Aiming Systems: Do you really care?

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
What I mean is do you really care if anyone is using a particular aiming system?

Really, I'm just curious. For me , the simple truth is I don't care what anyone else uses.

However if they play well, I'm always interested in learning how they aim and I don't care if it's like one TOP PLAYER told me recently, "Well to tell you the truth Joey, I really don't know how I aim. Some people get mad at me when I tell them that but it's the truth. I don't know how I aim." or if it's some unique aiming system like aiming at the edges of the penumbra or the umbra, which another TOP PLAYER told me he uses.

To me, I feel some people need aiming systems to play their best pool for a variety of reasons. Some people play well simply by getting on the table and hitting a million balls.

If a person can hit a million balls and play like burning hell, I'm thrilled for them. If a banger hits balls like crap and uses an aiming system that I don't particularly like and he/she improves his game, likewise, I am thrilled with that as well.

Now the naysayers are still hanging on by a thread with their weak arguments about documentation :p and accusations that aiming system users make exaggerated claims :p. The naysayers have been proved wrong DOZENS AND DOZENS of times in this very forum by people who have never used an aiming system. Even the anonymous polls say that people are being helped by aiming systems.

The truth is that a couple of exhuberant aiming system users may have exaggerated their claims just a wee bit but they didn't do it to any reason except to celebrate their newfound success in pocketing balls. But if you listen to the naysayers, you might think that the yeasayers are trying to create some kind of knights templar secret aiming society. :killingme:

You'd also think if you listened to the naysayers that I have some kind of contract and make money on aiming system video sales. :p I wish that were true but it's not, so I'm just setting the record straight.

If you want to try and improve your pool game and it needs improvement, order a couple of aiming system videos and see which one if any helps your game.

If you don't want to improve your pool game via learning an aiming system go hit a million balls on the pool table. Either way is cool with me. I just like people to excel at the game I love. That's really all there is to it.

And if you do care about what some other person uses to aim, is it worth your time to run around like a chicken with your head cut off, spinning in circles until you collapse? :grin:

Oh and for those that don't know, I don't like anyone to attack my friends and make disparaging, mean-spirite remarks about them. :smile:

So that's basically it for me about aiming systems. Do you really care what someone else uses or what someone else purports to be using? (Or is it really just about saving face?) ;-)
 
Yes, I use Al Romero's ghost ball and Efren's Patama system.
I'm sworn to secrecy though. :smile:
 
I can say I have never posted in a single aiming thread to date but wanted the chance to post in this one.....I mean why do you guys ca s much about naysayers and yeah sayers and such? I mean its a topics that NEVER ends well and is at this point it is only started to cause more controversy or start another war of words coming from guys..... I think it's just as childish as every political thread started in the other forum.......over there it's the same ideology arguing against the other....here it's the same thing and both there are only a handful of people who care and half of them, must like over there, we all don't are about there opinions because of the history they have shown in listening:thumbup:

So in a word NO, I don't care at all, and think that this is nothing but instigating...I mean really you are intelligent, what else could it be? Over And over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and Over and over and over again...I mean c'mon....
 
JoeyA said:
What I mean is do you really care if anyone is using a particular aiming system?

Really, I'm just curious. For me , the simple truth is I don't care what anyone else uses.

However if they play well, I'm always interested in learning how they aim and I don't care if it's like one TOP PLAYER told me recently, "Well to tell you the truth Joey, I really don't know how I aim. Some people get mad at me when I tell them that but it's the truth. I don't know how I aim." or if it's some unique aiming system like aiming at the edges of the penumbra or the umbra, which another TOP PLAYER told me he uses.

To me, I feel some people need aiming systems to play their best pool for a variety of reasons. Some people play well simply by getting on the table and hitting a million balls.

If a person can hit a million balls and play like burning hell, I'm thrilled for them. If a banger hits balls like crap and uses an aiming system that I don't particularly like and he/she improves his game, likewise, I am thrilled with that as well.

