Aiming Wing Shots for Maximum Consistency

Sloppy Pockets said:
Back in my 20s I was out drinking with my best buddy Billy and we got in a fight over a girl. Billy ended up with the girl and I ended up getting supremely drunk and wrecking my car. The next day, Billy came by to discuss the matter of the girl, and the car, and we ended up shaking hands and drinking a bunch more and getting very wasted. I was still pissed at him, though, so I started challenging him at stuff. Arm wrestling (he won), beer chugging (I won), foot race (I think we both lost that one), and so on.

At one point I picked up a good size rock, drained my can of beer and bet him $20 he could toss it in the air and I could hit it with the rock. He jumped all over that, so I got set and he threw it as high as he could. As it was leaving his hand I could suddenly see the entire shot, and exactly where the rock and the beer can would meet in the air. Just before the can hit the highest part of its arc I let fly with my best shot and just blasted the thing right out of the sky, almost exactly like I had envisioned it in my mind. I hit it so well that it folded back over the rock and they fell to the ground together.

He just stared at me for several seconds while I hid my utter shock at what I had just done. Then I looked him square in the eye and asked, "Double or nothing?" He wanted no part of that action anymore and just paid me the twenty, and I never told him that, even sober, I probably would have missed 50 in a row after that. But that one shot I could see ahead of time as clear as can be, and I remember it to this day as an example of what the mind can direct the body to do, even if it's something you've never even tried before.

I have experienced this phenomenon numerous times in my life in many other areas, including at the table. It is always a fleeting thing for me, but maybe some are better than others at this sort of thing. I feel that if we could only have complete control of this part of our minds, we might all be champions. I also feel that this is part of the reason why some of us (myself included) can shoot a lot better after we've been drinking. Our inhibitions are gone and we really start to believe in ourselves and our abilities. We just "do it", and we find out that it actually works.
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Thanks for sharing. I can relate this post (not the drinking part :) ) to when I was 11 or so and shot clay targets for the first time. I was amazed that I was able to make 7 out of 10. Not sure how I did it but after that time every time when I was trying to think or control it, I started missing and when I trusted my instincts I was right on the target most of the time (far from always, still not bad. ). And these are not easy to shoot since clay targets are flying around 70 mph. Somehow we walk, run, jump, catch, etc. and not think how we do it. Maybe shooting is one of basic instincts related to hunting.
 
We all have this hidden ability, and first we must be willing to believe to open the

Sloppy Pockets said:
Back in my 20s I was out drinking with my best buddy Billy and we got in a fight over a girl. Billy ended up with the girl and I ended up getting supremely drunk and wrecking my car. The next day, Billy came by to discuss the matter of the girl, and the car, and we ended up shaking hands and drinking a bunch more and getting very wasted. I was still pissed at him, though, so I started challenging him at stuff. Arm wrestling (he won), beer chugging (I won), foot race (I think we both lost that one), and so on.

At one point I picked up a good size rock, drained my can of beer and bet him $20 he could toss it in the air and I could hit it with the rock. He jumped all over that, so I got set and he threw it as high as he could. As it was leaving his hand I could suddenly see the entire shot, and exactly where the rock and the beer can would meet in the air. Just before the can hit the highest part of its arc I let fly with my best shot and just blasted the thing right out of the sky, almost exactly like I had envisioned it in my mind. I hit it so well that it folded back over the rock and they fell to the ground together.

He just stared at me for several seconds while I hid my utter shock at what I had just done. Then I looked him square in the eye and asked, "Double or nothing?" He wanted no part of that action anymore and just paid me the twenty, and I never told him that, even sober, I probably would have missed 50 in a row after that. But that one shot I could see ahead of time as clear as can be, and I remember it to this day as an example of what the mind can direct the body to do, even if it's something you've never even tried before.

I have experienced this phenomenon numerous times in my life in many other areas, including at the table. It is always a fleeting thing for me, but maybe some are better than others at this sort of thing. I feel that if we could only have complete control of this part of our minds, we might all be champions. I also feel that this is part of the reason why some of us (myself included) can shoot a lot better after we've been drinking. Our inhibitions are gone and we really start to believe in ourselves and our abilities. We just "do it", and we find out that it actually works.
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That's right and that's how pool becomes, when we learn to "get out of our own mind's way".....of course you had to know how to throw the rock (first) to hit the can and we all have to know the fundamentals of how the pool's pre shot routine works, and it's all very similar.

