Aiming Voodoo Video

[Monkey-Boy]

Anyone that does name calling using the words Nazi and Gestopo to refer to the so called Naysayers has no room to talk. Oh and lest not forget the large font which is eqaul to yelling in the real world.

You guys just can't stand the heat, can't prove one thing, and act as if you are the Kings of AZ Billiards when I reality all you guys are trying to be are big fish in a little pond.


Oh, by the way, this so called aiming is nothing more then hocus pocus. It not real, it totally relies on feel and yet you guys seem to think it is a system. There are no systems in pool. Only concepts on how to do things.

All the true skill comes from hours of practice.

I can show shot after shot where this so called system doesn't work. Plus if you try to learn mutliple systems to match all the difference type of shots there are in pool, you'll never truely improve or you'll get tried and frustrated as one system has already mentioned.

GB is the only system that works for all shots. Why? because you do not need to use the OB in any form for getting in your stance. Funny thing, you watch player.....they all pivot in some form to get into a stance. So does that make them all pivot users. No, The pivot is something that comes just from playing and is nothing really special or new.

Show using this system on a rail first shot, a kick, a carom, and not show just a couple a easy cuts shots and then make the asseration that this will will on all shots. Prove it. Show the above shots using this system.

It can't be done that's why. It's unreal the limited imagination system user have when it comes to creative shot making.

Oh show using this system with a bridge since this system works on all shots.

Please be quiet. How someone can have an opinion on something they have never tried is beyond me.

Duckie, go and have a try of this system for 2 hours maximum. If you do the process of the CTE/Pro1 correctly, I believe your views of this 'hocus pocus' system will very quickly change.

 

[Monkey-Boy]

I can use this system with a bridge SUPER effectively. It's basic.

Exactly. Your still sighting the ball correctly, and doing everything right when down on the shot with the bridge/rest.

 

[ThePoliteSniper]

My question is getting ignored once again.
Apparently you don't want a discussion.
I'm out.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Exactly. Your still sighting the ball correctly, and doing everything right when down on the shot with the bridge/rest.

I never have a clue of where to aim until after the pivot is complete. I never sight the OB into the pocket either. However, I do slide the bridge back before I pivot.

 

[JB Cases]

Anyone that does name calling using the words Nazi and Gestopo to refer to the so called Naysayers has no room to talk. Oh and lest not forget the large font which is eqaul to yelling in the real world.

You guys just can't stand the heat, can't prove one thing, and act as if you are the Kings of AZ Billiards when I reality all you guys are trying to be are big fish in a little pond.


Oh, by the way, this so called aiming is nothing more then hocus pocus. It not real, it totally relies on feel and yet you guys seem to think it is a system. There are no systems in pool. Only concepts on how to do things.

All the true skill comes from hours of practice.

I can show shot after shot where this so called system doesn't work. Plus if you try to learn mutliple systems to match all the difference type of shots there are in pool, you'll never truely improve or you'll get tried and frustrated as one system has already mentioned.

GB is the only system that works for all shots. Why? because you do not need to use the OB in any form for getting in your stance. Funny thing, you watch player.....they all pivot in some form to get into a stance. So does that make them all pivot users. No, The pivot is something that comes just from playing and is nothing really special or new.

Show using this system on a rail first shot, a kick, a carom, and not show just a couple a easy cuts shots and then make the asseration that this will will on all shots. Prove it. Show the above shots using this system.

It can't be done that's why. It's unreal the limited imagination system user have when it comes to creative shot making.

Oh show using this system with a bridge since this system works on all shots.

Actually we have withstood the heat quite well.

We have nothing to prove. The whole point of even presenting and talking about this is to convey that there are other ways to aim in pool beside ghost ball which work. The goal of this is to play better pool.

What's wrong with that?

I mean it doesn't have to be only one way and no other. Ghost Ball is a valid system and it works.

So you don't like any other aiming system other than GB, that's fine. Why do you have to be here though and trying to ruin the conversation about other aiming systems?

It's not as if there will be only one or that GB will stop being taught. Why not just stay out of the conversation if you have no interest in contributing anything positive? Why not just allow the people who want to mess around with these systems the space to do so in peace.

If you were in the pool room and a group of players were having a good time on a table talking about an aiming system other than GB would you go over there and berate them as you constantly do here?

 

[JoeyA]

Anyone that does name calling using the words Nazi and Gestopo to refer to the so called Naysayers has no room to talk. Oh and lest not forget the large font which is eqaul to yelling in the real world.

You guys just can't stand the heat, can't prove one thing, and act as if you are the Kings of AZ Billiards when I reality all you guys are trying to be are big fish in a little pond.