Now the naysayers are still hanging on by a thread with their weak arguments about documentation :p and accusations that aiming system users make exaggerated claims :p. The naysayers have been proved wrong DOZENS AND DOZENS of times in this very forum by people who have never used an aiming system. Even the anonymous polls say that people are being helped by aiming systems.

The truth is that a couple of exhuberant aiming system users may have exaggerated their claims just a wee bit but they didn't do it to any reason except to celebrate their newfound success in pocketing balls. But if you listen to the naysayers, you might think that the yeasayers are trying to create some kind of knights templar secret aiming society. :killingme:

You'd also think if you listened to the naysayers that I have some kind of contract and make money on aiming system video sales. :p I wish that were true but it's not, so I'm just setting the record straight.

If you want to try and improve your pool game and it needs improvement, order a couple of aiming system videos and see which one if any helps your game.

If you don't want to improve your pool game via learning an aiming system go hit a million balls on the pool table. Either way is cool with me. I just like people to excel at the game I love. That's really all there is to it.

And if you do care about what some other person uses to aim, is it worth your time to run around like a chicken with your head cut off, spinning in circles until you collapse? :grin:

Oh and for those that don't know, I don't like anyone to attack my friends and make disparaging, mean-spirite remarks about them. :smile:

So that's basically it for me about aiming systems. Do you really care what someone else uses or what someone else purports to be using? (Or is it really just about saving face?) ;-)
Click to expand...

Yeasayer eggagerated claim/flat out lies: "CTE requires no feel." and "CTE is geometrically accurate."

These claims have never been verified or substantiated AT ALL. Until they are verified or substantiated, which is likely never, proponents of CTE who continue to argue on this point and make these claims are being intellectually dishonest and just flat out wrong.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the only gripe naysayers had is still relevant (except for those who don't really know what they are talking about like Ducky).

You should refrain from making topics that attack naysayers while asking about a completely different topic. It is quite cowardly and dishonest because it makes it difficult to address those attacks while staying on topic.

I can do that too. Here's my thread topic "Yeasayers are dishonest and only attack naysayers in indirect and cowardly ways. Btw, what did you have for breakfast today?"

On topic: No I don't care what aiming system you use. I care about honesty and as long as dishonest claims are made and dishonest debate tactics are used, I will be against them and the people who made them.
 
I don't care what other people do unless it can benefit me somehow. Then I will study them and try to copy them and maybe even figure out a better way.

When I watch players play if they are better than me I still try to learn from them to this day.

I used to not think about aiming beyond Ghost Ball. Actually after watching Archer I started putting my cue down a little before the ball in the GB center area. But I didnt' think about it or care. I just did it because Archer did it and I read that he did it and that made sense for me so I did it.

Before Hal and I met I never thought to consider that I was aiming wrong. I always thought that if I missed then it was because I jumped up, jigged sideways, dropped the arm, or whatever. I mean certainly I had a lot of shots where I wasn't comfortable going down into the shot in the first place so I distrusted the line I was on but hardly ever enough to get back up and refocus.

Anyway Hal made me start thinking about aiming and that's when I began to care about it. Frankly though I don't understand why there has to be so much pure hate brought into a subject that is ONLY talked about with the intention of helping people get better.

I mean EVEN if there are over-the-top claims about a particular method then SO WHAT? Trying out something is either free or costs very little and if it sucks then that will get reported. If it doesn't such then that will get reported.

It's not like a cue case that is way overhyped and when the customer gets it after paying $2000 for it realizes it's junk but is trapped into continuing the hype so he can sell it to someone else and recover as much of his money as possible.

No, this is simply a set of bodily motions that a person can try out and quit if they don't like it. At worst they spent 40 bucks or so to buy the book/dvd whatever. They can easily resell it for 20-30 even coupled with a so-so review that says they didn't get it because there is ALWAYS someone else who wants to try it.

So I don't REALLY care about aiming systems in the sense that I think everyone must use a particular one. I do care about the attitude that some people have which suggests that they must "protect" other people from "bogus" systems. There are no bogus systems because the results are easy to measure, did the ball go in or not and can you repeat it?

