will say that until one can deliver a straight stroke, at all distances and speed, the first time, on demand and under pressure we don't get into shots like these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7qV8Anmik0

or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZHZ2291C5o


As Bert Kinister says, the difference between a good player and a great player is the quality of their stroke.

Let me put it another way, when you first learned to ride a bike did you learn to ride by going in a circle or going straight ahead?

If all one knows is follow, draw and stop shot, they are leaving a lot of angles in between off the OB to chance. Some have indicated those three are enough.

 

[strmanglr scott]

If all one knows is follow, draw and stop shot, they are leaving a lot of angles in between off the OB to chance. Some have indicated those three are enough.

Completely the contrary.

You have to be able to draw, follow and stop perfectly straight, at least w high consistency, to Know what those other angles are capable of.

If a player can't do that drill with great consistency then off angle cheat shots are a guess for leave. If you do a draw drill w a straight in shot from various distances and ur all over the place rt and left for the draw, ur not hiting the center of the ob or your stroke is off, or you misaligned the shot.

 

[Bobkitty]

Enough? Hardly. I hope you did not get that impression from my post.

No, not you. I think you agreed with me that the drills in the OP are indeed important skills to learn. Another instructor on AZB via PMs says the stop shot is way more important and what I'm doing is not needed and over rated. I agree with him about the importance of the pure stop shot but I think they are equally important skills to workon and put in the quiver.

 

[Bobkitty]

Wasn't germane to the subject

 

[Low500]

I prefer to do this drill with drawing back the cue ball in the hole. Stroke imperfections are easier to spot with draw since you have to hit the ball firmer.
The stop shot drill can be more challenging if you push yourself to perform a perfect stop shot, by placing a hole reinforce under the OB, and the, check the final position of the CB with another OB placed on that donut. Perfect position counts not close.
I am also a big fan of Bert Kinisters shot #1 in his 60 minute workout. There was a time when I did that shot for hours.
Another one I like doesn't require ball pocketing, it is a variation of the updown drill, except put an OB near the head rail and drive it into the rail and back out so it hits the CB square, Start easy half a diamond from the head rail, then work your way further away.

You are so right!
As Kinister says.........."that shot will create a stroke where there is no stroke".
I use it daily, as a training tool to stay in top shape. Have been training with it for years and years. Just like a boxer uses roadwork.
Every single day, I shoot it 100 times. (as he says, most people will not believe what it can do for their game). Some days I may just shoot only that one shot for 2-3 hours.
That complete workout (combined with CTE aiming, which I recently picked up on), has won me a lot of prize money.

 

[Dave-Kat]

A older much wiser Teammate of mine suggested I introduce drill / practice stop shots into my practice sessions a few weeks ago.

Told me I would get at 3 balls better with practice. He was correct or possibly under estimated. My win average have greatly increased over superior players since I really now can confidently introduce a good stop as needed. I am a little stop 'sloppy' on a long shot on 9' Table. Need to hit allot more balls.

Great suggestions, great suggestions and opinions and Good post.

-Kat,

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Ding Dong Daddy!

:thumbup:

You are so right!
As Kinister says.........."that shot will create a stroke where there is no stroke".
I use it daily, as a training tool to stay in top shape. Have been training with it for years and years. Just like a boxer uses roadwork.
Every single day, I shoot it 100 times. (as he says, most people will not believe what it can do for their game). Some days I may just shoot only that one shot for 2-3 hours.
That complete workout (combined with CTE aiming, which I recently picked up on), has won me a lot of prize money.

 

[Bobkitty]

I am also a big fan of Bert Kinisters shot #1 in his 60 minute workout. There was a time when I did that shot for hours.

I don't have his workout. Can you explain how to set up his shot #1? Thanks

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Best heard and seen from the man himself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRHbgzNYIw4&list=PLJrdKLgRoZm5cBdI8_SSRH27pmKYfUs2Z&index=5

I don't have his workout. Can you explain how to set up his shot #1? Thanks

 

[Bobkitty]

Best heard and seen from the man himself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRHbgzNYIw4&list=PLJrdKLgRoZm5cBdI8_SSRH27pmKYfUs2Z&index=5

Yes, About the same drill as mine, but I agree hitting the "replacement" ball drill is great, however hitting the center of the CB and the OB to CB distance of 4 diamonds, to get it done is only one speed over and over. At the speed he's hitting, I believe he's slightly below center on the CB. I think it should be practiced at all speeds and that means varying the CB hit from the bottom to the middle. Hitting that same shot as soft as possible is also a very important skill and stroke reveal-er. Change the distance between the balls and you've got a complete different set of CB hits and speeds to the drill. I'm talking about a lot of work here! Whew!
I realize he is using it as a "stroke trainer", but another value of the drill is to learn how a 1/64th change of hit around the center of the CB can make these little bitty changes to CB action after contact.

 

[Low500]

Yes, About the same drill as mine, but I agree hitting the "replacement" ball drill is great, however hitting the center of the CB and the OB to CB distance of 4 diamonds, to get it done is only one speed over and over. At the speed he's hitting, I believe he's slightly below center on the CB. I think it should be practiced at all speeds and that means varying the CB hit from the bottom to the middle. Hitting that same shot as soft as possible is also a very important skill and stroke reveal-er. Change the distance between the balls and you've got a complete different set of CB hits and speeds to the drill. I'm talking about a lot of work here! Whew!

The purpose of the speed over and over is to develop that special feel of a center ball hit. Do it 100 times a day...then separate the balls further, in different positions all over the table, and keep shooting the shot. Niels Feijen, one of his students, said he must've shot that number #1 more than 75,000 times.
Kinister's drills will build a game. Then when you go into competition there is little thought about "what to do". The mind simply recognizes a shot as say...shot #3, says to itself, "oh I've done this shot many times", and then executes. The same themes and routines come up over and over and over in pool games.
By the way, when doing shot #1, he also advocates a drill of SLOW rolling the cueball into the object ball and slow following the OB into the pocket right behind the OB.
These are stroke builders and brain exercises. They pay off in competition.
As Kinister likes to say............"Ding Dong Daddy, I got the cash and my opponent is looking at the want ads". :thumbup:

 

[Bobkitty]

The purpose of the speed over and over is to develop that special feel of a center ball hit. Do it 100 times a day...then separate the balls further, in different positions all over the table, and keep shooting the shot. Niels Feijen, one of his students, said he must've shot that number #1 more than 75,000 times.
Kinister's drills will build a game. Then when you go into competition there is little thought about "what to do". The mind simply recognizes a shot as say...shot #3, says to itself, "oh I've done this shot many times", and then executes. The same themes and routines come up over and over and over in pool games.
By the way, when doing shot #1, he also advocates a drill of SLOW rolling the cueball into the object ball and slow following the OB into the pocket right behind the OB.
These are stroke builders and brain exercises. They pay off in competition.
As Kinister likes to say............"Ding Dong Daddy, I got the cash and my opponent is looking at the want ads". :thumbup:

All good stuff! Thanks for a very constructive thread (in my humble opinion). My point in posting the thread was that the (stop shot plus a little bit) is a very important skill to learn for tangent players. Learning this is a peek into how the angle off of tangent can be varied and used to miss obstruction balls or hit the clusters. It turned into a "stroke training" kind of shot and the comments prove it (the skill) can be both.

 

[Low500]

Ding Dong Daddy!
:thumbup:

"Ding Dong Daddy...I got the cash and my opponent is looking at the want ads."

:thumbup: