Nice post, Neil. Now would you please find a way to restore all of your old posts.
Aiming Systems - The End Justifies the Means
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Nice post, Neil. Now would you please find a way to restore all of your old posts.
My guess would be that someone got tired of feeding the trolls, so they removed all the bait.:wink: However, some old dogs never learn, and tend to go back to their old ways. I guess some are just gluttons for punishment.:frown:
The phrase "pool physics" really over complicates what's being said. Whether a wrist twist can do anything special to the cue ball is a simple question of basic mechanical motions - like "if you hit it at this angle it goes this way and if you hit it at that angle it goes that way". The kind of simple stuff that everybody already understands, if they just look closely at the simple mechanical details. This isn't rocket surgery - a minute or two to think it through and it's obvious.
For instance, the "physics" of the wrist twist is just the simple and obvious fact that how much the cue ball spins is solely due to how far offcenter you hit it. The idea that you can change that simple fact with a special wrist motion is the difficult-to-understand version - and that's because pool "physics" is simple and intuitive common sense mechanical motion stuff. If it's hard to understand it's most likely not true.
pj
chgo
I was trying to explain simple BHE to a friend once. He said..."oh yea thats what Buddy Hall did, tuck and roll". I gave up. Its impossible to explain some things to some people.
Buddy Hall MIGHT have talked about twisting, carabao english or BHE, whatever....in HIS mind, he was doing some "special" to the cb. I say he wasnt.
Physics ALWAYS wins. Deal with it!
Buddy Hall MIGHT have talked about twisting, carabao english or BHE, whatever....in HIS mind, he was doing some "special" to the cb. I say he wasnt.
Physics ALWAYS wins. Deal with it!
PJ,
Just for clarification purposes with no ill intent:
A) the cue is delivered to the center of CB with no rotation on the cue stick axis
B) the cue is delivered to the center of CB while turning 3 degrees on the cue stick axis while in contact with the CB
Is the outcome of those two(2) functions exactly the same?
Sincerely,
RJ
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I know you asked PJ, but here's a question for you- Just how much rotation of the cue do you think you can get in .001 seconds? (clue- you won't be getting anywheres near 1/4 turn)
Neil,
I'll nibble on the bait. Give me the science to support your 'clue - you won't be getting anywheres near 1/4 turn'.
Rick
I'm not going to bother doing the math, but, and no offense, please use a little common sense here. Do you really think you can rotate the cue 1/4 turn in the 1/1000th of a second that the tip is on the ball?? Think about the rpm's you would have to put on the cue to do that.
Neil,
Let's back off of the 1/4 turn as that would even hurt my wrist. Let's say a 75 degree tip turn. How many degrees would you hazzard a guess (since you're not going to bother doing the math) one could get while the tip is in contact with the cue ball if the turn started right on or perhaps just before contact with cue ball. Tell me your best guess & if it is reasonable, I'll rephrase my question to PJ.
Respectfully,
Rick
Not to be obtuse, but the likelihood of hitting the center of the CB while applying a twist to the cue stick is less than the likelihood of a center CB hit without the twist. It is the effect of the off-center CB hit that would make it appear that the twist has imparted a special 'something' to the CB.
Other than that, what Neil said.
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Very true, but here's the math- for you to turn the cue 1/4 turn while the tip is in contact with the cb, you would have to be rotating the cue at 15,000 revolutions per minute. I seriously doubt anyone can even come close to that. Let alone be able to time that turn so it hits the cb at just the right time.
Since Neil is offline, I'll hazard a guestimation.
Let's be really generous about the angular velocity that the hypothetical shooter can apply to the stick, and put it at ~200 rpm (nearly the speed of a ceiling fan on 'high'). If we accept the approximation that a soft cue tip is in contact with the cue ball for 2/1000 sec., then we have:
200 rpm = 200/60 rps
200/60 rps * 2/1000 sec = 400/60000 = 1/150 of a rotation, or about 2.4 degrees of rotation.
Keep in mind that this is with a very generous cue stick angular velocity, and a very generous soft tip.
2.4 degrees isn't much. (and this assumes that the affecting rotation takes place at the exact .002 seconds of contact, as Neil pointed out)
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whoops! where did you (Neil) come from? I was answering on your behalf :embarrassed2
I'm hiding from those super rotating cues, I'm afraid a tip will fly off and poke my eye out. :grin:
I'd like to hear your rephrased question. If the 75-degree wrist turn is at a constant rate and takes any more than .075 sec. (about 1/13th of a second), then the tip would turn less than one degree in 1/1000 of a second of contact with the CB. For the sake of argument, let's assume it turns one degree during contact.
Edit: I see from Dr. Dave's site that tip contact time might be as long as .002 sec. for a soft tip on a slow-speed shot. So let's even double the above estimate and call it two degrees!
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I always thought the angle of the dangle is inversely proportional to the heat of the meat, provided that the maxis of the axis, and the gravity of the cavity, remain constant.
But I guess I could be wrong.
If 1/4 turn, or 90º, does so little, what do you think 3º will do??
Here's ENGLISH!'s rephrased question, to avoid going back to find it:
PJ,
Just for clarification purposes with no ill intent:
A) the cue is delivered to the center of CB with no rotation on the cue stick axis
B) the cue is delivered to the center of CB while turning 3 degrees on the cue stick axis while in contact with the CB
Is the outcome of those two(2) functions exactly the same?
Sincerely,
RJ
Just for clarification purposes with no ill intent:
A) the cue is delivered to the center of CB with no rotation on the cue stick axis
B) the cue is delivered to the center of CB while turning 3 degrees on the cue stick axis while in contact with the CB
Is the outcome of those two(2) functions exactly the same?
Sincerely,
RJ
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