Advice needed on recent Kamui Black S tip experience

scottjen26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After doing some research here I decided to replace my worn Everest tip on my Predator Z2 shaft with a Kamui Black Soft tip, seemed like the best match hardness wise, kind of in that medium range. So far it hasn't been a great experience, and wondering if anyone else has experienced this or can comment.

The tip was put on by a reputable dealer, and I picked it out and it had the correct markings, hologram, etc. so pretty sure it wasn't fake. After all of the comments I've seen in other threads, I really expected something better than the standard Everest tip I've been using. I wouldn't say it was worse necessarily, but certainly not better, and just different in a strange way that I can't describe very well. I could still spin the ball about the same way, but it just felt more dead somehow, or not as responsive, if that makes sense. It didn't feel mushy, like it was too soft, and it didn't feel too hard, which for me sort of feels a little tinny in the hit.

I only used it for a few hours over 2 days, but it bugged me enough that I actually switched over to my new 314-2 with the standard Everest tip, which I've been experimenting with here and there, getting used to the increased width and difference in deflection. The positive thing, potentially, is that I started playing great with the 314-2 and played with it for 6 - 8 hours yesterday and only missed one or two shots that were slower spinnier shots where the cue deflected a bit more than the Z would have.


So before I give up on the Kamui, or get the Z2 retipped, or sell it, anyone have any comments? I can't accurately describe it, it's just a feel thing, and frankly I haven't used a lot of different types of tips in my playing experience. I'm just wondering if it will break in somehow, or if the SS or the medium would feel better, or if another type of tip altogether might be nice. Or just stick with the Everest, the only problem I have with them is they tend to mushroom and require maintenance over time, and as the tip wears down the top layer will sometimes just pop off, leaving me with a square tip requiring more extreme tip shaping and shortening the life of the tip. That's why I decided to try something else in the first place.

Thanks,
Scott
 
A more "dead" feedback is to be expected with a softer tip. Sounds mostly like you were nit ready for that dulled feel/hit a soft tip can create.
 
Sounds like you're used to the hit and feel of an Everest tip so why change?

Tip selection is personal preference. Many people like Kamui, but maybe you're not one of them. Stick with whatever feels right and table time will do the rest.
 
give it a little time...

try playing with it for a while, sounds like you were not ready for the softness. it will compress to a degree after a few hours of playing, especially if you really stoke the balls or "soft' break.

Maybe watch for a little mushrooming, repair and reshape and you will probably have more feel.

good luck
 
A slightly deader hit is to be expected.... this is why I like the Kamuis. (I play with a Kamui Black SS) I find it much easier to control the amount of spin I put on the cue ball with my predator using a SS. It in no way is a hard hit.

If it bothers you allot take down a layer or two. They are much taller then most tips and this can definitely add to the "deader" hit.

I think they start out with 9 layers and depending how many the tip installer took off when shaping---> that can be allot of leather on the end of your ferrule.

less leather- the harder the hit no matter what tip you use.

Dud
 
After doing some research here I decided to replace my worn Everest tip on my Predator Z2 shaft with a Kamui Black Soft tip, seemed like the best match hardness wise, kind of in that medium range. So far it hasn't been a great experience, and wondering if anyone else has experienced this or can comment.

The tip was put on by a reputable dealer, and I picked it out and it had the correct markings, hologram, etc. so pretty sure it wasn't fake. After all of the comments I've seen in other threads, I really expected something better than the standard Everest tip I've been using. I wouldn't say it was worse necessarily, but certainly not better, and just different in a strange way that I can't describe very well. I could still spin the ball about the same way, but it just felt more dead somehow, or not as responsive, if that makes sense. It didn't feel mushy, like it was too soft, and it didn't feel too hard, which for me sort of feels a little tinny in the hit.

I only used it for a few hours over 2 days, but it bugged me enough that I actually switched over to my new 314-2 with the standard Everest tip, which I've been experimenting with here and there, getting used to the increased width and difference in deflection. The positive thing, potentially, is that I started playing great with the 314-2 and played with it for 6 - 8 hours yesterday and only missed one or two shots that were slower spinnier shots where the cue deflected a bit more than the Z would have.