Oh, by the way, this so called aiming is nothing more then hocus pocus. It not real, it totally relies on feel and yet you guys seem to think it is a system. There are no systems in pool. Only concepts on how to do things.

All the true skill comes from hours of practice.

I can show shot after shot where this so called system doesn't work. Plus if you try to learn mutliple systems to match all the difference type of shots there are in pool, you'll never truely improve or you'll get tried and frustrated as one system has already mentioned.

GB is the only system that works for all shots. Why? because you do not need to use the OB in any form for getting in your stance. Funny thing, you watch player.....they all pivot in some form to get into a stance. So does that make them all pivot users. No, The pivot is something that comes just from playing and is nothing really special or new.

Show using this system on a rail first shot, a kick, a carom, and not show just a couple a easy cuts shots and then make the asseration that this will will on all shots. Prove it. Show the above shots using this system.

It can't be done that's why. It's unreal the limited imagination system user have when it comes to creative shot making.

Oh show using this system with a bridge since this system works on all shots.

Why are you wasting your time, addressing me?

I'm really not interested in arguing with guys like you or even trading jabs, so please go ply your trade elsewhere.

Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

Actually we have withstood the heat quite well.

We have nothing to prove. The whole point of even presenting and talking about this is to convey that there are other ways to aim in pool beside ghost ball which work. The goal of this is to play better pool.

What's wrong with that?

I mean it doesn't have to be only one way and no other. Ghost Ball is a valid system and it works.

So you don't like any other aiming system other than GB, that's fine. Why do you have to be here though and trying to ruin the conversation about other aiming systems?

It's not as if there will be only one or that GB will stop being taught. Why not just stay out of the conversation if you have no interest in contributing anything positive? Why not just allow the people who want to mess around with these systems the space to do so in peace.

If you were in the pool room and a group of players were having a good time on a table talking about an aiming system other than GB would you go over there and berate them as you constantly do here?

John,
That's a very level-headed response to Duckie.
It's beyond me why people want to cause trouble on the forum.

 

[JoeyA]

pj won't be with us any longer. Just to head off the questions, here is his reply to a PM trying to reason with him.

It's too bad about Patrick. Some of Patrick's posts were interesting and thought provoking. I'm glad that it wasn't my admonishment that was the icing on the cake. His general disrespect for practically everyone is what got him canned.

I think that Patrick could have used John Barton's method of dealing with annoying posts/posters and everything would have been all right.

C'est La Vie!

 

[Neil]

John,
That's a very level-headed response to Duckie.
It's beyond me why people want to cause trouble on the forum.

It shows a lot about their personality. Everything has to be THEIR way. They have to be controlling. They have a very limited view of life, and anything new they want to dismiss because they can't handle it. P.J. got so flustered when he knew he was fighting a losing battle on here that he actually blew up at the moderator! At least now he won't have to worry about admitting to anyone that he was wrong all along.

 

[JB Cases]

Just pretend your cue extends to the OB plane and pivot along the arc (as if your eyes were the center of the circle and the OB were the edge of the circle). This isn't feel, imo. That's why RonV's hip pivot is so powerful because it creates a larger circle by forcing the center of the circle away from the OB plane. For 1/2 ball pivots, I think a hip pivot is req'd unless you can pivot from your shoulder like Bustamante. With each practice stroke, he moves a little closer to center. If you do that, you can maintain the arc with just your arm. Otherwise, if you just move your back arm in 1 movement, you risk pivoting from the bridge (which is the wrong arc to center ball).

If you pivot a smaller distance, you can pivot your back hand because the short distance forces a flat arc. Regardless, you always have to be mindful of the OB plane. You'll soon find out the pivot has no feel involved, imo.

If you look at the pic above, when you move your tip along that arc - the pivot point works itself out.

Who the hell knows where the pivot point is and who cares. As a player, you're NEVER mindful of pivot points unless it has to do with BHE.

Thank you Dave. I appreciate it.

 

[champ2107]

I have been shooting a cte version i learned off eezbank for i guess a couple years now and im pretty good at it. I dont shoot 100% of shots with cte in every game i play, it is just easier on some shots like kicking,caroms,combos to shoot them the traditional way. As for bridging shots, i usually shoot them with cte 75% of the time, since i have a pretty good feel on cte aim.

Is there anyone here that shoots cte/pivot system on every shot, honestly?

 

[JB Cases]

I have been shooting a cte version i learned off eezbank for i guess a couple years now and im pretty good at it. I dont shoot 100% of shots with cte in every game i play, it is just easier on some shots like kicking,caroms,combos to shoot them the traditional way. As for bridging shots, i usually shoot them with cte 75% of the time, since i have a pretty good feel on cte aim.

Is there anyone here that shoots cte/pivot system on every shot, honestly?

