aim fuller with draw?
- Thread starter Jimbojim
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I don't know if you're familiar with the concept of throw. When you hit a cut shot, friction between the balls usually causes the object ball to be sent down a path which is a little different than a line drawn between the centers of the cueball and object ball at the moment of impact. If there were no friction, the object ball would travel along that line, or at least very nearly so (there's another thing at play here.)
With a stun shot, the direction of the friction force is horizontal, and this produces the greatest throw effect as far as making the shot is concerned. Draw or follow causes the friction force to be more vertically oriented, thus reducing horizontal throw (not always, but typically).
So with either type of spin, follow included, you should tend to hit fuller than with stun.
Jim
With a stun shot, the direction of the friction force is horizontal, and this produces the greatest throw effect as far as making the shot is concerned. Draw or follow causes the friction force to be more vertically oriented, thus reducing horizontal throw (not always, but typically).
So with either type of spin, follow included, you should tend to hit fuller than with stun.
Jim
As JAL says, both follow and draw "steal" some of the friction that normally causes throw, so you might have to hit a little fuller using either one if squirve doesn't change things. But, assuming a pretty level stick, swerve is greater with follow and less with draw, which could cause the effect you notice with inside spin (need to hit thinner with top and fatter with bottom), but would cause the opposite effect with outside spin.Jimbojim said:
pj
chgo
damn, there must be a hole in my game. I always thought that you had to aim to hit a little thinner with draw, because the throw effect is still there (or even increased a hair) plus a split second of extra topspin is transferred to the object ball, sending it on a more 'forward' line than usual.
My feeling with top is that I don't need to adjust at all, or the effect is so small that it will pretty much never take a shot far enough out of line to make it miss the pocket (maybe if you 99% missed the shot anyway and it was baaaarely gonna bobble in).
My feeling with top is that I don't need to adjust at all, or the effect is so small that it will pretty much never take a shot far enough out of line to make it miss the pocket (maybe if you 99% missed the shot anyway and it was baaaarely gonna bobble in).
If you do a careful measurement, I think you will find that follow also causes a thinner cut than stun. I've found that it's about a 3-degree difference. An article describing my measurements is available at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2006-05.pdfJimbojim said:
Three degrees is large enough that you must compensate for it or you are likely to miss shots that are only 2-3 diamonds long. Since people routinely make such shots, and very few people are consciously aware of how draw and follow affect throw, they must be making the corrections subconsciously or use some other technique on stun shots such as "helping english."
Depends on the ball cleanliness and the humidity, no one likes dirty balls. In general no, you must not be hitting the object ball where you think. I think you have to aim thinner (or add a little outside) with just draw on a med to slow speed to combat the throw caused by the ball friction. This is most noticeable on shots at about 40 degrees down the rail. And I think that follow widens the cut angle but many people do not agree. Maybe I am dum who knows.
Eric.
Eric.
When you say "follow" I assume you mean natural roll and not just "overspin". If so, I can see how a player could believe there's no effect from follow, because natural roll follow is the "normal" shot.Bob Jewett said:
pj
chgo
In the setup I was using, the cue ball was very close to the object ball to prevent aiming errors. In that situation, it is hard to say that whether I hit exactly the right distance above center for natural roll. I played what feels to me like a natural roll shot. I know from previous measurements that I'm able to do about 20% over spin with that cue, but I didn't go that high on the cue ball.Patrick Johnson said:
You and "I rack balls" are suggesting this. But I think what's happening is that you're hitting more of a stun shot, ie, a lot of the backspin is getting rubbed out.CreeDo said:
I think you're right. With a lot of topspin, throw is greatly reduced and the pure "geometry" of the shot is not altered much. Looking at it this way, the real adjustment (hitting thinner) has to be made for stun shots, where throw is larger.CreeDo said:
Jim
