Adjusting to a new tip

Hardness won't matter at break speed... Gotcha... Now show me where they don't use a firm stroke to eliminate other variables.. You know variables like rate of rebound, spring rate, contact time, contact patch size... You know those things that make a soft tip different than a hard tip... double /boggle.....

I have played with anything from a Lepro to a Kamui soft, and in my personal opinion, I have never been able to tell a difference in the amount of spin created from either tip. I do think it feels a little different, but the results have always been the same, and please understand that there was no bias involved. I fully expected the Kamui soft to spin the ball more, but it just didn't happen. Maybe that comes from a poor stroke in general. I don't claim to be a great player, but I can draw the CB the length of the table when needed. I would say that it has become my anecdotal opinion that different tips don't spin the ball more than others, and now science appears to back that up. I am not looking to argue or suggesting that I can't be wrong, however every shaft and tip that I have been told will spin the ball more has never done so, and so far that has been backed up by science.

Spin appears to be dependent on two things: the accuracy of your stroke, and a well chalked tip. A quick review as stated by Dr. Dave is listed below for anyone interested.

Dr. Dave:
There is no question that a harder tip "feels" different and provides different "feedback" (a softer tip typically dampens the impact a little and the force of the hit isn't felt as strongly). It is also true that a harder tip can result in a more efficient hit, providing more speed to the CB for a given cue speed. And it is true that with slower CB speed, more backspin will wear off on the way to the OB with a draw shot and more sidespin will wear off on the way to the cushion with a sidespin shot (especially on slow and sticky cloth with slower shot speed). These effects might make it seem like a softer tip is applying less spin to the CB. Regardless, the quality of spin (i.e., the spin-speed ratio) delivered to the CB depends only on the tip contact-point offset from center. The physics on this is very clear. If anybody doubts this, they should do a careful and objective experiment to compare any tips they think would produce different results. For those who have math and physics backgrounds and are interested, the physics showing how the spin-to-speed ratio depends only on tip offset from center, even when accounting for tip efficiency, can be found in TP A.30 - The effects of cue tip offset, cue weight, and cue speed on cue ball speed and spin.

Some people think that because a soft tip stays in contact with the CB slightly longer (see contact time), a soft tip can apply more spin. However, see Bob Jewett's comments below. Also, the contact time is still extremely small with both a soft and hard tip: close to a thousandth of a second (0.001 sec). Assuming the CB speed is the same in all comparisons, even though the peak force will be different (more with the shorter contact time), the amount of momentum (linear and angular) transferred to the CB will still be the same (because the sum of force over contact time is the same in both cases). The CB doesn't move much (translation or spin) during the extremely small contact time, so the only significant factor is the tip contact point at impact.

Now, it is possible that a hard tip, especially if it is not holding chalk very well, will have a smaller miscue limit than a soft tip that is holding chalk well. In this case, the soft tip will enable a player to apply more spin to the CB since the tip contact point can be farther from the CB's center without resulting in a miscue.
 
I have always played with a hard tip and have them almost cut in half when having a new tip put on. I recently just had a Kamui super soft tip put on, becasue I have had several players speak highly of them.

The first session I played with it, I was over spinning everything. When I cut a ball I naturally use a tad of outside english when I can. I was jarring way more balls than normal becasue of the extra spin on the cue ball.

I'm sure I will get used to it over time, but right now I am tempted to cut it off and go back to a harder tip. Curious what others have done?

The only reason I tried a soft tip was occasionally if I had to really load the ball up with some shit, I would miss cue. I will deal with the occasional miss cue to have my percentage of balls pocketed goes back to normal....

I tried a kamui ss myself. It was like playing with a pillow at the end of my cue. I had no feel on the harder shots and I was overspinning everything. I play a "soft" game to start with, but even I thought this was a bit much. I guess I go by sound sometimes, and with the soft tip there isn't much sound to go on, so I kind of lose feel. When shooting a firm stun shot I want to both feel and hear the strike, if the tip is too soft I can't do either.

Tips are such an individual thing. Personally I sometimes miscue with the harder tips, I don't like the softer ones for the reason I mentioned, so I use a Medium Moori, which I feel is the best of both worlds.
 
