Aiming Systems • Techniques • ETC

[mohrt]

They create a different perception or what ever it is they do..only one way..learning set shots.

If you think CTE demonstrations have anything to do with learning set shots, you are very sorely mistaken.

 

[lfigueroa]

Every time I read all these posts about visuals, reference points, eye position, etc. the more I think of an old episode of "The Dick Van Dyke Show" in which the punchline was, "Put both forms in a paper bag, swing it over your head and scream like a chicken."

Probably get close to the same results.

Carry on.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JoeyInCali]

Why did this thread end up all CTE ( pros and cons ) ?

 

[bwally]

Every time I read all these posts about visuals, reference points, eye position, etc. the more I think of an old episode of "The Dick Van Dyke Show" in which the punchline was, "Put both forms in a paper bag, swing it over your head and scream like a chicken."

Probably get close to the same results.

Carry on.

Lou Figueroa

Ever wonder how/why these discussions turn the way they do? Lou just gave a perfect example of how to do it...

Ignorant comments like this only make YOU look like a fool.

 

[8pack]

If you think CTE demonstrations have anything to do with learning set shots, you are very sorely mistaken.

What I'm actually saying is ,from set shots you will actually learn the Truth about whats happening.In game play you stick to your rules and let the mind take over.

The truth Mohrt.

Shoot in between the visuals ...no more different perception.

 

[8pack]

Every time I read all these posts about visuals, reference points, eye position, etc. the more I think of an old episode of "The Dick Van Dyke Show" in which the punchline was, "Put both forms in a paper bag, swing it over your head and scream like a chicken."

Probably get close to the same results.

Carry on.

Lou Figueroa

Not all systems are scary....I really understand why you dislike them though...heck I'm a system user and I'm starting to hate them..

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Every time I read all these posts about visuals, reference points, eye position, etc. the more I think of an old episode of "The Dick Van Dyke Show" in which the punchline was, "Put both forms in a paper bag, swing it over your head and scream like a chicken."

Probably get close to the same results.

Carry on.

Lou Figueroa

Lou, trying for a ban?
Add constructively to the conversation or stay out of it.

PERIOD.

 

[JB Cases]

When it comes to CTE the point of contention has always been, and will always be the claim that two similar but not identical shots can be pocketed using the exact same steps with NO SUBCONCIOUS ADJUSTMENT. That's the crux of the battle between the two camps. The reluctance by most all CTE users to allow for any subconscious adjustment has lead to years of arguing back and forth.

For me, this is the area I can't get past. If someone posts a diagram of two shots that are slightly different and asks how the CTE user goes about making them they will always come back with the same response -- they use the exact same process for each. Then the CTE user goes on the offensive and requires the skeptic to prove that the CTE user doesn't shoot these two different shots in exactly the same fashion. This is when I always look back at the diagrammed shots and think to myself, "Does someone really need to prove that these two obviously different shots require slightly different approaches?" This is when I always walk away from the conversation puzzled by the reluctance of the CTE user to admit that the shooter must do something different on these two shots.

That was sort of the thing that constanstly happened in the 2000-2013 time frame. Fast forward to the present time and this subconscious adjustment had been replaced with "Finding the Visuals Through Experience." (Hopefully that’s not trademarked).

So basically, what it all boils down to is subconscious adjustment = finding the visuals. Had everyone just said that at the beginning we could have all been talking about chalk and low deflection shafts this whole time.

Here you go. As I have said aiming systems users have taken on EVERY shot challenge presented. Every diagram presented we have set it up and shot it to see where it fits in the parameters of the system.

Can you spot the "subconcious adjustment" here? I shoot parallel shots from each marked position and the only thing that changes for every shot taken was my body position.

On every shot I aligned myself to the Center to Edge line first, then I went down to the cue ball and pivoted (shifted) to center ball and took the shot. As you can see in the video I was careful to stroke straight through the cue ball so as not to steer the shot in any way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb9e6NuNteE

It's really easy to lump it all into subconscious adjustment. Ok, let's for a moment assume that this is correct, my thought is that if so then for me aiming systems and CTE/ProOne in particular, have proven to be the best damn key to unlocking the subconscious for getting on the shot line that I have ever seen.

The only thing is that it's all done fully aware of the steps to take for each shot faced. And it FEELS almost 100% automatic once you have practiced the steps enough to be confident in your conscious choice.

 

[robsnotes4u]

it always does because

Why did this thread end up all CTE ( pros and cons ) ?

Because it is so easy to poke holes in it. I look at it as a leaking dam where then can't stop the leaks because there isn't anything of substance that holds water.

The one nobody ever answers for me, how an with all the body types does a sweep exactly equal a 1/2 tip pivot. Who is that measurable?

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou, trying for a ban?
Add constructively to the conversation or stay out of it.

PERIOD.

Dave, can we please have a forum where we can make funny comments about aiming systems without upsetting the natives?

Lou Figueroa

 

[stan shuffett]

Because it is so easy to poke holes in it. I look at it as a leaking dam where then can't stop the leaks because there isn't anything of substance that holds water.

The one nobody ever answers for me, how an with all the body types does a sweep exactly equal a 1/2 tip pivot. Who is that measurable?

Been answered over and over.

The visuals for any CTE shot equals a 1/2 tip left or right pivot to the shot line.

That is what the whole system is about. One visually lines up to any CTE shot so that they are all the same. Just see and shoot and keep doing it over and over and over and over......never stops... All shots start at ball address 1/2 tip from the shot line....with a slight over cut to boot. Consider that a great big BONUS!

Stan Shuffett

 

[JB Cases]

Because it is so easy to poke holes in it. I look at it as a leaking dam where then can't stop the leaks because there isn't anything of substance that holds water.

The one nobody ever answers for me, how an with all the body types does a sweep exactly equal a 1/2 tip pivot. Who is that measurable?

When you are able to use your eyes to orient your body correctly then eyes sweep over the cue ball-object ball relationship leading your body to come into at what would be the equivalent of setting your tip manually at a 1/2 tip offset and then shifting so that the cue tip moves to center ball.

Does that make sense to you? Probably not because you don't have the rest of the context to fit it in. That would be the practice and study that comes with learning a new method.

It seems to me that critics want CTE/ProOne (and any aiming systems) to be more of a magic pill than aiming systems users want it to be. Those of us who use them know that it's work to retrain your brain into a new way of perceiving the shots. Seems that critics don't want it to be true that it takes work.

If one of us says it doesn't take work then we are blasted if we say it takes work we are blasted. So basically we are on blast from a tiny tiny tiny minority on AZB who just take delight in being contrary. Luckily there are hundreds of thousands of people out there interestedly learning these methods and that number grows everyday.

 

[lfigueroa]

Been answered over and over.

The visuals for any CTE shot equals a 1/2 tip left or right pivot to the shot line.

That is what the whole system is about. One visually lines up to any CTE shot so that they are all the same. Just see and shoot and keep doing it over and over and over and over......never stops... All shots start at ball address 1/2 tip from the shot line....with a slight over cut to boot. Consider that a great big BONUS!

Stan Shuffett

Stan, I've always wondered about this visuals thing as it pertains to the distance between the eyes. Not too long ago I got a new prescription and was fitted for new glasses and the optometry folks brought out this adjustable frame thingie where they could measure how far apart your eyes are. It turns out most folks are not the same and it affects things like of course your vision and depth perception, as some people have more, or less, distance between their eyes.

I was wondering how this affects picking up the right visuals, particularly if the player has hypertelorism. Is more distance between the eyes better, because it gives a person a more accurate view and greater depth perception, or is it less beneficial for other reasons, as it pertains to ProOne?

TIA.

Lou Figueroa

 

[robsnotes4u]

Incorrect

When you are able to use your eyes to orient your body correctly then eyes sweep over the cue ball-object ball relationship leading your body to come into at what would be the equivalent of setting your tip manually at a 1/2 tip offset and then shifting so that the cue tip moves to center ball.

Does that make sense to you? Probably not because you don't have the rest of the context to fit it in. That would be the practice and study that comes with learning a new method.

It seems to me that critics want CTE/ProOne (and any aiming systems) to be more of a magic pill than aiming systems users want it to be. Those of us who use them know that it's work to retrain your brain into a new way of perceiving the shots. Seems that critics don't want it to be true that it takes work.

If one of us says it doesn't take work then we are blasted if we say it takes work we are blasted. So basically we are on blast from a tiny tiny tiny minority on AZB who just take delight in being contrary. Luckily there are hundreds of thousands of people out there interestedly learning these methods and that number grows everyday.

Incorrect. I have both of Stan's DVD's spent hours on on my home table with it. That is why I have found fault through my own use, and finding holes not from anyone on here. Even though I have had discussion away from this with very educated, as in Doctor level Math and Physics Professors. They again didn't deter my wanting to do it myself.

By the way, I have spent 30 years studying the brain, hypnosis, and the subconscious. So again wrong I do understand retraining the brain. I do understand things, like when you believe someone is an authority their words by the critical faculty of the mind like a hot knife through butter without any effort. Doctors, Priests, Ministers, Hitler or anyone who you believe has authority does this without you knowing.

So it has nothing to do with what you say, it is from my personal experience.

 

[robsnotes4u]

Not an answer.

Been answered over and over.

The visuals for any CTE shot equals a 1/2 tip left or right pivot to the shot line.

That is what the whole system is about. One visually lines up to any CTE shot so that they are all the same. Just see and shoot and keep doing it over and over and over and over......never stops... All shots start at ball address 1/2 tip from the shot line....with a slight over cut to boot. Consider that a great big BONUS!

Stan Shuffett

Why does it line up 1/2 tip and not 1 tip? How can everyone move in 1/2 tip? How did you come up with a 1/2 tip. Why don't you just line up on to the shot line? Those are questions that need to answered. Simple questions, and not bashing, so don't get all huffy and defensive.