So before I give up on the Kamui, or get the Z2 retipped, or sell it, anyone have any comments? I can't accurately describe it, it's just a feel thing, and frankly I haven't used a lot of different types of tips in my playing experience. I'm just wondering if it will break in somehow, or if the SS or the medium would feel better, or if another type of tip altogether might be nice. Or just stick with the Everest, the only problem I have with them is they tend to mushroom and require maintenance over time, and as the tip wears down the top layer will sometimes just pop off, leaving me with a square tip requiring more extreme tip shaping and shortening the life of the tip. That's why I decided to try something else in the first place.

Thanks,
Scott



Scott the information you have is now accurate and you should be happy. I have always said that all these opinions given on what is the best tip, or even how a given tips will play can not be trusted. I think when people offer their opinion they are doing so with the intent of being helpful.

However, until some one tries something themselves you can never be sure of what to expect or how it will play for you, so don't think that you are wrong in your assessment because no ones opinion is better than the person using the tip on their cue.

JIMO
 
Thanks for the replies. Since my tip experience is limited, I think what a few people said is what I'm feeling, that "dull" feeling when hitting the ball. I expected if a tip were softer than I was used to that it would also be grabbier, not that I'm looking for that. But it's not. And it is very tall, so that could be the factor as well.

I realize it is a very personal experience - I play tennis at a pretty decent level, and racquets and strings and tension are the same way, what I love someone else may hate and vice versa. But if you get enough opinions from similar players you can at least limit your experimentation choices to something manageable, since strings ain't cheap either - was paying $60 every 3 weeks or so for restringing both racquets when I was playing regularly.

Sometimes you just have to try something new to see what's out there, or even confirm that what you have is working for you. Maybe I'll try a harder version next time, or just stick with the Everest... :)

Thanks again for the feedback, keep it coming!

Scott
 
Hi there,
This is perfect feedback on what is appropriate to do next. Take a layer off of the tip to decrease the "flex" of the tip. I can bet that you would like a Kamui Original better. But remove a layer first. Then give it some more time on the table. If you are experiencing less of the dead feel then you are on the right path to finding your sweet spot. If you take too much of the tip down then you will have to go to the next hardness.
Did you choose black because everyone said to use a black or black is the best?
There is a purpose for the brown and a purpose for the black. The Brown is for straight shooting and pocketing balls with standard english. The black is the brown leather treated to maintain maximum elasticity to allow more flex in the tip...(your dead feel). For those who like to get ball placement with less force on the ball then the black tips are right for you.
Please spend some time looking at the elasticity chart on the home page of http://www.kamuitips.com or on http://www.KamuiBrand.com

We make 8 different tips... There is a tip for every style, stroke, type of player.

Be patient my friend, once you find the sweet spot, like many have, you can rely on consistency when you get your next tip installed later on down the road. ;-)

good luck, And if you need me, call.


Thanks for the replies. Since my tip experience is limited, I think what a few people said is what I'm feeling, that "dull" feeling when hitting the ball. I expected if a tip were softer than I was used to that it would also be grabbier, not that I'm looking for that. But it's not. And it is very tall, so that could be the factor as well.

I realize it is a very personal experience - I play tennis at a pretty decent level, and racquets and strings and tension are the same way, what I love someone else may hate and vice versa. But if you get enough opinions from similar players you can at least limit your experimentation choices to something manageable, since strings ain't cheap either - was paying $60 every 3 weeks or so for restringing both racquets when I was playing regularly.

Sometimes you just have to try something new to see what's out there, or even confirm that what you have is working for you. Maybe I'll try a harder version next time, or just stick with the Everest... :)

Thanks again for the feedback, keep it coming!

Scott
 
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I use the Black S & found some good info in this thread regarding them.
 
