Advice for DCP

Neil said:
Sounds like it's time to buy a book on the power of positive thinking!;)

i bought and read the book that everybody on here recommended. it was, like a few others on here said, pretty much a waste of time. dont remember the name of that book right off hand...........:eek:

DCP
 
Neil's Story is Everyone's Story

Great post, Neil. Your post really epitomizes the struggles of most pool players who strive to be the best they can be. I couldn't have said it better.

Scottster, great quote from Danny Harriman.

Perhaps its a maxim that the pro has missed more shots than the amatuer has made. But I am inclined toward my theory that up to 80% of the touring pro's were born with superb hand/eye coordination and only had to learn the little details and acquire the mental toughness (those most important six inches between your ears) to get where they are. It's the top amateurs who probably did have to work the hardest to achieve their skills.

Yours Truly,
The Woim
 
play it out

DrCue'sProtege said:
Neil,
was waiting to receive an email from you. however, i will now respond here.

the part about "Being scared i will look incompetent" is a very good post, and is perhaps the crux of the matter. as i've said before, in all the other sports i took up i was usually one of the best. like James T. Kirk, i dont like to lose. even i know its inevitable in the sport of pocket billiards. look how many times Earl has been beat! and the part about not winning at first is also a very good point.

in all honesty, there are nights when all i do is practice. mechanics, shotmaking, position, speed, etc, and dont play any racks. then there are nights when i decide i am going to do nothing but break racks of 9-Ball and see how i do.

so, when i start breaking racks, and the horrible rolls start (no balls down, 2 balls down and no shot on the 1-Ball, a ball down but an extremely difficult runout, being snookered, no shot, etc, etc) i immediately get into that "HERE WE GO AGAIN!" frame of mind and its pretty much over with. then, after 25 breaks, i finally get a chance, and mess it up and fail to run out - well, its all over for the evening.

however, on those rare evenings when i do get a decent spread early and runout a time or two early i am usually upbeat about things. but that rarely happens, unfortunately.

DCP
when you have those bad breaks where you have no shot or are hooked or tuff run outs, practice the other part of your game. safe play and defense. the greatest players in the world don't run out alot. break and run outs are probably less then 20%. just guessing. play a safe on yourself. then practice the kicks. practice the pushout. efren didn't get to where he is by only running out. bad rolls are part of the game. turn them to a positive thing. make them to your advantage. evry shot is a shot to try and win or get out. even a 4 rail kick.
 
Thanks for the thread Neil, its very good information on the thinking patterns we build in this wonderful game.......


B-
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
i bought and read the book that everybody on here recommended. it was, like a few others on here said, pretty much a waste of time. dont remember the name of that book right off hand...........:eek:

DCP

Pleasures of Small Motions, that was the yawner i am referring to...........:rolleyes:

DCP
 
Neil said:
DCP: Let me know on here if this has any merit to you, or if you think I am way out in left field. Thanks

yeah, Neil, its all good stuff. and like someone said, its been mentioned before by many different posters. and like i have said before, i read all of the posts and listen and pay attention.

but.........like tonight, after spending several hours at the office today, and then making roast for the first time (somewhat successfully) i went down to the table tonight and decided to be upbeat and break some racks. and guess what? yep, the results went like this:

no shot
nothing down
no shot
impossible spread
nothing down
scratch
nothing down
no shot
nothing down
impossible spread
impossible spread
nothing down
nothing down
a difficult chance i messed up
no shot
nothing down
nothing down
impossible spread
no shot
nothing down
nothing down
impossible spread
nothing down
no shot
nothing down
nothing down
impossible spread
no shot
give f***ing up.:mad: i slumped in my chair and asked out loud why oh why oh why i dont ever get any decent chances at running a rack of 9-Ball..............

DCP
 
What is the percentage for pros breaking and running? I don't think it's very high. Yours will be a lot lower. The end.
 
another look

DCP,

What balls are you using? What cue ball? Do you have a ball cleaner? What shape is your cloth and cushions in? Does your cue really please you? Equipment doesn't make a player but it is a whole lot easier to learn using good equipment.

Once you are satisfied that the equipment is as perfect as it can be, forget about it. Accept that it is all adequate for the job. Now start running out all of those "lousy" starts. Reset shots if you need to but find your way out of all of those problem racks or play a great safe or push and keep playing from there.