 

[stan shuffett]

Why does it line up 1/2 tip and not 1 tip? How can everyone move in 1/2 tip? How did you come up with a 1/2 tip. Why don't you just line up on to the shot line? Those are questions that need to answered. Simple questions, and not bashing, so don't get all huffy and defensive.

The visuals of CTE place one's eyes very slightly off of the shot line consistently over and over.
The 1/2 tip pivot works as the slight closure to the shot line. And it 's objective and that's a BONUS as well.
It is easy to move straight in on a fixed CB and do a 1/2 tip pivot. Not everyone gets out of the gate at the same rate but those that want to learn the system generally do. It is actually very easy, though quite different at first.
I do NOT line up on shot lines because I can not see shot lines. I got tired of guessing. CTE systematically takes me to the shot lines, those that I might know out of the zillion or so and as a BONUS, to the ones I do not know which are too numerous to count.
Do not worry about me as I am feeling quite great about CTE and how it is rapidly spreading around the world. I am passionate about what I do.

Stan Shuffett

 

[JB Cases]

Why does it line up 1/2 tip and not 1 tip?
Because that's how the method works out. It's simply how using the Center to the Edge as the initial alignment works out. The whole point of this is that someone discovered a method that works consistently. Like finding out how to make fire without knowing anything about combustion properties.

How can everyone move in 1/2 tip? How did you come up with a 1/2 tip.

The half tip offset just works. Everyone faces the same balls, the table does not move, the balls are objects that have to be used to line up regardless of body type. Whatever the shot line is the cue has to end up on it regardless of the body type holding that cue. Therefore the relationship between the eyes and the stationary balls is the one that has to be established. That is where the objectivity of the method works.

Why don't you just line up on to the shot line?

Because the shot line is not known. IF you have a shot line that is clear then you can just get down with the cue pointing down it. But the fact is that most amateurs are not able to pick the right shot line all the time. If they were able to then we would never have this conversation. We wouldn't have 20+ ghost ball aiming devices and dozen of books and videos with chapters on ghost ball.





Those are questions that need to answered. Simple questions, and not bashing, so don't get all huffy and defensive.

Those questions have been answered a thousand times over. Not bashing just pointing out the facts that every possible question you have has been answered on here and been answered on video.

 

[JB Cases]

Incorrect. I have both of Stan's DVD's spent hours on on my home table with it. That is why I have found fault through my own use, and finding holes not from anyone on here. Even though I have had discussion away from this with very educated, as in Doctor level Math and Physics Professors. They again didn't deter my wanting to do it myself.

By the way, I have spent 30 years studying the brain, hypnosis, and the subconscious. So again wrong I do understand retraining the brain. I do understand things, like when you believe someone is an authority their words by the critical faculty of the mind like a hot knife through butter without any effort. Doctors, Priests, Ministers, Hitler or anyone who you believe has authority does this without you knowing.

So it has nothing to do with what you say, it is from my personal experience.

Never said you were wrong about the brain. Can you tell us the names of these "doctor level" math and physics professors? What was the result of your discussions? What questions did you ask, what were the answers?

What are the holes you found? Can you list them? Can you demonstrate them?

Is there something preventing you from getting on the table and going through the steps on video so that your peers can see what you are doing and offer their analysis?

 

[Mr. Wilson]

If this threat continues to be a bait fest, I will close it.

I am talking to you JB.

 

[336Robin]

Thread Subject

Aiming systems and techniques that some people SELL are not necessary for everyone. That is the cold-blooded truth. You can still go hit a million balls and you might reach Nirvana or not......

However, I have thought on this A LOT. Everyone knows that there isn't an aiming system out there or a technique that I don't like. I have purposefully kept an open mind about every aiming system and every technique used by others and the bottom line is they all work for some people, sometimes a lot of people.

We aren't all built the same, physically, mentally or emotionally and that's why there are all these different ways that people suggest that you can play and improve your game.

While there is a cookie-cutter method of playing pool, it isn't for everyone BECAUSE we don't all see things the same way.

For those of you that dislike or hate (PUT IN YOUR MOST HATED SYSTEM HERE), because it doesn't work for YOU, don't think it doesn't work for SOMEONE ELSE, because it DOES. It might not help YOU, but it does help others. So instead of running behind every thread that offers another option for aiming, shooting or playing and pissing in those cheerios, consider that someone else who doesn't see things just as you do, might just be helped by that particular aiming system.

I have made it a life-long work of learning and appreciating the way different people play pool. I have probed the minds of the best pool players on the planet. I have paid for pool lessons from the best pool players on the planet. They all offer UNIQUE perspectives about how they see things and how they accomplish things and you should consider this before admonishing things that haven't helped you. Please consider that you might not need (or find it valuable) that particular piece of the puzzle but someone else MIGHT and you could be the one preventing them from improving their pool game. We aren't all made alike.

Just sayin......

JoeyA

Here is what the thread is supposed to be about before we lose the thread.