Advice for IPT Players

enzo

Banned
I had a thought the other day and I felt it would be beneficial to share it on here in hopes that it could positively influence IPT players. Who am I to be giving advice? I am nobody, I would just hope you would read the below statement and decide for yourselves if it has any merit.

To make my point I will quickly describe a situation and talk about two possible subsequent scenarios, and how one of those scenarios is much better for IPT players and pool in general.

SITUATION: Lets say Keith Mcready has a strong flashback and places 2nd in a future IPT even and wins $100,000.

SCENARIO 1: Keith goes to the track and loses $50,000 and then he throws a $10,000 party and loses the remaining $40,000 in vegas.

SCENARIO 2: Keith plays Parica 9 to 7 and loses $40,000. Getting no rolls, he then loses $50,000 to Tang Hoa (I know whis may sound ridiculous, but I am just making a point). Keith then runs into John Schmidt who just beat parica for $20,000. Keith gets the 8 from him and robs him for the 20K. John would not have had this money if Keith wouldn't have lost to parica.

Anyway, I know it's a childish story, but you get the point. If you guys gamble amongst yourselves that money will always stay in pool players' hands. Not only that, but you will have the opportunity to win the money back and it will just constantly circulate creating more interest in pool as well. More rooms will open, there will be more new players, better equipment in the rooms and on and on.... The whole problem in the past (at least from what I can discern) is that you couldn't make a big score off another pool player because nobody had any money, especially like the casinos do. But with the future payouts, I feel this will be less of a problem. Further, if you lose to other players, in the future your amount of action will increase and you will have more negotiating leverage becasue you go off and people will want to play you. In a casino none of these benefits are realized.

I've heard Kevin Trudeau say that he feels pool can be more like golf. I believe at this point that it's possible for pool to become bigger than golf. Can you imagine if Tiger Woods and Nick Faldo matched up for $100,000 after both of them did good in the Masters. Golfers are such knits, that would never happen, but I know it has the potential to happen in the pool world, and boy what a spectacle it would be, and what interest it would create.

Hopefully I didn't offend anybody, I feel most of you already know what I said, but i felt maybe I could get some of you to think about it more, and that's always a good thing.
 
enzo said:
I had a thought the other day and I felt it would be beneficial to share it on here in hopes that it could positively influence IPT players. Who am I to be giving advice? I am nobody, I would just hope you would read the below statement and decide for yourselves if it has any merit.

To make my point I will quickly describe a situation and talk about two possible subsequent scenarios, and how one of those scenarios is much better for IPT players and pool in general.

SITUATION: Lets say Keith Mcready has a strong flashback and places 2nd in a future IPT even and wins $100,000.

SCENARIO 1: Keith goes to the track and loses $50,000 and then he throws a $10,000 party and loses the remaining $40,000 in vegas.

SCENARIO 2: Keith plays Parica 9 to 7 and loses $40,000. Getting no rolls, he then loses $50,000 to Tang Hoa (I know whis may sound ridiculous, but I am just making a point). Keith then runs into John Schmidt who just beat parica for $20,000. Keith gets the 8 from him and robs him for the 20K. John would not have had this money if Keith wouldn't have lost to parica.

Anyway, I know it's a childish story, but you get the point. If you guys gamble amongst yourselves that money will always stay in pool players' hands. Not only that, but you will have the opportunity to win the money back and it will just constantly circulate creating more interest in pool as well. More rooms will open, there will be more new players, better equipment in the rooms and on and on.... The whole problem in the past (at least from what I can discern) is that you couldn't make a big score off another pool player because nobody had any money, especially like the casinos do. But with the future payouts, I feel this will be less of a problem. Further, if you lose to other players, in the future your amount of action will increase and you will have more negotiating leverage becasue you go off and people will want to play you. In a casino none of these benefits are realized.

I've heard Kevin Trudeau say that he feels pool can be more like golf. I believe at this point that it's possible for pool to become bigger than golf. Can you imagine if Tiger Woods and Nick Faldo matched up for $100,000 after both of them did good in the Masters. Golfers are such knits, that would never happen, but I know it has the potential to happen in the pool world, and boy what a spectacle it would be, and what interest it would create.

Hopefully I didn't offend anybody, I feel most of you already know what I said, but i felt maybe I could get some of you to think about it more, and that's always a good thing.

Scnerario #1 on my wish list is that Keith wins an IPT event and takes his NUMBER ONE FAN Jennie on a world cruise between tournaments. Screw all the gambling - enjoy life!!!