The better we understand the game, the more we can trust out own hidden talents....you see we can't begin with that Trust, we have to go through the stages of "being willing to believe," then "believing," and then, finally Trusting it will happen.

We all have this hidden ability, and first we must be willing to believe to open the door to believing, then to trusting.....and ultimately to faith that it will happen consistently, and then it will. .......'The Game is the Teacher'
 
Yes, this is the best way to learn how to "aim" without aiming.

(((Satori))) said:
The "Nike" system? Don't think about how, just do it!

I have won lots of dough with regular size balls on a snooker table getting 3 to 1 on the money on this shot. This is probably my favorite prop bet. With the right setup they are always eager to jack the bet. They think they have the nuts and that is when you miraculously sink about four or five in a row. Quick and easy.
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Yes, this is the best way to learn how to "aim" without aiming.....it's the "thoughtless thought," and "effortless effort" that the champions have that separate them from the struggling levels of players.

This is why they have trouble explaining how they "aim," because they do it subconsciously.
 
CJ Wiley said:
Yes, this is the best way to learn how to "aim" without aiming.....it's the "thoughtless thought," and "effortless effort" that the champions have that separate them from the struggling levels of players.

This is why they have trouble explaining how they "aim," because they do it subconsciously.
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Phil Burford is a fine young professional player from Europe that once had no clue how he aimed. Phil is a superior player now because he CAN explain how he aims. He understands the visual nature of how he connects with the table as well as his physical movements that take his vision to the shot line.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
Phil Burford is a fine young professional player from Europe that once had no clue how he aimed. Phil is a superior player now because he CAN explain how he aims. He understands the visual nature of how he connects with the table as well as his physical movements that take his vision to the shot line.

Stan Shuffett
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Phil is a very good player and I've been on the wrong end of a spanking by him before. I notice a lot of good players have no clue how they aim and assume its from playing a long time. Then we move onto the very good and great players with the likes of Phil, Daz, Chris, Shane and the list is endless but they all have one thing in common - they're all aware and know how they aim. There are a few exceptions where great players still don't know how they aim, but the majority do.

I think Phil has gone to the next step and is on the right tracks in becoming one of those great players by understanding how he aims.
 
because it's using basically two different sides of the brain. (so to speak)

stan shuffett said:
Phil Burford is a fine young professional player from Europe that once had no clue how he aimed. Phil is a superior player now because he CAN explain how he aims. He understands the visual nature of how he connects with the table as well as his physical movements that take his vision to the shot line.

Stan Shuffett
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That's because you taught him, Stan, before that he didn't have a referential index. Most players aim with a system, however, it's below their level of consciousness.....and when competing it's probably better that way. I know when I'm explaining a lot of things it's difficult to play "in the zone"......because it's using basically two different sides of the brain. (so to speak) I do explain my Aiming System on the 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' DVD or PPV at www.cjwiley.com
 
CJ Wiley said:
Does anyone know how we aim Wing Shot?
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We don't aim at a wing shot. We know it. The reason we know it is because the target is not on the table. It is inside us. I shoot wing shots without seeing the ball. I roll the ball and put my head down looking at the floor and close my eyes. I still make the ball. I do not know or care about how or why I can do it but I have done it many times in front of many different witnesses. The one thing I do believe is that if I ever see myself do it, like a on video, I will never be able to do it again. My setup line is I'm going to show you a shot I've never seen before. While they are speaking the question how can you....I shoot the shot and say I've never seen that shot. I just did it one day. :grin:
 
They will comment on how good their feel/touch was because that's the difference

To do anything consistently requires some type of "system". I think players, especially in this Aiming Forum are mislead about what an aiming "system" really is and how it works. One thing you need before aiming even matters is a "system" for hitting the cue ball straight every time. If you're mishitting the cue ball there's no aiming system that could matter.