Someone said something about not using CTE or 90/90 in action. As in they wouldn't recommend using it when gambling.

I use it when gambling and last week I gave a really really good player 11:8 in one pocket for $75 a game on an unfamiliar table.

I live by the sword and die by the sword and so I use CTE on every shot where the ball goes directly to the pocket and every one rail bank shot.

For kick shots I use the mirror system for one rail kicks.

In the one pocket matches I just mentioned I did try to use "feel" on some one rail banks and dogged them horribly. Using CTE I either made them or lagged them to the hole.

I even use CTE on straight in shots. I am trying to train myself to use it all the time and not mix the methods. I figure that if I do this then it will become more and more natural for me.

I am quite anxious to get Stan's DVD and learn the ProOne version. I am sure that Stan has refined the technique and I want to see what I am doing wrong.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Is there anyone here that shoots cte/pivot system on every shot, honestly?

I do on every shot. Why wouldn't you? The only exception is combos and kicks. There are some kicks you can use with CTE, however.

CTE is a ball pocketing system (cut system) primarily. There are pivots for 9b breaks, 14.1 breaks (my fav) and 1P breaks as well.

Anyways, my question is why wouldnt you pivot on every shot when it puts the ball in the hole? That's how Hal presented it to me and I've pivoted on every shot since.

Dave

 

[eezbank]

It shows a lot about their personality. Everything has to be THEIR way. They have to be controlling. They have a very limited view of life, and anything new they want to dismiss because they can't handle it. P.J. got so flustered when he knew he was fighting a losing battle on here that he actually blew up at the moderator! At least now he won't have to worry about admitting to anyone that he was wrong all along.

Hats off to Mr Wilson for giving him a chance to curve his behavior. I think Wilson was well aware of Pats positive contributions to the forum and that's why he let it go as far as it did. The response Pat gave him in PM really left him with no choice. He didn't want to follow the rules.

 

[JB Cases]

John,
You're one of the few AZB players that I have played against. It has been a long time since we first met in person. You didn't have a bad game back then, nor did I.

The reason for me posting is to corroborate some of your statements.

The incredible shot making category is something special and I do know what you are talking about. When a person uses CTE/Pro One the way that Stan Shuffett teaches it, there are some shots that are very difficult to make; shots like back cuts where it is difficult to see the ghost ball or to imagine the contact point to contact point. When using CTE/Pro One, IF you do the correct things the ball splits the pocket. Shots that go on this side of the pocket or that side of the pocket or once in a while in the pocket, can now fall directly into the center of the pocket, providing you do the same correct thing over and over. That being said, I realize that if you do the correct alignment, aiming and stroking for ghost ball you will also make the shot but I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes it seems that it is FAR easier to do the same thing over and over using Stan Shuffett's CTE/Pro One.

I'm still learning and experimenting with CTE/ProOne however just yesterday I went back to just aiming and shooting to see if my recent loss at a local tournament had anything to do with CTE/Pro One. My conclusions is that didn't have much to do with my poor outting.

The confidence you talk about when using CTE/Pro One is pretty incredible. I too have experienced this as well. I've heard other proponents making statements that are bordering on hyperbole, but when you experience it for yourself, you begin to understand some of the euphoria. I'm not sure what gives you the confidence, other than easier pocketing of the balls. For me, it has a lot to do with pivoting to the center of the cue ball and my ability to focus better along with the knowledge that I seem to be aiming better. Last night I tried finding the center of the cue ball aiming in my old contact point to contact point way and I seemed to have some good confidence with aiming that way as well. I think that some of that fidgeting that many players do when they get down on the shot hurts their shot making because sometimes they guess wrong and sometimes they guess right about what looks right. You bring up another interesting point about how shots look when using CTE/Pro One. Sometimes the more difficult shots don't look right but when the balls split the pocket you wonder what the hell you have been looking at all of these years. Anyway, to say that CTE/Pro One is controversial is an understatement.

I think Stan's video on CTE/Pro One will be a benchmark and put a lot of the garbage that is out there right now to bed once and for all.

I also believe that his video will bring new controversial discussion to the table but the bottom line, in my opinion, is that there will be a lot of people making more shots using CTE/Pro One. If they want to learn how to get shape they will need to take Stan's Foundation Course like the professionals and other wannabees like me.

Anyway, I'm impressed in your new way of communicating and it's doing wonders for the forum. Thanks for bringing this subject up. We agree on a lot of points about CTE/Pro One.

CTE/Pro One does seem to increase one's accuracy in making balls.

You can adjust for throw, swerve, squirt and shape when using CTE/Pro One. As with any aiming system these adjustments are minute.