I have played with anything from a Lepro to a Kamui soft, and in my personal opinion, I have never been able to tell a difference in the amount of spin created from either tip. I do think it feels a little different, but the results have always been the same, and please understand that there was no bias involved. I fully expected the Kamui soft to spin the ball more, but it just didn't happen. Maybe that comes from a poor stroke in general. I don't claim to be a great player, but I can draw the CB the length of the table when needed. I would say that it has become my anecdotal opinion that different tips don't spin the ball more than others, and now science appears to back that up. I am not looking to argue or suggesting that I can't be wrong, however every shaft and tip that I have been told will spin the ball more has never done so, and so far that has been backed up by science.

Spin appears to be dependent on two things: the accuracy of your stroke, and a well chalked tip. A quick review as stated by Dr. Dave is listed below for anyone interested.

Dr. Dave:
There is no question that a harder tip "feels" different and provides different "feedback" (a softer tip typically dampens the impact a little and the force of the hit isn't felt as strongly). It is also true that a harder tip can result in a more efficient hit, providing more speed to the CB for a given cue speed. And it is true that with slower CB speed, more backspin will wear off on the way to the OB with a draw shot and more sidespin will wear off on the way to the cushion with a sidespin shot (especially on slow and sticky cloth with slower shot speed). These effects might make it seem like a softer tip is applying less spin to the CB. Regardless, the quality of spin (i.e., the spin-speed ratio) delivered to the CB depends only on the tip contact-point offset from center. The physics on this is very clear. If anybody doubts this, they should do a careful and objective experiment to compare any tips they think would produce different results. For those who have math and physics backgrounds and are interested, the physics showing how the spin-to-speed ratio depends only on tip offset from center, even when accounting for tip efficiency, can be found in TP A.30 - The effects of cue tip offset, cue weight, and cue speed on cue ball speed and spin.

Some people think that because a soft tip stays in contact with the CB slightly longer (see contact time), a soft tip can apply more spin. However, see Bob Jewett's comments below. Also, the contact time is still extremely small with both a soft and hard tip: close to a thousandth of a second (0.001 sec). Assuming the CB speed is the same in all comparisons, even though the peak force will be different (more with the shorter contact time), the amount of momentum (linear and angular) transferred to the CB will still be the same (because the sum of force over contact time is the same in both cases). The CB doesn't move much (translation or spin) during the extremely small contact time, so the only significant factor is the tip contact point at impact.

Now, it is possible that a hard tip, especially if it is not holding chalk very well, will have a smaller miscue limit than a soft tip that is holding chalk well. In this case, the soft tip will enable a player to apply more spin to the CB since the tip contact point can be farther from the CB's center without resulting in a miscue.


We have heard this ad nauseam... The fact of the matter is they are still saying contact time is 1ms and is the same on hard vs soft tips.. This was 100% erroneous assumption or the results of some bad tests..

There are high speed videos out of Russia showing a medium moori exceeding 2ms at slower speeds where a hard tip will stay close to the same contact time thruout stroke speeds... And that would lead to a soft and super soft extending those times even further...

When one premise is completely false in an analysis that is one of the primary observations the whole thing needs to be tossed out and reevaluation needs to take place....
 
I have always played with a hard tip and have them almost cut in half when having a new tip put on. I recently just had a Kamui super soft tip put on, becasue I have had several players speak highly of them.

The first session I played with it, I was over spinning everything. When I cut a ball I naturally use a tad of outside english when I can. I was jarring way more balls than normal becasue of the extra spin on the cue ball.

I'm sure I will get used to it over time, but right now I am tempted to cut it off and go back to a harder tip. Curious what others have done?

The only reason I tried a soft tip was occasionally if I had to really load the ball up with some shit, I would miss cue. I will deal with the occasional miss cue to have my percentage of balls pocketed goes back to normal....

What you describe is what happens with every new tip.....

Kim
 
How do you like the medium compared to the ss? Was it a big adjustment for you?

i went from a buffalo tip to a kamui soft clear. i had no trouble what so ever. matter of fact i think i improved a little.

one thing i do different than you though is i like a lot of leather on my tip. when i get a new tip i have just enough removed to shape it to a dime. when they get down to about a 3rd left i replace them.

another thing.... i leave my tips alone ...i never scuff them unless they start to glaze. the last buffalo tip lasted me 4 years playing league 3/4 nights a week. ...even broke with that tip for 2 years.
 