So far no one has shown that any system advocated results in failure to pocket more often for shots taken. Therefore the conclusion is that the systems all work to some degree.

So leave people alone and let them try them. Then this mudslinging will stop entirely. I am 100% sure of that.
 
Masayoshi said:
Yeasayer eggagerated claim/flat out lies: "CTE requires no feel." and "CTE is geometrically accurate."

These claims have never been verified or substantiated AT ALL. Until they are verified or substantiated, which is likely never, proponents of CTE who continue to argue on this point and make these claims are being intellectually dishonest and just flat out wrong.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the only gripe naysayers had is still relevant (except for those who don't really know what they are talking about like Ducky).

You should refrain from making topics that attack naysayers while asking about a completely different topic. It is quite cowardly and dishonest because it makes it difficult to address those attacks while staying on topic.

I can do that too. Here's my thread topic "Yeasayers are dishonest and only attack naysayers in indirect and cowardly ways. Btw, what did you have for breakfast today?"

On topic: No I don't care what aiming system you use. I care about honesty and as long as dishonest claims are made and dishonest debate tactics are used, I will be against them and the people who made them.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is being dishonest in any claims that may have been made.

I know everything that I have ever said about CTE/Pro One and CTE and Perfect Aim has been honest and true to the very best of my knowledge and experience.

So, the only beef you have with aiming systems is that some people have made claims that YOU feel are just outright lies. Is that correct?
 
Improving shot making IMO, is an extremely complex thing where subtle changes to one aspect of your stance, sighting, stroke, delivery, thoughts, etc .. etc .. can effect your entire ability to pocket a ball.

I truly believe, that most intermediate players labor far too much with aiming and not enough with the MANY MANY other aspects of their shot as an entity.

A lighter touch or grip on the butt of the cue.

A better smoother follow through with a touch more of acceleration perhaps.

Your eye settling a little longer on the OB prior to releasing your shot without returning to eye the CB.

A better feel for where the CB is going. Or for that matter conscious knowledge of where you are trying to get.

On and on .... All these things, if they are not correct can and will effect your pocketing. EVEN if you use the most accurate aiming system known to man. The slightest flutter in your stroke, the slightest doubt in your mind, your timing, your release any of these things and you can throw that aiming system out the window.

So, there's a ton of stuff to worry about besides blaming a miss on improper aim, cause most likely it's not an aiming issue at all!
 
JoeyA said:
I don't think anyone is being dishonest in any claims that may have been made.

I know everything that I have ever said about CTE/Pro One and CTE and Perfect Aim has been honest and true to the very best of my knowledge and experience.

So, the only beef you have with aiming systems is that some people have made claims that YOU feel are just outright lies. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

I'm beginning to see a pattern.

JoeyA, are you PocketPoint?

Tell us again the story about how the stay-puff marshmallow man backed down from his CTE claims that no feel is involved for making every shot on the table.

You know what they say about the marshmallow man, right? He's full of himself. :thumbup:

"To the best of your knowledge and experience" can be taken to mean what? That when you were starting you could make any claim, since that is what your limited knowledge/experience had shown?

Give up on the cheap marketing. Or at least admit it for a change.
 
JoeyA said:
I don't think anyone is being dishonest in any claims that may have been made.

I know everything that I have ever said about CTE/Pro One and CTE and Perfect Aim has been honest and true to the very best of my knowledge and experience.

So, the only beef you have with aiming systems is that some people have made claims that YOU feel are just outright lies. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

You (as an individual) may have been honest about CTE (I can't verify either way), but the threads you make where you take pot shots at naysayers while talking about another topic are inherently dishonest. I have "beef" with that too.

If you are going to say that you think someone is wrong say it outright so it can be properly debated. Don't hide it in a thread that has a completely different topic, especially when you made the topic yourself.
 
Last edited:
Masayoshi said:
Yeasayer eggagerated claim/flat out lies: "CTE requires no feel." and "CTE is geometrically accurate."

