advice on one shot needed

Solartje

Solartje

the Brunswick BUG bit me
Silver Member
Hi,

i'd like some advice on this one shot.


background: im using a high deflection shaft, with pivot point at around 7-8" for a normal stroke. im using BHE wich is working like a miracle to me, but this one shot im having so much troubles.


a shot with lets say 4-5-6 or more diamonds distance in between the CB and OB, and 1 diamond distance between OB and the pocket, that i need to shoot with MUCH englisch 50 - 75%, but played at barely pocketing speed.

The swerve and contact throw is SO hard to judge as its different each and every time. i just can't make this shot. my cb is completly loose and i can't seem to be able to controle the rock.

any help will be apreciated.

greats, solly.
 
I know what you mean Solly. This is the instance where you really need to aim "away" from the "percieved" contact point and trust the shot. Shoot the shot 10 times like you are now and take notice to where you are missing, then compensate for the miss....which will "look" wrong to your eye....then shoot it again. You'll get it dude...

Gerry
 
Solartje said:
Hi,

i'd like some advice on this one shot.


background: im using a high deflection shaft, with pivot point at around 7-8" for a normal stroke. im using BHE wich is working like a miracle to me, but this one shot im having so much troubles.


a shot with lets say 4-5-6 or more diamonds distance in between the CB and OB, and 1 diamond distance between OB and the pocket, that i need to shoot with MUCH englisch 50 - 75%, but played at barely pocketing speed.

The swerve and contact throw is SO hard to judge as its different each and every time. i just can't make this shot. my cb is completly loose and i can't seem to be able to controle the rock.

any help will be apreciated.

greats, solly.
Click to expand...

Why do you need a lot of english and also very little speed? I think shooting like that is problematic for most of us, and I usually try to figure out a different way to play the shot, either going an extra rail, or something. Maybe if you posted a diagram with an example of this type of shot we could recommend different ways to play it, because hitting the ball slowly with a lot of spin makes the swerve and throw, as you pointed out, unpredictable and hard to compensate for.

-Andrew
 
Gerry said:
I know what you mean Solly. This is the instance where you really need to aim "away" from the "percieved" contact point and trust the shot. Shoot the shot 10 times like you are now and take notice to where you are missing, then compensate for the miss....which will "look" wrong to your eye....then shoot it again. You'll get it dude...

Gerry
Click to expand...

yeah i feel this is just one of those shots, where i need to just trust my experience. Ive tried using BHE on it, but its just to variable. I guess anything played at a pace slower then 1 table lenght is just to unconsistent to use a consistent technique... Also the cloth, humidity play such a big part. thats why this shot is so hard to play in tournament where you are constitantly changing tables etc..

thx for the post Gerry, i thought maybe some technique existed to make the shot easyer.

andrew: usually i just don't use english on these shots. i cant use Wei here at work as the fireworks insnt installed, and im not authorised.

So i was right, just try to find an easyer positional shot with a harder pot or never leave me these shots :D Just thought id ask, in case there was a way..

ps I call it the drunken-CB-shot. the Cb seems like he is SO drunk, and the only time i can make this shot is when I am drunk :D
 
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i'd like some advice on this one shot.

The swerve and contact throw is SO hard to judge as its different each and every time.
Click to expand...

The main problem is that it's not "one shot". It's different every time because the distance, speed and spin change with the needs of the shot. There's no good way to keep these things the same for each shot, so the only solution is to practice this kind of shot at many different distances, speeds and spins (and to realize that it's the swerve that changes unpredictably each time).

Even after you feel more confident with this kind of shot it's a good idea to look for alternative position plays that don't involve tricky speed/spin/distance combinations. Trade less than perfect shape for a shot that's easier to make.

pj
chgo
 
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Solartje said:
... So i was right, just try to find an easyer positional shot with a harder pot or never leave me these shots :D Just thought id ask, in case there was a way.....
Click to expand...
No, there is a simple, obvious way to get better at these shots. Practice them. Practice the variations. Practice the extremes. Push back the frontiers of the shots you are comfortable with. That expansion of your borders is the real part of learning to play.

Or, you could stick with the shots you do well and give up on learning anything new.