With me, I hit pretty hard, so eventually all tips will end up being hard. I wonder if this is the case here, borrowing a cue with a well broken in tip.

Yes I tried one out on a different cue but that tip was broke in pretty well. I played well with it so I thought I would try one out...
 
I played a second long session with the ss. I broke with it all night and I am trying to get it to mushroom out a little, then I will cut it down some more. It already seems to be playing a little firmer. Apparently I was just freaking out after the first session...lol. I think once I fully adapt to it, I might like it...

I still think I probably should of stepped to a medium first, oh well.
 
With me, I hit pretty hard, so eventually all tips will end up being hard. I wonder if this is the case here, borrowing a cue with a well broken in tip.

That is what I am thinking. It has been a long time since I have broke a new tip in and I don't ever remember them playing this different. Lessoned learned...
 
When I picked up an OB classic shaft with a new Kamui SS Black on it, it was like the CB was sticking to it.

AND...I've played with the very soft Elk Master tips for 45 yrs. at that time.

Someone here told me to take several layers off of it & it should fine.

I took about 6 layers off & it was fine & played much like the Elk Masters.

Good luck with what ever you decide to do.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

PS Going from very hard to SS in one step would be tough IMO.
 
When I picked up an OB classic shaft with a new Kamui SS Black on it, it was like the CB was sticking to it.

AND...I've played with the very soft Elk Master tips for 45 yrs. at that time.

Someone here told me to take several layers off of it & it should fine.

I took about 6 layers off & it was fine & played much like the Elk Masters.

Good luck with what ever you decide to do.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

PS Going from very hard to SS in one step would be tough IMO.



Yes it was tough and probably not the most well thought out idea...lol. I'm pretty sure I cna make the adjustment and I am looking forward to cutting it down some more once I beat on it for awhile....
 
I right now I am tempted to cut it off and go back to a harder tip. Curious what others have done?


I'm like you, hate the soft tips, even the mediums too.
Soft tips work well for beginners who don't know how to draw.
They are inconsistent and FOR ME definitely not worth it.
You have to break with them a thousand times before they start feeling decent.

I tried the Kamui Black Soft and the Medium and hated both.

I have a Kamui Black Hard on both my player and the break cue.
It works very very nicely FOR ME. Always the same tip just a different cue.

I recommend you try the Kamui Black Had and see what you think.
 
I'm like you, hate the soft tips, even the mediums too.
Soft tips work well for beginners who don't know how to draw.
They are inconsistent and FOR ME definitely not worth it.
You have to break with them a thousand times before they start feeling decent.

I tried the Kamui Black Soft and the Medium and hated both.

I have a Kamui Black Hard on both my player and the break cue.
It works very very nicely FOR ME. Always the same tip just a different cue.

I recommend you try the Kamui Black Had and see what you think.

I stroke the ball decent and can get plenty of english on the ball with a hard tip. One thing I have noticed though is I can slow my stroke down and get more english on the ball if needed with the soft tip.
I have been breaking with my playing cue and I can already tell that the tip is hardening up some, I think once I cut it down some more it will play decent for me. Time will tell...

I plan to experiment with the medium and hard tips also...
 
What does over cutting have to do with the tip?

If you cut a ball with outside english it "throws" the object ball. When I first started playing with this tip I was getting too much spin on the cue ball and was spinning the ball out of the pocket. I may be crazy but it felt like I was hitting the balls in the same location as my hard tip and I was over cutting everything at first.
 
If you cut a ball with outside english it "throws" the object ball. When I first started playing with this tip I was getting too much spin on the cue ball and was spinning the ball out of the pocket. I may be crazy but it felt like I was hitting the balls in the same location as my hard tip and I was over cutting everything at first.

So it has nothing to do with cutting a ball, but everything to do with shooting with English. That I understand completely.
But the actual cut....didn't get that.
I very often shoot cut shots with no english, that's why I didn't know what you were talking about.
 
If I am not worried about geting to a certain spot or scratching most of the time I put a cue tip of outside english when cutting a ball by habit. I should just play with more center ball...
 
I've played with them all and love the Kamui Clear Black hard. Takes chalk real well and never mushrooms. Just a consistent fantastic hit.
 
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