These claims have never been verified or substantiated AT ALL. Until they are verified or substantiated, which is likely never, proponents of CTE who continue to argue on this point and make these claims are being intellectually dishonest and just flat out wrong.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the only gripe naysayers had is still relevant (except for those who don't really know what they are talking about like Ducky).

You should refrain from making topics that attack naysayers while asking about a completely different topic. It is quite cowardly and dishonest because it makes it difficult to address those attacks while staying on topic.

I can do that too. Here's my thread topic "Yeasayers are dishonest and only attack naysayers in indirect and cowardly ways. Btw, what did you have for breakfast today?"

On topic: No I don't care what aiming system you use. I care about honesty and as long as dishonest claims are made and dishonest debate tactics are used, I will be against them and the people who made them.
Click to expand...

Its DUCKIE not DUCKY...

Until you play me, you are talking out your ass.
 
Could we perhaps have a thread category for aiming systems so the rest of us who don't give a fat, happy rat's ass can get on with garnering information of importance from the main forum?
 
JoeyA,

For a guy that says he doesn't care who uses what, you do a lot of converting.

Better question is why do you care?
Is it a pathological need to be right?

I can see some naysayers getting pissed off when someone is trying to feel superior.

You are provoking people and then crying about the result. :grin:

Instead of having to be right, it’s better to enjoy life.
 
3andstop said:
Improving shot making IMO, is an extremely complex thing where subtle changes to one aspect of your stance, sighting, stroke, delivery, thoughts, etc .. etc .. can effect your entire ability to pocket a ball.

I truly believe, that most intermediate players labor far too much with aiming and not enough with the MANY MANY other aspects of their shot as an entity.

A lighter touch or grip on the butt of the cue.

A better smoother follow through with a touch more of acceleration perhaps.

Your eye settling a little longer on the OB prior to releasing your shot without returning to eye the CB.

A better feel for where the CB is going. Or for that matter conscious knowledge of where you are trying to get.

On and on .... All these things, if they are not correct can and will effect your pocketing. EVEN if you use the most accurate aiming system known to man. The slightest flutter in your stroke, the slightest doubt in your mind, your timing, your release any of these things and you can throw that aiming system out the window.

So, there's a ton of stuff to worry about besides blaming a miss on improper aim, cause most likely it's not an aiming issue at all!
Click to expand...

You're absolutely correct.
 
Masayoshi said:
You (as an individual) may have been honest about CTE (I can't verify either way), but the threads you make where you take pot shots at naysayers while talking about another topic are inherently dishonest. I have "beef" with that too.

If you are going to say that you think someone is wrong say it outright so it can be properly debated. Don't hide it in a thread that has a completely different topic, especially when you made the topic yourself.
Click to expand...

So, the only beef you have with aiming systems is that some people have made claims that YOU feel are just outright lies. Is that correct?
 
JoeyA said:
So, the only beef you have with aiming systems is that some people have made claims that YOU feel are just outright lies. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

You (as an individual) may have been honest about CTE (I can't verify either way), but the threads you make where you take pot shots at naysayers while talking about another topic are inherently dishonest. I have "beef" with that too.
Click to expand...

No, please read more thoroughly.
 
Masayoshi said:
Please read more thoroughly.
Click to expand...

I read it quite clearly. I was just hoping you would give a straight answer.

So, the only beef you have with aiming systems is that some people have made claims that YOU feel are just outright lies. Is that correct?
 
JoeyA said:
I read it quite clearly. I was just hoping you would give a straight answer.

So, the only beef you have with aiming systems is that some people have made claims that YOU feel are just outright lies. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

I gave you a straight answer, NO. I listed the other "beef" I have with aiming systems - more specifically CTE - and their supporters quite clearly.
 
I care about systems but only as a hobby. I dont see why its so hard to admit that all systems have their limitations. Avoid words like amazing, incredible, and 100%, and nobody would say sh1t. Speed alone changes the throw angle, system out the window. English changes the contact point, system out the window. Conditions change too, more non-system adjustments required. Even if the system was on the money 95% of the time, thats not good enough. I'm not automatically missing every 20 shots.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top