Aiming systems (funny realization)

[jondrums]

Do you think that on baseball oriented message boards people post about aiming systems for pitchers - or how about distance judging systems for outfielders to throw a one-hop to home base? what about dart players - do they use aiming systems? Just wondering...

I'm personally enthralled by understanding what aiming systems exist, but at the same time, I find the best way to make balls is to try to get the cue ball where I know its supposed to go. Kind of like trying to throw a perfect fastball to the inside lower corner or delivering a lofted 40 yard pass right to the receiver's hands.

Perhaps aiming systems have so much allure because we keep believing that somewhere out there a holy grail exists that will take what mystery remains out of this game, and allow us to unfailingly put balls in the basement time after time. Maybe its just that some of us are control freaks and never learned to cut loose and go with the flow (as if missing a ball was because we didn't focus hard enough).

Jon

 

[av84fun]

Do you think that on baseball oriented message boards people post about aiming systems for pitchers - or how about distance judging systems for outfielders to throw a one-hop to home base? what about dart players - do they use aiming systems? Just wondering...

Sure Jon, there are such systems. In baseball, for example, the pitcher aims at the head of a 300+ hitter who is crowding the plate!

(-:

 

[JoeyInCali]

I find the best way to make balls is to try to get the cue ball where I know its supposed to go.

..........

 

[softshot]

Do you think that on baseball oriented message boards people post about aiming systems for pitchers - or how about distance judging systems for outfielders to throw a one-hop to home base? what about dart players - do they use aiming systems? Just wondering...

I'm personally enthralled by understanding what aiming systems exist, but at the same time, I find the best way to make balls is to try to get the cue ball where I know its supposed to go. Kind of like trying to throw a perfect fastball to the inside lower corner or delivering a lofted 40 yard pass right to the receiver's hands.

Perhaps aiming systems have so much allure because we keep believing that somewhere out there a holy grail exists that will take what mystery remains out of this game, and allow us to unfailingly put balls in the basement time after time. Maybe its just that some of us are control freaks and never learned to cut loose and go with the flow (as if missing a ball was because we didn't focus hard enough).

Jon

When precision aiming over variable distances is involved there are only two big kids on the block competition rifle shooters and pool shooters.

The rifle shooters have an aiming system built into their chosen instrument. the sights, the scope, ect.

Pool players are left to guess. what is the correct aiming system for any individual?

depends on the person if they hold their head high one system might work for them .. but a chin stroker requires something different. add in all the variable positions of the head over and around the cue and we see that aiming and shooting becomes as personalized as the shooter.

Fat folks can't get a straight level stroke due to body mechanics. but Steve Mizerak seemed to be able to hold his own.

There is no holy grail, but an understanding of various techniques allows you to pick and chose what works for you.

Everyone plays by feel when they are in the zone, but practicing and learning various systems often gives you multiple views of any given shot to chose from.

Do you want one quick pick in the lottery? or would you prefer several preselected numbers played weekly over a period of years?

Read the aiming threads take what you want and scrap the rest, but just because you scrapped it doesn't make it any less valuable to someone else.

 

[jondrums]

A very wise older pool player suggested to me that the absolute quickest way to learn to pocket balls is to use traditional "training" methods - reward yourself for successes and catalog your failures.

In other words he suggested to practice on tables with big pockets when first learning because there are more opportunities for success - releasing endorpins in the brain and subconciously reinforcing the things that led to the success.

And secondly he recommended always noticing and cataloging exactly how the shot was missed - overcut, undercut, bobbled with overspeed, came up short, ect. And also trying to mentally file away the misses for the next time a similar shot comes up.

I think its akin to anyone learning a physical action - and thus my analogy to baseball or darts.

Jon

 

[av84fun]

Jondrums..."and catalog your failures. "

ROGER THAT. In another thread, I just wrote about the HUGE leverage in practicing your Most Missed But Makable shots...i.e. the most missed of the most frequent types of shots.

Improving your percentages on those shots is vastly superior, mathematically, than practicing the hail marys that come of only 5-10% as frequently.

But as you suggest, you need to CATALOG the makable shots that you miss so you will have a matrix of what to practice.

BUT you also need to catalog SHAPE misses because the better the shape the less the frequency of borderline makable shots.

IMHO, drilling on CB distance and direction is the MOST IMPORTANT skill in pool (because it makes easy shots out of hard shots) but is the LEAST practiced!!

Let that be true for your opponents and not you.

And re: position practice...that ain't me talking...its Robert Byrne whose books/videos are SILLY not to own.
(-:

 

[3kushn]

Normally I can't hit a pocket for about an hour. I just rarely play with pockets. A few months ago I decided to get on a pool table and play around with Hals system. I ran 2 racks during about an hour of screwing around. That's a huge difference from how I normally play the game.

By the way this was on a 9' Diamond with Pockets < 2-1/2" wide.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

this was on a 9' Diamond with Pockets < 2-1/2" wide

Wow. How big were the balls?

pj
chgo

 

[DaveK]

A very wise older pool player suggested to me that the absolute quickest way to learn to pocket balls is to use traditional "training" methods - reward yourself for successes and catalog your failures.

This is very close to the learning methods discussed in the Inner Game of Tennis. The slight difference comes in the reward/catalog concept, where Gallwey say to just observe with no judgement. Just notice what happens and adjust to correct any differences between what happened and what was desired. He explains it much better than I can.

Dave

 

[jsp]

Do you think that on baseball oriented message boards people post about aiming systems for pitchers - or how about distance judging systems for outfielders to throw a one-hop to home base? what about dart players - do they use aiming systems? Just wondering...

Your analogies don't apply, simply because each of the above examples is missing a fundamental piece intrinsic to a pool shot.