I was watching a nine ball ring game on TV awhile back. I think nine ball but maybe even just seven ball. If a player missed, the following player started with ball in hand. All four players played in one game. Read that again. This was four of the best players in the world and three of them either failed to run out after making a ball, I believe multiple balls, on the break or failed to run out with ball in hand and a short handful of balls spread around the table!!

That won't happen often but what will happen often is that the best in the world miss high percentage shots. If a shot is a 95% shot, that still means that one miss in twenty is going to happen! If it is a very common shot that means that the player will probably miss that same shot every tournament or two. What we see on TV is usually the tail end of tournaments and players are in stroke. Few played that well the entire tournament.

Make sure your equipment is the best it can be, set realistic expectations, and realize how you are actually performing. With your focus on the negative, I never recall reading of the good times when you play. Video yourself and watch it. Try to watch it objectively as if you were watching a total stranger. How do you really play? If you really get in an unusual amount of trouble after ruling out equipment it is because of poor execution on your part or poor choices. Either one of these is controllable by you. Luck plays a factor but we make over 90% of our luck.

Hu
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
yeah, Neil, its all good stuff. and like someone said, its been mentioned before by many different posters. and like i have said before, i read all of the posts and listen and pay attention.

but.........like tonight, after spending several hours at the office today, and then making roast for the first time (somewhat successfully) i went down to the table tonight and decided to be upbeat and break some racks. and guess what? yep, the results went like this:

no shot
nothing down
no shot
impossible spread
nothing down
scratch
nothing down
no shot
nothing down
impossible spread
impossible spread
nothing down
nothing down
a difficult chance i messed up
no shot
nothing down
nothing down
impossible spread
no shot
nothing down
nothing down
impossible spread
nothing down
no shot
nothing down
nothing down
impossible spread
no shot
give f***ing up.:mad: i slumped in my chair and asked out loud why oh why oh why i dont ever get any decent chances at running a rack of 9-Ball..............

DCP


I think others have said this, but I'll try to say it my own way. I think a lot of your frustration comes from the fact that you are not really playing games of 9 ball. You are breaking and trying to run out. If you play against an opponent, you don't have to break and run out to win. You've made a game for yourself where that's the only way to win. In a real game of 9 ball, you play safe, you play two way shots, you wait for your opponent to let you run out. You lose some, you win some. You win some more. You get on a roll and before you know it, you've broke and run out. Not because you were trying to have the perfect run out, but because you were trying to win! Find an opponent!
 
Tap Tap Tap...
DCP, who ever told you that being good at pool is measured by running racks? Get out of your head man, nowhere in that list did I see 'Had to play safe, had to play safe'.. throw a cover on that table and go find an opponent, for all our sakes.
 
Neil said:
I found though, that it seemed like the more knowledge I gained, the worse I actually played. I was looking at a multitude of ways to make the ball and get the desired results. But NOT firmly picking ONE way and doing it. My mind was never focused. I thought it was, but it wasn't. You have to decide what you want to do BEFORE you bend over the shot. And focus just on that.

Your attitude HAS to change. IF you are scared of looking incompetent, SO WHAT! We all feel that. Just when we finally think we are getting somewhere in this game,Someone is always better.

Now on to my nemesis. Luck Factor.

People can say there is no such thing, you make your own rolls, ect. They are right, yet they are also wrong. Everybody knows someone that always seems to be lucky. You know the type, one that can step in cow crap and roses will start growing out of his shoes. Most people have no problem with the good side of the luck factor.

But every coin has two sides. If some people are just 'naturally' lucky, it stands to reason that some people are 'naturally' unlucky. I do believe you might be one of 'us'. Yes, I am too. This part is hard for me, because it bares a very private part of me. But I say it anyhow in the hope that it will help someone else avoid what I put myself through.

I always had some excuse. The ball rolled off (which was true a lot), it skidded, ect. And, in all honesty, a lot would work against me. So I started to spend a lot of time by myself. I was determined to get my game back where it used to be.



Many a day I would just say screw this stupid game. I've had enough! But one thing I did notice, but would not really admit to myself, was that the more I complained about the rolls, the more I saw them. It got to where I expected something to go wrong. And sure enough, I was right! It did! It got so bad that I could get 3" off position, STILL have a great shot, but I would complain about it. IT FEEDS ON ITSELF. Crap in=crap out. Re-read that please. It is VERY important.!!