As for some technique to make slow spin shots easier, try to play as close to the center of the ball as you can and still get the needed side spin. Sometimes this will require you to hit lower on the cue ball.
 
to add to what bob said, there was an interesting article (one of his) about how to get maximum english effect, and for ideal sidespin you hit much closer to the center of the cueball when hitting low... than you do when hitting the middle or high.

The situation you're describing DOES sound odd and I think there's a chance you're playing it wrong. That's not to say there's never a situation where you need to hit with plenty of sidespin, yet barely creep the object ball in... but it's kind of rare, especially if you're planning position correctly. I'd had the impression you play better than me but my style of play seems to almost never need such a shot, I can run racks with a house cue without worrying about its deflection level because I'm using a lot of vertical axis and only going a little to the side.

I tried to guess what kind of shot would be played the way you describe and diagrammed some stuff. Dunno if it's related to your problem or not. Hopefully it is useful.

avoidside.jpg
 
Solartje said:
Hi,

i'd like some advice on this one shot.


background: im using a high deflection shaft, with pivot point at around 7-8" for a normal stroke. im using BHE wich is working like a miracle to me, but this one shot im having so much troubles.


a shot with lets say 4-5-6 or more diamonds distance in between the CB and OB, and 1 diamond distance between OB and the pocket, that i need to shoot with MUCH englisch 50 - 75%, but played at barely pocketing speed.

The swerve and contact throw is SO hard to judge as its different each and every time. i just can't make this shot. my cb is completly loose and i can't seem to be able to controle the rock.
any help will be apreciated.

greats, solly.
Click to expand...


They designed Predator shafts for this exact reason..... It makes shots like this sooooooooo much easier and more predictable
 
its true, that ive been training on BHE only for the last months. ive been trying to practice as many english shots as i could, and maybe i just forgot more often to use the draw/drag shot to get an equivalent positioning. sometimes when u train specific shots, i tend to forget the other options. i'm really glad u mantioned it, as i kinda was using english on EVERY shot now :D and thats not why i was learning bHE, i was just learning it for some 9ball shots that i used to miss alot. now im using it on every shot, and thats not the point at all.

i think i might remember this one shot where it was needed, but thinking about it... i might have done it differently.

I remember i need to play it really slow as i wanted the cb to stick close to the endrail after the pot, so i would get position on my next ball that was lying in the other corner pocket on the same endrail, to then go up the table.

i remember i couldnt just role it in, as my cb would have been stuck behind another ball. i wanted max outside englisch to just get enough spin, so i wouldnt be snookered. thinking about it (not sure) i could have just used that ball to bump in and use it as a stopball...

(if its not clear, ill try to draw a weitable, but i can't do it on this computer...
Its like the left table layout Creedo drawed, but with many balls in the rack area, wich made me play it slow , and one ball blocking the path to the other ball on the table if i wouldnt use englisch to not get snookered. (is it any clear :confused: )

Ive never used a predator shaft, because since im using BHE my game has become ALOT better. ive been working with colin alot on this, and its working, and ive always been told, whats working, shouldnt be fixed. i'm not sure trying a predator shaft would be the right choice (but ive been wrong before :) )

something like this? im really not sure

role it would have left the CB right of the package
drag the shot = same
stun it, would have needed to much power for the cb to stay close to the end rail.

i tried to use outside english and play the ball a bit thicker so it would lose some of its speed, but playing it with so much englisch that even at slow speed, some english would have remained after contact with the OB, and enough to make it turn LEFT of the pack.

and seeing it now, makes me think, even if i played it more firm, and use that ball left to the OB as a stopping ball, it would need a very precise shot, that if i dont hit that ball full in the face after hitting the cussion , the cb could have gone everywhere.
 

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solartje: I would probably play that shot with draw-drag... and instead of planning on trying to slip the cue ball PAST the gray ball nearest the rail.. I would just play to bump into it. Does it need lots of accuracy & can it get you into trouble if you screw up? Yes and yes =) But it's still easier than draw drag with tons of left. You could do it with strictly draw but I would probably automatically put a little left on it anyway, even though the left will die by the time it reaches pocket. It's a bad habit.

Spin: now I KNOW you're a better player than me, based on your straight pool numbers. So I must be wrong about how I'd play this. But it seems safest and smartest to me to just aim carefully for the thickest hit you can on the OB, and use lots of good draw drag, so that the cue ball arrives with just a little forward roll when it cuts that ball in. It then bounces 1 rail off the short rail to the exact same ending spot on your diagram.

