drivermaker
Banned
jsp said:
The "Simplicity System".....
Aiming Sytems re-take!
- Thread starter Colin Colenso
- Start date
The "Simplicity System".....
That's it! I knew it sounded familiar. Now, excuse me while I take a step outside and pick an ear of corn from the cornfields here in middle America.drivermaker said:The "Simplicity System".....
Oh, just a side note. I don't use this system all the time. Heck, I rarely use this system. 90% of the time, I just use the conventional ghost ball method and try to estimate the location of the ghost ball's center and shoot at it. However, the few times that I use the above system are on tough backcuts, when imaginining the ghost ball is difficult for me.
Now back to breakfast, I forgot to churn some butter for my ear of corn...
drivermaker
Banned
jsp said:That's it! I knew it sounded familiar. Now, excuse me while I take a step outside and pick an ear of corn from the cornfields here in middle America.
Now back to breakfast, I forgot to churn some butter for my ear of corn...
I wasn't referring to that part of the country. Listen...nobody on the planet could possibly run 3 fookin' balls with that aiming system and I mean the best of the best pros. You might get one here and there on an occasional basis.
(I have to go to Home Depot now...I saw a sale in their flyer for door knobs)
The system is really not complicated at all. To put it in the most concise terms, you find both contact points of the cue ball and object ball, connect the two points, and shoot through a parallel line that goes through the center of the cue ball. Done. I just drew the figure to make it seem more complicated than it really is, to make me look smart.drivermaker said:
When you're done purchasing your door knobs, you know where to find me. I live in that house in which Kevin Costner lived in the Field of Dreams.drivermaker said:
It;s not that complex
In fact it's quite simple and the most accurate, the problem is that it is complex to explain to someone who doesn't know it.
If oyu look at the OB from straight behind the pocket you'll see the point on the back of the ball exactly where you want the cueball to make contact. Ok the ghost ball should be visualized as being right up against that point. Then you imagine pulling that ball straight back to wherever the CB is. That is your aiming line.
Now, to adjust for english, I used to adjust manually, for YEARS I would figure out the distance from the shot and adjust my aim for throw. Now I'm playing at shooters in Riverside and Efren comes in. He's just visiting his friend Alex who used to run Shooters, and he's playing around on the table. He's doing this shot where he's straight in along the back rail about an inch from the rail and uses follow and right spin to go three rails to line up on a shot on the other end of the table.
I asked him,( alex translated, this was in 99 or early 2000) how he was adjusting for that much english and he described the aim and pivot system.
for the longest time, I didn't use that system for the longest time. In fact, I thought that I must know more than Efren and that he had to have just had a feel for the game rather than a lot of knowledge. THAT WAS STUPID. Don't ever assume that you know more than a world class player. I thought that there was no way that that could work for the varying distances, levels of English, etc. What is the likelihood that the throw would just happen to be perfect by rotating off of the center aim point. I mean there are so many variables, the differing shafts, the different types of balls, felt etc, et al.
IT WORKS. For all shots. The only thing that is off about it is an individuals stroke. For a long time I didn;t think that it would work for shots where the CB was within twelve inches of the OB and I would use the parallel shift system within twelve inches; however, I discovered that it wasn't a defect in the system at all, but rather a defect in my stroke.
The thing about pivoting is that there is a tendency to not stroke straight through the ball there is more of a tendency to pull the wrist or to attempt to stroke straight towards the OB. DON'T!! Make sure that you are stroking straight throiugh the CB and it will go, it doens't matter how far the shot is or how much of an angle, whether it is against the rail or sitting in the pocket. Of course all of things that come from using throw come into play. the angle of deflection that the CB takes from the OB will be shorter or longer depending on whether you use inside or outside english etc etc.
If you don't use a system like this or you don't understand all of those variables you won't be able to plan your shots correctly. YOU HAVE to be able to use english on every shot if you want to improve your game. Sure proper speed control and and the tangent line can go a long way, but ideally doesn't work in the real world and you WILL need to be able to know those things in the situations that crop up from time to time.
In fact it's quite simple and the most accurate, the problem is that it is complex to explain to someone who doesn't know it.
If oyu look at the OB from straight behind the pocket you'll see the point on the back of the ball exactly where you want the cueball to make contact. Ok the ghost ball should be visualized as being right up against that point. Then you imagine pulling that ball straight back to wherever the CB is. That is your aiming line.