So I started to hit a small tournament. Played in it, but really watched some of the other players. Guess what I learned? They sometimes got bad rolls too! Sometimes for a length of time! I wasn't cursed after all! This crap is part of the game! How in the .... had my thinking gotten so screwed up???

Great post Neil. I can really identify with a lot of the content.
I am at the "knows to much for his own good" point in pool. Too much thinking and not enough shooting.

I've played on bad tables and had equipment related bad rolls, but most of the time the flaw is in my execution.
Decide on a shot, believe in it and execute it. Negativity finds it's way into your cue and will destroy your confidence and game.

I'm one of those guys that has more good luck than bad. I fall in sh!t and come out smelling like a rose, though they don't grow out of my shoes..:rolleyes: Maybe when I get bad luck, I fail to see it as bad "luck." When I need a card to make my hand in cards, or have to make a 2 rail kick to pocket my last ball and get on the 8 (which I missed when it was almost straight into the side) and I am successful, I don't feel lucky. I feel vindicated that I made the right choice to select the shot I did or to hold on to the cards that went with the "lucky" card.
This goes to attitude. I think optimists are luckier than pessimists. I believe this is true because the optimist expect the best result and then aren't disappointed if they don't get it. The pessimist hopes for the best but expects the worse possible outcome. They are then relieved when the worse doesn't happen, and probably attribute it to luck (which they have no control over)

When I started playing I walkied into a bar and had my ass handed to me by everybody. I lose every game I played. I wasn't discouraged or upset, I was determined to get a game and get back in theree and beat every one of them. That was my goal... I didn't go back in there for about 6 weeks, rather spending every spare moment in the pool room working things out. When I went back, I stayed on the table for most of the night, and over the course of the next month beat every one of the regulars that so thoroughly stomped me that first night out.

Next I found a little Frioday night 8 ball tourney. The first time I entered I went 2 and out, it was disappointing. I thought I had game and I folded under the new pressure of tournament play. I went 2 and out 3 weeks in a row before gaining any traction. The next week I went straight to the 1 loss side and decided I was going to send as many people as possible home. I wanted to be the spoiler, and I wound up in 5th place after sending 4 others home for the night.
I still haven't won this tourney, but have taken second twice. My goal now is to win it, but prior to ever winning any money I decided I wanted to be the guy that the good players worried about, a short stop. I became the guy that no one wanted to play because I am capable of beating them all. It was very gratifying the first time one of them said "oh sh!t I gotta play you" from one of the better players in the tourney. It was my first match of the night and he did beat me (my own fault and poor execution) and he went on to win the tourney. I ended up on the one loss side and stayed there until I say the same guy in the finals. He was the only guy to beat me that night, and losing twice to the same guy and taking second was almost as sweet as I imagine winning it will be.

Sorry for the ramble, this is the first DCP thread I've posted in. Expect a positive outcome and don't chalk it up to luck when you get it.

Banger
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
when i start breaking racks, and the horrible rolls start (no balls down, 2 balls down and no shot on the 1-Ball, a ball down but an extremely difficult runout, being snookered, no shot, etc, etc) i immediately get into that "HERE WE GO AGAIN!" frame of mind and its pretty much over with

DCP

The best pros in the world only make a ball on the break 35-40% of the time. Even if they get a ball down they may not have a shot on the one. That is why they play a push. If they have a shot on the one, it is not a given that the other seven will be laying nicely on the table.

Where do you find this arrogance to expect the balls to break to your satisfaction?

The game isn't the break, the game is solving the problems with whatever skills you have.
 
Not sure why I keep watching these threads... like a car wreck, you just can't help looking.

Anyway, DCP cannot even measure how he plays.. he doesn't play anyone! Wait till his skill allows him to run 5 racks in a row... he'll then go and play someone and won't be able to make 3 friken balls... then what will the forum hear from him?

Some advice.. join a league or find someone that is better then you to go play (twice a week). I don't know anyone that spent 9 years playing in their basement only to come out of it and be a top quality player. Join a league, enjoy the social aspect of pool as much as the competitive aspect.

If you do this, at least you can complain to others also :)
 
A few of my random thoughts in a similar vein . . .

1) I can run 300 , just not in a row.

2) Like DCB , I too am working on my "All 9 balls on the break , one shot run out " but and also having trouble so any advice there , I will also take.