John
 
onepocketchump said:
Scnerario #1 on my wish list is that Keith wins an IPT event and takes his NUMBER ONE FAN Jennie on a world cruise between tournaments. Screw all the gambling - enjoy life!!!

John

Now that is probably one of the most intelligent post I have ever read!:D

no-sho
 
enzo said:
I had a thought the other day and I felt it would be beneficial to share it on here in hopes that it could positively influence IPT players. Who am I to be giving advice? I am nobody, I would just hope you would read the below statement and decide for yourselves if it has any merit.

To make my point I will quickly describe a situation and talk about two possible subsequent scenarios, and how one of those scenarios is much better for IPT players and pool in general.

SITUATION: Lets say Keith Mcready has a strong flashback and places 2nd in a future IPT even and wins $100,000.

SCENARIO 1: Keith goes to the track and loses $50,000 and then he throws a $10,000 party and loses the remaining $40,000 in vegas.

SCENARIO 2: Keith plays Parica 9 to 7 and loses $40,000. Getting no rolls, he then loses $50,000 to Tang Hoa (I know whis may sound ridiculous, but I am just making a point). Keith then runs into John Schmidt who just beat parica for $20,000. Keith gets the 8 from him and robs him for the 20K. John would not have had this money if Keith wouldn't have lost to parica.

Anyway, I know it's a childish story, but you get the point. If you guys gamble amongst yourselves that money will always stay in pool players' hands. Not only that, but you will have the opportunity to win the money back and it will just constantly circulate creating more interest in pool as well. More rooms will open, there will be more new players, better equipment in the rooms and on and on.... The whole problem in the past (at least from what I can discern) is that you couldn't make a big score off another pool player because nobody had any money, especially like the casinos do. But with the future payouts, I feel this will be less of a problem. Further, if you lose to other players, in the future your amount of action will increase and you will have more negotiating leverage becasue you go off and people will want to play you. In a casino none of these benefits are realized.

I've heard Kevin Trudeau say that he feels pool can be more like golf. I believe at this point that it's possible for pool to become bigger than golf. Can you imagine if Tiger Woods and Nick Faldo matched up for $100,000 after both of them did good in the Masters. Golfers are such knits, that would never happen, but I know it has the potential to happen in the pool world, and boy what a spectacle it would be, and what interest it would create.

Hopefully I didn't offend anybody, I feel most of you already know what I said, but i felt maybe I could get some of you to think about it more, and that's always a good thing.

$100,000 dollar match would never happen between Woods and Faldo because 1) $100,000 isnt a drop in the bucket to either of them 2) Most professional golfers aren't as careless and stupid as pool players. Golfers generally dont take their entire paycheck from an event and gamble it. With first place in every event on tour now around a million, what is $100,000? The 125th man on the PGA tour money list (Nick Price) made $626,000, not to mention that everyone on tour has sponsors and endorsements. Why would they want to jeopardize these lucrative incentives by gambling or putting a lot of cash in action? I think you just inadvertantly made a great point as to why pool will never be in the same league as other major sports. Sure everyone gets enjoyment out of the same clowns going down to the pocket lint on a set of nine ball, but in the end, its these same clowns that will never allow pool to grow. I mean really, can you think of more than a handful of pool players that any major corporation outside of the billiard industry would want to endorse their product?
 
What you didn't say about golfers, that was very true is this: Before golf had much prize money in it the players scuffled and gambled all the time.They made lots of savers, too.
 
Grady said:
What you didn't say about golfers, that was very true is this: Before golf had much prize money in it the players scuffled and gambled all the time.They made lots of savers, too.


Maybe pool will follow this pattern as well when the prize money is increased. I was just responding to the earlier post that referenced increased prize money to increased gambling which will never work for the betterment of pool as it relates to the general public and their perceptions of it.
 
Advice for Self-Proclaimed IPT Advisor

enzo said:
I had a thought the other day...

blah blah, blah.......

Hopefully I didn't offend anybody.... more blah blah

This is about a worthless thread...... :rolleyes:
 
Face it ....

We all wish the level of Pool is raised in the public's eye,
but we will always have a foot in the gutter because Pool Rooms
are dubious places to the public. The best we can hope for is to raise
that one foot up where only a big toe is still down there.
Besides, most of us in the Pool world do enjoy the woofing,
matching up, and gambling of any kind. It is an excitement
factor that I don't think will ever go away.
 
I think gambling comes about via 2 mechanisms which may be reduced if pool introduces similar amounts of prize monies as we see in golf.