Now, to adjust for english, I used to adjust manually, for YEARS I would figure out the distance from the shot and adjust my aim for throw. Now I'm playing at shooters in Riverside and Efren comes in. He's just visiting his friend Alex who used to run Shooters, and he's playing around on the table. He's doing this shot where he's straight in along the back rail about an inch from the rail and uses follow and right spin to go three rails to line up on a shot on the other end of the table.
I asked him,( alex translated, this was in 99 or early 2000) how he was adjusting for that much english and he described the aim and pivot system.
for the longest time, I didn't use that system for the longest time. In fact, I thought that I must know more than Efren and that he had to have just had a feel for the game rather than a lot of knowledge. THAT WAS STUPID. Don't ever assume that you know more than a world class player. I thought that there was no way that that could work for the varying distances, levels of English, etc. What is the likelihood that the throw would just happen to be perfect by rotating off of the center aim point. I mean there are so many variables, the differing shafts, the different types of balls, felt etc, et al.
IT WORKS. For all shots. The only thing that is off about it is an individuals stroke. For a long time I didn;t think that it would work for shots where the CB was within twelve inches of the OB and I would use the parallel shift system within twelve inches; however, I discovered that it wasn't a defect in the system at all, but rather a defect in my stroke.
The thing about pivoting is that there is a tendency to not stroke straight through the ball there is more of a tendency to pull the wrist or to attempt to stroke straight towards the OB. DON'T!! Make sure that you are stroking straight throiugh the CB and it will go, it doens't matter how far the shot is or how much of an angle, whether it is against the rail or sitting in the pocket. Of course all of things that come from using throw come into play. the angle of deflection that the CB takes from the OB will be shorter or longer depending on whether you use inside or outside english etc etc.
If you don't use a system like this or you don't understand all of those variables you won't be able to plan your shots correctly. YOU HAVE to be able to use english on every shot if you want to improve your game. Sure proper speed control and and the tangent line can go a long way, but ideally doesn't work in the real world and you WILL need to be able to know those things in the situations that crop up from time to time.
Compare Notes With Joe Tucker
Kudos for the explanation. I think Joe Tucker's is exactly the same system, but with numbers on the training balls, it's something finite to look at. I think if you'll take a look at a set of Joe Tucker Aiming balls, you'll see that rather than reflecting the pocket point/contact point about the XY axis, you can actuallly see where his numbers fall since he's numbered them accordingly.
This is as good a "ghost ball" explanation as any, and probably better than most.
Fred
jsp said:
Kudos for the explanation. I think Joe Tucker's is exactly the same system, but with numbers on the training balls, it's something finite to look at. I think if you'll take a look at a set of Joe Tucker Aiming balls, you'll see that rather than reflecting the pocket point/contact point about the XY axis, you can actuallly see where his numbers fall since he's numbered them accordingly.
This is as good a "ghost ball" explanation as any, and probably better than most.
Fred
BRKNRUN said:This may just be my pesemistic mind working, but I feel like the better a player gets, the less likely they are going to give up any real detail on thier aiming system...Thier descreptions always seem to be as vague as possible...Read the aiming secrets of the pros...They are all pretty vague descriptions and usually end up with something like..."you have to feel the shot"...or "hit it a million times" ......It's seems to me like asking your high ranking religious leader of any kind some of the "difficult to answer" religion question....you always end up getting the "you have to have faith my son"
It's like that episode of South Park where all the kids are told they are going to go to hell if they don't go to confession....One of the kids asks..."But what about Timmy?....He can't go to confession...all he can say is Timmy!" ....The Nun turnes into a tap dancer.....
....Enter HH...someone that will answer the difficult questions about "aiming" ...He may very well be the messiah....(JK)
All praise HH...
Re South Park...it will be the most famous show ever before it's all said and done, imho. What about Kenny? Hell, he'd better be confessing all the time.
I've discovered that I have recently become mum on my aiming systems, at least with the people around my town. I've tried to tell them I'm on to something new (to me, anyway) but, like DM experiences, it's like talking to brick walls. So, I'm not sure if the pros keep quiet because they want to protect their "secrets," or is they're keeping quiet because they've become tired of being ignored, ridiculed, etc. I can't imagine amateurs ignoring pros to that level, but....
Ha, I started this post with the intent of posting my aiming system and here I am deciding not to do that. And, I'm not sure why.