If you play well I'm sure you have some kind of pre shot routine to accomplish this with your feet, body angles, hand/cue alignment, etc. Then it's essential to see the cue ball and object ball connect in a way that creates the angle you are trying to "create" to make your next pool shot.

This can be done a variety of ways and you can call this a "system" or not, it's up to you. I can use several "aiming systems" if I choose to, however, the most important thing to me is to AIM WITH THE CUE BALL, instead of "AT" the object ball. Your distance from the cue ball you can control on a consistent basis, and this is impossible with the object ball.

Therefore, the specific "aiming" is easier done using a specific part of the cue ball and a "relative" spot on the object ball. Whether you use the top, bottom or middle of the object ball I feel it's important to focus on the CENTER or EDGE (depending on how much "cut" you need) of the object ball to calculate your angle with.

I look at ALL shots like they're "straight in" first before letting my mind focus on what angle I need to "Create". When all is said and done pool is a creative game played with feel and touch, the eyes are used to establish the required information for each shot.

I've never heard a champion talk about winning a tournament or match because their "eyes were good that day." They will comment on how good their feel/touch was because that's the "difference that makes the difference." 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
CJ Wiley said:
You are on the right track.....the process is to just look straight at the object ball and let your subconscious create the angle. It's amazing what our minds will do if we just "get out of our own way".

Analyzing the "aiming systems" to much will cause some very negative things to happen mentally....I know better and still have to defend myself against too much thought.

Playing pool is easier than driving a car...much easier, but you do have to learn the proper fundamentals first, much like learning the break, accelerator, the shifting, the steering, parallel parking, etc. - then you should do it naturally and unconsciously as much as possible......aiming is about FEEL, for the pocket and the connection of the two balls, and how the object ball connects to the pocket.....this is what I teach. 'The Game is my Teacher'
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The driving analogy is excellent, CJ. I absolutely understand your point. My question is how long should it take to get to that level if you consistently get table time every day? Did you find yourself there right away or was it after years of playing?
 
the game changes our perspective

"How long should it take?" That, of course has a lot to do with the individual, who they have to learn from and how much they compete.

Training the subconscious is the trick, it's like a computer that thrives on imagination. When we learn how to "create shots," the game changes our perspective...from us playing the game, to the game playing us. This is the greatest level of performance.

'The Game is the Teacher'



Cardigan Kid said:
The driving analogy is excellent, CJ. I absolutely understand your point. My question is how long should it take to get to that level if you consistently get table time every day? Did you find yourself there right away or was it after years of playing?
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CJ Wiley said:
"How long should it take?" That, of course has a lot to do with the individual, who they have to learn from and how much they compete.

Training the subconscious is the trick, it's like a computer that thrives on imagination. When we learn how to "create shots," the game changes our perspective...from us playing the game, to the game playing us. This is the greatest level of performance.

'The Game is the Teacher'
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Would you say that even after someone has spent the time and "learned" how to do it, or programmed their subconscious mind. They can still have moments when they want badly to consciously do the task and in doing so they mess the whole process you have described up?

In fact I think many people viewing here might already have shot enough shots so that their sub knows what to do they just havent learned how to let it happen. Is this correct?
 
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(((Satori))) said:
Would you say that even after someone has spent the time and "learned" how to do it, or programmed their subconscious mind. They can still have moments when they want badly to consciously do the task and in doing so they mess the whole process you have described up?

In fact I think many people viewing here might already have shot enough shots so that their sub knows what to do they just havent learned how to let it happen. Is this correct?
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Your conscious mind messes up things when it doesn't realize all the steps required and leaves some out. Yes, it is better to play using your subconscious. That has been talked about many times on here.

It also is far better to train your subconscious using your conscious mind learning the steps involved and mastering each step. That way, when things do go wrong, you instantly know what went wrong, and can fix just the problem area.

Shooting with just your subconscious and your conscious not knowing just what is happening is why you see players have different "speeds" of play. When all is falling in place just right, they play great. But, when a problem arises, they have no clue how to fix it because they don't know what is wrong. So, they start trying different things, which usually messes things up big time. Not training the subconscious properly is why so many experience slumps. A problem arose, and they can't fix it. They more they try to, the more goes haywire.