1. It is often a necessity for pool players to gamble in order to make ends meet.
2. Gamblers are attracted to pool, and with a little hard work can reach the standard required to find themselves a decent bet.
 
enzo said:
I had a thought the other day and I felt it would be beneficial to share it on here in hopes that it could positively influence IPT players. Who am I to be giving advice? I am nobody, I would just hope you would read the below statement and decide for yourselves if it has any merit.

To make my point I will quickly describe a situation and talk about two possible subsequent scenarios, and how one of those scenarios is much better for IPT players and pool in general.

SITUATION: Lets say Keith Mcready has a strong flashback and places 2nd in a future IPT even and wins $100,000.

SCENARIO 1: Keith goes to the track and loses $50,000 and then he throws a $10,000 party and loses the remaining $40,000 in vegas.

SCENARIO 2: Keith plays Parica 9 to 7 and loses $40,000. Getting no rolls, he then loses $50,000 to Tang Hoa (I know whis may sound ridiculous, but I am just making a point). Keith then runs into John Schmidt who just beat parica for $20,000. Keith gets the 8 from him and robs him for the 20K. John would not have had this money if Keith wouldn't have lost to parica.

Anyway, I know it's a childish story, but you get the point. If you guys gamble amongst yourselves that money will always stay in pool players' hands. Not only that, but you will have the opportunity to win the money back and it will just constantly circulate creating more interest in pool as well. More rooms will open, there will be more new players, better equipment in the rooms and on and on.... The whole problem in the past (at least from what I can discern) is that you couldn't make a big score off another pool player because nobody had any money, especially like the casinos do. But with the future payouts, I feel this will be less of a problem. Further, if you lose to other players, in the future your amount of action will increase and you will have more negotiating leverage becasue you go off and people will want to play you. In a casino none of these benefits are realized.

I've heard Kevin Trudeau say that he feels pool can be more like golf. I believe at this point that it's possible for pool to become bigger than golf. Can you imagine if Tiger Woods and Nick Faldo matched up for $100,000 after both of them did good in the Masters. Golfers are such knits, that would never happen, but I know it has the potential to happen in the pool world, and boy what a spectacle it would be, and what interest it would create.

Hopefully I didn't offend anybody, I feel most of you already know what I said, but i felt maybe I could get some of you to think about it more, and that's always a good thing.

How about scenario 3?

Keith puts aside 10K for some gambling money...probably pool, but whatever he wants to gamble at.

Keith puts aside 20K for the near future traveling/tournament/living expenses.

Keith invests 20K for a future time when he might need it, plus a little return on his money.

Keith makes a 5K donation (tax deductible) that is somehow advertised or makes news to promote pool and pool players as a legitimate sport.

Keith blows 5K on himself, a party, friends..has fun with it.. new cue.. whatever.

Keith banks the other 40K for taxes and other expenses knowing with highly publicised tournaments, large payouts, governments close eye on the IPT because of KT, Uncle Sam will probably get involved and want a cut of incomes.

Kelly
 
I understand that there will be a 1099 for any pool earnings greater than $600. Total in a year. And it would probably be wise for players to get familiar with the tax code. Especially the quarterly estimated tax portion. Or they may be surprised to find out that with taxes and penalties Uncle Sam may get more of the money than they do. And penalties can include jail time.

I believe that the players will be Independent Contractors and as such the responsibility for paying taxes will be entirely on them.

Perhaps some tour directors can explain it to the players. Since they are required to submit the 1099's.

Jake
 
Colin Colenso said:
... 1. It is often a necessity for pool players to gamble in order to make ends meet.
...
A small nit to pick here. They don't gamble to make ends meet. They trim suckers to make ends meet. Otherwise, the ends don't meet. Or, their backer gambles and pays them to play.

One thing left out of the original scenarios is the fact that for a $100,000 payday, the player only gets $70,000, as the rest will likely be withheld for taxes. The IPT must file 1099s or similar or face liability for paying the taxes plus penalties.
 
jjinfla said:
.. Perhaps some tour directors can explain it to the players. Since they are required to submit the 1099's....
1099s apply only to people who have an SSN. For most foreign players, the promoter must withhold about 30% (which varies from country to country due to lots of treaties), and file a 1042s and related forms. If a person with an SSN fails to pay taxes apparently due on those winnings (or is otherwise apparently behind), the IRS starts sending out notices to all known sources of income for that person notifying them that the IRS must be paid first from any future earnings by that person.
 
Ummm just to be clear...Golfers don't gamble???.....LMFAO:rolleyes:

Where do you think the skins format came from!?!:p :)

Terry
 
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