Jeff Livingston
Do it for me buddychefjeff said:All praise HH...
Re South Park...it will be the most famous show ever before it's all said and done, imho. What about Kenny? Hell, he'd better be confessing all the time.
I've discovered that I have recently become mum on my aiming systems, at least with the people around my town. I've tried to tell them I'm on to something new (to me, anyway) but, like DM experiences, it's like talking to brick walls. So, I'm not sure if the pros keep quiet because they want to protect their "secrets," or is they're keeping quiet because they've become tired of being ignored, ridiculed, etc. I can't imagine amateurs ignoring pros to that level, but....
Ha, I started this post with the intent of posting my aiming system and here I am deciding not to do that. And, I'm not sure why.
Jeff Livingston
drivermaker
Banned
chefjeff said:I've tried to tell them I'm on to something new (to me, anyway) but, like DM experiences, it's like talking to brick walls.
Ha, I started this post with the intent of posting my aiming system and here I am deciding not to do that. And, I'm not sure why.
Jeff Livingston
You already gave the correct answer in the first paragraph above. Don't waste your breath.
Slowhand said:
Personally, I think the reason it works is because with the use of inside english, the cueball squirts to make a thinner cut. The cueball hits the cushion first, and the object balls goes on its merry way "hugging" the line. I don't believe that there's enough induced spin to make it go in (get in english).
But, that's just me.
Fred
I see dead people, er I mean ghost balls. (Thanks Koop)
Using ghost balls and other cool aiming stuff can be fun. The reality exists when a player wants to be GOOD it is important to understand the effects of throw (yes it is real), squirt, curve and deflection, but as feel. The feel part of the game comes over time with experience. Hit thousands of balls cause there is no magic here.
One simple system of object ball to the pocket is as thorough as any player needs to be. Beyond this, knowledge of effects squirt, throw,... exists and let experience take over cause the stuff changes from table to table. What changes these effects are felt and humidity. And just like 3 rail shots are not perfectly the same from table to table and playing position because of table speed, so is feel and shot making adjustments.
There is NO known or possible systems in the world that can accommodate all the variables, except experience. Yes it is experience and developed feel that becomes the enabler to move from table to table and to play well. Because you can adapt now.
Why to avoid the ghost ball, need psychotherapy here.
1. IT IS NOT REAL. This is imaginary and when in the zone things are visual and based on real stuff.
2. The focus is on a nonexistent object that has no physical dimensions and the mind can screw these things up by sizing it wrong.
3. You are adding another object, imaginary, to deal with. (Yes for very early beginners to understand where the cue ball must hit, place a real ball there to show them.)
4. The players focus is where the ghost ball is and not the entire shot. Now stuff like throw, squirt,... are not seen as they actually exists cause you are not seeing the path you instead see were the ghost ball is suppose to be.
There is no magic aiming method, there is only experience and knowledge period. Anything else is fake and will not allow the player to advance.
I say, see the line, play the shot, over and over and over and over again. Soon the player will be able to adjust according to the shot they are playing because of experience. Following this will enable the higher creativity in the player to flurish to do stuff that is beyond the basics.
I honestly believe that the best athletes in the world we call "naturals" see things in the most simplistic ways, they simply develop their skill and creativity from there without the barriers of complications.
Using ghost balls and other cool aiming stuff can be fun. The reality exists when a player wants to be GOOD it is important to understand the effects of throw (yes it is real), squirt, curve and deflection, but as feel. The feel part of the game comes over time with experience. Hit thousands of balls cause there is no magic here.
One simple system of object ball to the pocket is as thorough as any player needs to be. Beyond this, knowledge of effects squirt, throw,... exists and let experience take over cause the stuff changes from table to table. What changes these effects are felt and humidity. And just like 3 rail shots are not perfectly the same from table to table and playing position because of table speed, so is feel and shot making adjustments.
There is NO known or possible systems in the world that can accommodate all the variables, except experience. Yes it is experience and developed feel that becomes the enabler to move from table to table and to play well. Because you can adapt now.
Why to avoid the ghost ball, need psychotherapy here.
1. IT IS NOT REAL. This is imaginary and when in the zone things are visual and based on real stuff.
2. The focus is on a nonexistent object that has no physical dimensions and the mind can screw these things up by sizing it wrong.