[Be patient my friend, once you find the sweet spot, like many have, you can rely on consistency when you get your next tip installed later on down the road. ;-)[/QUOTE]


These are the magic words , Thanks Kamui for the good advise. Everything in pool you have to get used to no matter how good or expensive it is. I do not care what cue you shoot with, or tip, in order to be able to judge your cue/tip you have to make other variables constant. You should shoot exact same set of balls, same shots, same table, same time every day over say a week's time, best time if you have a table at home, shooting pool after good night sleep for accuracy of aim and concentration (try not to have sex the night before, this might increase concentration), same environment mainly humidity, same style of shooting, and will be much better if you do not know which shaft or tip you shoot with (until you complete the session), but that will be hard. Record the results and let us know. I know it is hard to do, but really, every time we play pool we either play perfect pool, or sometime not so perfect using same cue, so other factors are critical.

Only then one can give accurate opinion.
 
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Thanks again.

I haven't had much luck over the years doctoring my own tips, which is why I like to have a tip installed right the first time and one that has minimal or no mushrooming or glazing or other issues.

So if I do try and remove a layer, how do I go about it? Just use a knife to slice off a layer, and then some sort of tip tool to reshape it and reburnish it? I have an older Joe Porper (I think) tip shaper, with some sort of blade inside, I think in theory if I put the shaft in there it will cut the tip to the right shape, then (again in theory) I could use sandpaper or something for finer shaping and a burnisher or leather to burnish up the sides. I also envision through this process destroying my tip and/or ferrule... :)

Scott
 
Thanks again.

I haven't had much luck over the years doctoring my own tips, which is why I like to have a tip installed right the first time and one that has minimal or no mushrooming or glazing or other issues.

So if I do try and remove a layer, how do I go about it? Just use a knife to slice off a layer, and then some sort of tip tool to reshape it and reburnish it? I have an older Joe Porper (I think) tip shaper, with some sort of blade inside, I think in theory if I put the shaft in there it will cut the tip to the right shape, then (again in theory) I could use sandpaper or something for finer shaping and a burnisher or leather to burnish up the sides. I also envision through this process destroying my tip and/or ferrule... :)

Scott

I would definitely advise staying away from any blade to shorten your tip. If you tried to cut off a layer you would probably upset the fibers of the tip.

This is my personal favorite for serious removal.
http://www.seyberts.com/products/Sandman_Tip_Tool-58-24.html

For scuffing I just use a gator grip by Kamui.
http://www.kamuitips.com/store/Details.cfm?ProdID=75
(this removes VERY little material)

Dud
 
Thanks again.

I haven't had much luck over the years doctoring my own tips, which is why I like to have a tip installed right the first time and one that has minimal or no mushrooming or glazing or other issues.

So if I do try and remove a layer, how do I go about it? Just use a knife to slice off a layer, and then some sort of tip tool to reshape it and reburnish it? I have an older Joe Porper (I think) tip shaper, with some sort of blade inside, I think in theory if I put the shaft in there it will cut the tip to the right shape, then (again in theory) I could use sandpaper or something for finer shaping and a burnisher or leather to burnish up the sides. I also envision through this process destroying my tip and/or ferrule... :)

Scott


Scott, take your shaft to who ever put the tip on and have them take it down a little. I do not reccomend taking a layer off by using a knife, that could ruin the tip.

I shorten tips for my customers all the time, and without a lathe it can be very hard to do.

Take care
 
Thanks again.

I haven't had much luck over the years doctoring my own tips, which is why I like to have a tip installed right the first time and one that has minimal or no mushrooming or glazing or other issues.

So if I do try and remove a layer, how do I go about it? Just use a knife to slice off a layer, and then some sort of tip tool to reshape it and reburnish it? I have an older Joe Porper (I think) tip shaper, with some sort of blade inside, I think in theory if I put the shaft in there it will cut the tip to the right shape, then (again in theory) I could use sandpaper or something for finer shaping and a burnisher or leather to burnish up the sides. I also envision through this process destroying my tip and/or ferrule... :)

Scott

I recently used one of Joel's tip tools to remove a couple of layers off of my break cue and it did a great job. You can read my review of it here:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=242027
 
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