The person who trains the subconscious by conscious thought will seldom experience any slumps, and will have a more consistent game overall. Not all the ups and downs so many have.
 
Neil said:
Your conscious mind messes up things when it doesn't realize all the steps required and leaves some out. Yes, it is better to play using your subconscious. That has been talked about many times on here.

It also is far better to train your subconscious using your conscious mind learning the steps involved and mastering each step. That way, when things do go wrong, you instantly know what went wrong, and can fix just the problem area.

Shooting with just your subconscious and your conscious not knowing just what is happening is why you see players have different "speeds" of play. When all is falling in place just right, they play great. But, when a problem arises, they have no clue how to fix it because they don't know what is wrong. So, they start trying different things, which usually messes things up big time. Not training the subconscious properly is why so many experience slumps. A problem arose, and they can't fix it. They more they try to, the more goes haywire.

The person who trains the subconscious by conscious thought will seldom experience any slumps, and will have a more consistent game overall. Not all the ups and downs so many have.
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One example of what I am talking about is a highly trained athlete who has reached a very high level yet tried to hard and choked in "the big moment."

This has nothing to do with how they trained and everything to do with conscious override.
 
(((Satori))) said:
One example of what I am talking about is a highly trained athlete who has reached a very high level yet tried to hard and choked in "the big moment."

This has nothing to do with how they trained and everything to do with conscious override.
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Choking is nothing more than allowing other thoughts into your mind. Fear being the primary one. Training teaches one to stop, regroup, and start over. Easily done in pool. In other sports where that is not an option, one must train themselves to think properly throughout the event.

Another take on it is, if he "tried to hard", he didn't "train properly".
 
Neil said:
Choking is nothing more than allowing other thoughts into your mind. Fear being the primary one. Training teaches one to stop, regroup, and start over. Easily done in pool. In other sports where that is not an option, one must train themselves to think properly throughout the event.

Another take on it is, if he "tried to hard", he didn't "train properly".
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The first part of your post was beautiful.


"Another take on it is, if he "tried to hard", he didn't "train properly"."

This part you still need to think about. Imagine the world class golfer who chokes on the final hole in a major. You think he choked because he didn't train properly?
 
(((Satori))) said:
The first part of your post was beautiful.


"Another take on it is, if he "tried to hard", he didn't "train properly"."

This part you still need to think about. Imagine the world class golfer who chokes on the final hole in a major. You think he choked because he didn't train properly?
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Yep. He didn't train his mind to stay in focus properly. He may have trained the other skill sets to the endurance of human limit, but he came up short in his mind control. Proof is in the simple fact that he choked.
 
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Neil said:
Yep. He didn't train his mind to stay in focus properly. He may have trained the other skill sets to the endurance of human limit, but he came up short in his mind control. Proof is in the simple fact that he choked.
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Somewhere I read that when Tiger Woods was learning, his dad used to wait until he was just about to pull the trigger and would deliberately drop the bag of clubs at that moment to shake him up, or make some other loud distraction. Over and over and over... until it no longer bothered him.

Tiger's dad sounds like a bit of a *****, but, oh, the results...
 
"we only recognize what we're familiar with in pocket billiard competition - CJ Wiley

To be "mentally tough" requires a process of developing calluses (as a physical analogy), and this is accomplished though repetition. To train to win professional events you have to expose yourself to that caliber of player.

Without the true experience of this level of competition it's naive to say one can perform under it (that level of pressure). This will be obvious in this year's Mosconi Cup....the players are terrific, however most of them have never experienced London's challenges.

Someone that doesn't understand my point will fall into a dilemma we call "THE FEINT FACTOR" and professional players will be able to handicap them much more than "logical" - if they stay in this type denial it will drastically reduce their chances of improving in a healthy manner and their game will soften (due to lack of "callus").

"we only recognize what we're familiar with in pocket billiard competition" - CJ Wiley


(((Satori))) said:
Would you say that even after someone has spent the time and "learned" how to do it, or programmed their subconscious mind. They can still have moments when they want badly to consciously do the task and in doing so they mess the whole process you have described up?

In fact I think many people viewing here might already have shot enough shots so that their sub knows what to do they just havent learned how to let it happen. Is this correct?
Click to expand...
 
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