A pitcher knows exactly where he wants to throw the baseball...e.g. outside corner at the knees. He just needs to physically execute. A dart player also knows exactly where he wants to throw the dart...e.g. bullseye. He just needs to execute.

For a shot in pool, generally the only thing the player exactly knows is where he wants the OB to go...e.g. in the pocket. But remember, he's not hitting the OB into the pocket with his cue. He's hitting the CB into the OB, such that the OB goes into the pocket. This is the critical middle step missing from your other examples.

The question then becomes, where exactly do you aim the CB such that it pockets the OB? Unless it's a perfectly straight in shot, the pool player doesn't have an absolute aiming point. That is where aiming systems can come into play...to determine the precise point in which to aim. Once the aiming point is determined, either through an aiming system or by feel, then that shot needs to be physically executed. But even if the intended shot is physically executed perfectly, if the aiming point is wrong, then the shot can still be missed.

 

[RunoutalloverU]

Normally I can't hit a pocket for about an hour. I just rarely play with pockets. A few months ago I decided to get on a pool table and play around with Hals system. I ran 2 racks during about an hour of screwing around. That's a huge difference from how I normally play the game.

By the way this was on a 9' Diamond with Pockets < 2-1/2" wide.

Lmao, call SVB up right now, tell him you want to give him the 6 ball in 10 ahead set for 1 million.

 

[jondrums]

For a shot in pool, generally the only thing the player exactly knows is where he wants the OB to go...e.g. in the pocket. But remember, he's not hitting the OB into the pocket with his cue. He's hitting the CB into the OB, such that the OB goes into the pocket. This is the critical middle step missing from your other examples.

You're absolutely correct about those examples!

So what about basketball players playing a shot off the glass, or a layup - no coach of mine has ever mentioned where to aim the basketball. In hockey (which I play every week) we play lots of bank shot passes off the boards. I can pass the puck off the boards right onto a guys stick, while he's moving! I've never even thought about how to do that...

Jon

 

[jondrums]

This is very close to the learning methods discussed in the Inner Game of Tennis. The slight difference comes in the reward/catalog concept, where Gallwey say to just observe with no judgement.

Hey DaveK thanks for the reference! I've been meaning to pick that book up since it was recommended to me for golf! That's a very zen idea to be present in the moment and observe without judgement.

Jon

 

[bigskyjake]

Normally I can't hit a pocket for about an hour. I just rarely play with pockets. A few months ago I decided to get on a pool table and play around with Hals system. I ran 2 racks during about an hour of screwing around. That's a huge difference from how I normally play the game.

By the way this was on a 9' Diamond with Pockets < 2-1/2" wide.

Musta been some real buckets

 

[klockdoc]

Fat folks can't get a straight level stroke due to body mechanics. but Steve Mizerak seemed to be able to hold his own.

Reminds me of a fat kid named Tony Ellin. Just think, if he would have lost some weight, he possibly could have made a name for himself, I guess...

 

[bigskyjake]

Reminds me of a fat kid named Tony Ellin. Just think, if he would have lost some weight, he possibly could have made a name for himself, I guess...

Yeah there is also this cat named Buddy something or other

 

[DaveK]

That's a very zen idea to be present in the moment and observe without judgement.

Gellway says it's "child-like", and he's right, imo. I certainly have the same wonderous feelings when I hit a 3-rail-shape shot to the exact spot I want as I felt as a kid when I chased down a fly ball or threw someone out at home. Sometimes I wonder what people think of me when I start grinning like a Cheshire cat during a practice session at a pool hall, but that wonder passes very quickly.

Dave

 

[CreeDo]

it's weird, some games are just suited for systems and some aren't.

In a video game I play, you shoot at each other with cute little animated tanks. Pick the correct angle and power and your shot will hit. In that game, there's an eternal argument about aiming with formulas and systems vs shooting with pure feel. I'm always on the side of formulas. But for pool I would never suggest a system vs. just hitting a million balls and just estimating the correct angle from experience.

I think pool has too many variables and degrees to be boiled down with a system. If you learn to divide a shot into quarters, you'll bump into a bunch of situations where you need to hit 5/8ths of the ball. If you divide it into 8ths, you'll eventually find a situation where you need to hit 7/16ths of the ball. With spin. And it looks weird and small from 6 feet away. I think even with the most careful calculations, eventually you will rely on some 'feel' to make any shot. So you might as well feel it entirely if the system's just getting you in the ballpark anyway.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...you might as well feel it entirely if the system's just getting you in the ballpark anyway.

I think getting you in the ballpark is how all pool systems work, not just aiming systems but banking/kicking/diamond systems, english systems, what-have-you. They all have to be fine-tuned in some way or another.

But systems aren't worthless just because they only get you part way there. They teach you to become very familiar with a small number of "reference points" that help narrow the guesswork and actually do make aiming objectively easier and more accurate for many players. Even the "placebo" systems that pretend to do the impossible at least give confidence to those players so their instincts can operate more effectively.

I'm quick to call out-of-bounds when a system-user's claims get too wishful, but that doesn't mean I don't think they have any value.

pj
chgo

 

[Gerry]

Normally I can't hit a pocket for about an hour. I just rarely play with pockets. A few months ago I decided to get on a pool table and play around with Hals system. I ran 2 racks during about an hour of screwing around. That's a huge difference from how I normally play the game.

By the way this was on a 9' Diamond with Pockets < 2-1/2" wide.

come on you animals!....give em a break, he's a 3 cusion player! I'm sure the pockets were 4-1/2", we all know billiards players are better then us lowly non-heated little table small balls heathens!!!LOL...

Gerry