I see the idea behind the right english is to ensure you spin away from the next ball, the further right you move the CB, the less thin your cut will be on the next shot... I just think you can arrive at that point with just a rolling ball, don't need 2 rails to get there.
 
They designed Predator shafts for this exact reason..... It makes shots like this sooooooooo much easier and more predictable
Click to expand...

Predator is designed to reduce squirt, and the problem with this shot is that it's swerve-heavy. Predator's advantage of low squirt doesn't really address this problem - no shaft does. It's a problem the shooter has to solve with practice and shot selection.

pj
chgo
 
One alternative way to shoot this shot is very slowly with lots of left spin but no draw (cue as level as possible to minimize swerve). The spin allows you to use the blocking ball, the level cue takes most of the swerve out of the equation, and the low speed (slightly over pocket speed) reduces the consequences of not hitting the blocking ball square.

pj
chgo
 
Solartje said:
its true, that ive been training on BHE only for the last months. ive been trying to practice as many english shots as i could, and maybe i just forgot more often to use the draw/drag shot to get an equivalent positioning. sometimes when u train specific shots, i tend to forget the other options. i'm really glad u mantioned it, as i kinda was using english on EVERY shot now :D and thats not why i was learning bHE, i was just learning it for some 9ball shots that i used to miss alot. now im using it on every shot, and thats not the point at all.

i think i might remember this one shot where it was needed, but thinking about it... i might have done it differently.

I remember i need to play it really slow as i wanted the cb to stick close to the endrail after the pot, so i would get position on my next ball that was lying in the other corner pocket on the same endrail, to then go up the table.

i remember i couldnt just role it in, as my cb would have been stuck behind another ball. i wanted max outside englisch to just get enough spin, so i wouldnt be snookered. thinking about it (not sure) i could have just used that ball to bump in and use it as a stopball...

(if its not clear, ill try to draw a weitable, but i can't do it on this computer...
Its like the left table layout Creedo drawed, but with many balls in the rack area, wich made me play it slow , and one ball blocking the path to the other ball on the table if i wouldnt use englisch to not get snookered. (is it any clear :confused: )

Ive never used a predator shaft, because since im using BHE my game has become ALOT better. ive been working with colin alot on this, and its working, and ive always been told, whats working, shouldnt be fixed. i'm not sure trying a predator shaft would be the right choice (but ive been wrong before :) )

something like this? im really not sure

role it would have left the CB right of the package
drag the shot = same
stun it, would have needed to much power for the cb to stay close to the end rail.

i tried to use outside english and play the ball a bit thicker so it would lose some of its speed, but playing it with so much englisch that even at slow speed, some english would have remained after contact with the OB, and enough to make it turn LEFT of the pack.

and seeing it now, makes me think, even if i played it more firm, and use that ball left to the OB as a stopping ball, it would need a very precise shot, that if i dont hit that ball full in the face after hitting the cussion , the cb could have gone everywhere.
Click to expand...

Don't use backhand english. You will catch too much of the cueball. The stick has to cross the cueball line less when you hit slowly with a lot of spin. So you can't line up straight and then move the back of the cue. Your bridge hand must be more to the left, rear of the cue still on angle to cross the line of the shot, but less than the other way. Hit very wide on the cueball, no draw, aim outside the left edge of the ghostball and let the cueball follow the edge of the ferrule to the ghostball position. You are shooting the correct shot, imo. Low deflection shafts won't matter on this shot shooting it this way.

unknownpro
 
pool

Solartje said:
Hi,

i'd like some advice on this one shot.


background: im using a high deflection shaft, with pivot point at around 7-8" for a normal stroke. im using BHE wich is working like a miracle to me, but this one shot im having so much troubles.


a shot with lets say 4-5-6 or more diamonds distance in between the CB and OB, and 1 diamond distance between OB and the pocket, that i need to shoot with MUCH englisch 50 - 75%, but played at barely pocketing speed.

The swerve and contact throw is SO hard to judge as its different each and every time. i just can't make this shot. my cb is completly loose and i can't seem to be able to controle the rock.

any help will be apreciated.

greats, solly.
Click to expand...
I WOULD HAVE TO BE THERE. THEN AGAIN, I WOULD NOT TAKE THE SHOT. TOO MANY VARIABLES. HAL
 
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