I'm glad to see Hal Houle and Stan Shuffett getting their day in the sun.:thumbup:


JoeyA

This is exactly right and I knew you would understand it. You and I love one pocket and we are about the same speed I'd guess with you about a ball better I'd say.

I wish I had a recording of the games I played the other night. Not exactly top shelf one pocket BUT some of the shots were. You know exactly what I mean when I say that in one hole sometimes you just have to bring it and there is no place to hide. You just have to come with the shot or you will sell out.

Some of those shots are shots that almost never come up in any other game. Some of them are shots that come up but in other games the smart move is not to try to make them but instead to play an easier safe. But in one pocket you almost have to take them because there is no safe place available. You know what I mean.

Execution under pressure has always been my weakness in one pocket. A year ago without CTE I could not give anyone any weight in one pocket much less the top shelf players I am giving weight to now.

For those reading this be honest. If you were playing a guy who didn't know anything about one pocket but he can lay down 5 packs playing nine ball and banks balls like they are hangers would you offer him weight playing one pocket? Let's say that you COULD NOT get there playing him 9 ball if you were getting the 7/8 wild. Would you offer him 11:8 playing one hole? Could you beat him if he needed one ball and you needed 12?

The reason I say this is because that precisely the situation I was in last week. The ONLY reasons I could be competitive in one hole is because I knew how to move and he didn't AND because CTE allowed me to focus on executing the shots I needed to make.

I came with shots that I have never come with in a decade of playing one pocket. Shots that I have always dogged because of uncertainty. Since using CTE I am certain of my aim and thus I focus on my stroke and speed and the result is amazing. It's as if the cue ball is on a string.

Joey, my new way of communicating is to put the people who I feel are being antagonistic on Super Ignore where they are completely invisible. So I don't even see that they exist on the forum as if they have been erased and it's basically out of sight - out of mind. Thus, like with CTE, I can focus on the positive comments and respond accordingly.

Try it, I think that you will find it to be better for you as well. Go to my blog on AZ to get the information about how to implement "Super Ignore" (my name for it). It's really the nuts when you want to have a better forum experience and get rid of people you don't want to see.

 

[champ2107]

Someone said something about not using CTE or 90/90 in action. As in they wouldn't recommend using it when gambling.

I use it when gambling and last week I gave a really really good player 11:8 in one pocket for $75 a game on an unfamiliar table.

I live by the sword and die by the sword and so I use CTE on every shot where the ball goes directly to the pocket and every one rail bank shot.

For kick shots I use the mirror system for one rail kicks.

In the one pocket matches I just mentioned I did try to use "feel" on some one rail banks and dogged them horribly. Using CTE I either made them or lagged them to the hole.

I even use CTE on straight in shots. I am trying to train myself to use it all the time and not mix the methods. I figure that if I do this then it will become more and more natural for me.

I am quite anxious to get Stan's DVD and learn the ProOne version. I am sure that Stan has refined the technique and I want to see what I am doing wrong.

Not use it while gambling, I dont get why someone would say this? My game now is 98% cte and has been for a couple years. If i got money on a game, im using cte 100%, im no sucker lol.

It comes to me pretty natural now that i dont even think about it when im looking over the shot, i automatically drop into cte and shoot.

I just feel it benefits me to have options to not totally rely on cte for every single shot.

I am putting my order in this week for stans dvd and hope it clears up some of my second guessing on some certain angled shots.

 

[Slide Rule]

My intent on posting the words he used was to attain recognition. I always am troubled when someone is banned. PJ has made a number of points that have been useful and insightful. But as far as CTE, his mind is granite and his words distracting. Same for selected issues discussed on NPR.

Perhaps the time will help him as his ego needed no outside stroking.

If you are upset at this grand part of the year, take some time for yourself and those you care for. Hug them all. This is a special time.

Merry Christmas.

pj won't be with us any longer. Just to head off the questions, here is his reply to a PM trying to reason with him.

 

[mikepage]

It's too bad about Patrick. [...]!

Even more too bad about the forum.

The de-facto new "rules" of discussion here,

--where it's perfectly fine to make unsubstantiated claims...

--where there's no community pressure to define clearly any words you use

are the deathknell of any substantive discussion where we all gain in understanding... Losing Pat just fits with the trend. Sad...

 

[alstl]

Even more too bad about the forum.

The de-facto new "rules" of discussion here,

--where it's perfectly fine to make unsubstantiated claims...

--where there's no community pressure to define clearly any words you use

are the deathknell of any substantive discussion where we all gain in understanding... Losing Pat just fits with the trend. Sad...

That's why I quit posting in the other thread, not worth getting banned over $100.

 

[Luxury]

Just bought Stan's DVD. Looking forward to joining the discussion.