3) In a parallel I'm having the same problem with my all hole in one , low score of 18 shots a round . . . in golf so I figure if I figure one out , they will all fall in place after that. Plus like in pool , I can lighten my bag down to one or 2 sticks.

4) My current (pool) method is to add another 6 pockets to my table , (chipping away the Connelly 2 inch slate was tough but I think it'll be worth it in the long run) and then mortor them in one by one till I can get all 9 in one hole on the break. Then I will have master the game completely on move on to snooker. I'll keep you'all updated on how that turns out.

5) In the meantime , I've taken up playing tic tac toe. I thought that would give me the lack of challenge that I really need to apply to my pool game but alas , it seems that after the first move , I'm stuck already and end up stymied. Turns out my luck sucks there too . . .

Lastly ,

I'm starting a petition to change the rules of Pool to , " Winner determined by the coin toss and I supply the coin. "

Please help my cause and sign here @

Solitairewith2cards@Wahwahwah.com

Please excuse the addy , that was the site I started last year when I was heavy into cards.

Jay. :)
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
yeah, Neil, its all good stuff. and like someone said, its been mentioned before by many different posters. and like i have said before, i read all of the posts and listen and pay attention.

but.........like tonight, after spending several hours at the office today, and then making roast for the first time (somewhat successfully) i went down to the table tonight and decided to be upbeat and break some racks. and guess what? yep, the results went like this:

no shot
nothing down
no shot
impossible spread
nothing down
scratch
nothing down
no shot
nothing down
impossible spread
impossible spread
nothing down
nothing down
a difficult chance i messed up
no shot
nothing down
nothing down
impossible spread
no shot
nothing down
nothing down
impossible spread
nothing down
no shot
nothing down
nothing down
impossible spread
no shot
give f***ing up.:mad: i slumped in my chair and asked out loud why oh why oh why i dont ever get any decent chances at running a rack of 9-Ball..............

DCP

sheesh....why don't you just wrap the lips around the barrell and pull the trigger?

it's a game, dude.

i'm sure your doomsday approach to the racks had some major influence on how you categorized each break.

lighten up, and good luck.
 
Tommy Tube Sock said:
I think others have said this, but I'll try to say it my own way. I think a lot of your frustration comes from the fact that you are not really playing games of 9 ball. You are breaking and trying to run out. If you play against an opponent, you don't have to break and run out to win. You've made a game for yourself where that's the only way to win. In a real game of 9 ball, you play safe, you play two way shots, you wait for your opponent to let you run out. You lose some, you win some. You win some more. You get on a roll and before you know it, you've broke and run out. Not because you were trying to have the perfect run out, but because you were trying to win! Find an opponent!

+1. DCP, did you read that? What do you think of this advice? This has been stated over and over but I don't think I've ever seen you address it. Now you have decided to go get an opponent. That's great! Go for it! I salute you for that.

BUT, when DO play alone, you need a REALISTIC run out game, NOT "let me break a zillion 9-ball racks until I run one out". That is frustrating. News flash ~ you're not a pro. PLAY THE GHOST. There is no shame in that.

I've said this before and you never reply. PLAY THE GHOST. Can't beat the 9-ball ghost? Play the 6-ball ghost. Can't beat that? Play the 4-ball ghost. Make a fair game with the ghost and play it until you notice you're beating it more often that you used to, and then increase the difficulty by adding a ball.

You also should consider buying a BreakRAK and Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets, which will help you improve your breaking and racking skills.

Last but not least, BE HUMBLE! When you fail to shoot like you think you should, please stop disrespecting this great game by throwing a hissy fit. The game is not easy. You may never become a champion. Be ready to fail and take it with dignity. Set some realistic goals and reach for them but please stop disrespecting the game and this forum by freaking out when you aren't reaching your UN-realistic goals. Read the bolded sentence again if you want the "DCP-hating" to go away.

Keep doing your other drills and do go play other people, but when you play alone and want to run out racks of 9-ball, JUST PLAY THE GHOST INSTEAD. Wait, I can't remember, what was I saying about the 6-ball ghost again? Oh yeah... PLAY IT!

I'm sure you'll ignore this post, as usual. So, although I failed again, I promise to try harder to ignore your zillions of threads about your stubbornness. No offense. Peace out.
 
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