3. You are adding another object, imaginary, to deal with. (Yes for very early beginners to understand where the cue ball must hit, place a real ball there to show them.)
4. The players focus is where the ghost ball is and not the entire shot. Now stuff like throw, squirt,... are not seen as they actually exists cause you are not seeing the path you instead see were the ghost ball is suppose to be.
There is no magic aiming method, there is only experience and knowledge period. Anything else is fake and will not allow the player to advance.
I say, see the line, play the shot, over and over and over and over again. Soon the player will be able to adjust according to the shot they are playing because of experience. Following this will enable the higher creativity in the player to flurish to do stuff that is beyond the basics.
I honestly believe that the best athletes in the world we call "naturals" see things in the most simplistic ways, they simply develop their skill and creativity from there without the barriers of complications.
Colin Colenso said:Do it for me buddy
Drivermaker said:
Hmmmm...to whom should I listen? hmmmmmm
For Colin, I'll do it. And, DM, you had success with Colin, but of course he's not just another brick in the wall.
Disclaimer: I haven't had read any aiming books, or had phone discussions with HH, I just came up with this on my own. They are probably filled with flaws which I haven't discovered yet, so type away if you see any, please.
I have 5 aims: 0-4. Assume that I'm cutting the object ball to the left for these examples. Reverse the terms if cutting the other direction.
Zero is a full hit where I aim the center of the cue stick at the center of the object ball. Result: ob goes straight, 0 degrees. What I say to myself while upright: "Center to Center."
# 1 is where I aim the left side of my cue tip to the middle of the object ball. Result: ob goes left 7 1/2 degrees. "Left to Center"
#2 is where I aim the right side of my tip to the right side of the ob. Result: ob goes left 15 degrees. "Right to Right"
#3 is where I aim the center of my tip to the right edge of the object ball. Result: ob goes left 30 degrees. "Center to Right" (aka The Spot Shot" and "The Half-Ball Hit")
#4 is where I aim the left edge of the tip to the right edge of the ob. Result: ob goes left 45 degrees. "Left to Right"
Beyond 45 degrees, I use parallel aiming or ghost ball.
Assuming no side spin, for now.
Comments, please.
Jeff Livingston
Thanks Jeff,chefjeff said:
There's a quote in the bible (the front part I think
) that says do not cover a candle, but alight more with it...or something to that extent. But you unleashing that rubbish on us is something entirely different *joking*It's an interesting system and seems similar to what Fred has outlined.
A few questions though:
When you say aim at the center of the OB, I assume you mean the contact point, right?
And do you work out fractions such as halves of these when the angles are intermediary?
drivermaker
Banned
chefjeff said:
Somewhere back in the archives a while ago...vapoolplayer posted a very thorough and detailed way of using a "ferrule aiming system" such as what you're into. If you do a search on him and aiming and ferrule you might be able to dig it out and see if there's more. As I recall, I'm quite sure there was.
Colin Colenso said:Thanks Jeff,
There's a quote in the bible (the front part I think
It's an interesting system and seems similar to what Fred has outlined.
A few questions though:
When you say aim at the center of the OB, I assume you mean the contact point, right?
And do you work out fractions such as halves of these when the angles are intermediary?
When I say "aim at the center of the ob," I mean the center of the ob as the cueball sees it, NOT the contact point (unless that is the center too, as in shot #0). I pick a small pinpoint/line of the vertical center of the ob as my guide.
For example, in shot #1 ("Left to Center"), while standing, I close my non-dominant eye, sight the left side of the tip with the center of the ob. As I do this, I walk into my stance so my body is aligned to this aim. While settling into my stance, I may tweak any other details necessary, but---and this cost me some misses until I was confindent with these aiming angles----but I always stay with my original aiming alignment because if I've chosen the angle correctly, they ALWAYS work for me.
Fractions never seem to come into play, believe it or not! As strange as it seems and with as many variables as there are in pool, these five shots cover AT LEAST 99.9% of the shots. Set up various shots and try them. Move the cueball just a tiny amount and the aim magically changes to the next number. Perhaps my mind is compensating without me being consciously aware of it, but being the nerd I am, I've pretty much eliminated that consideration. I'm still open to having that proven wrong, but I don't think it will be.
Caveat: Imho, wait to change anything to do with aiming until you're done with the next IPT, as changes such as these can result in confusion and murkiness for a while.
Jeff Livingston