aiming

[mikepage]

Sorry, I can only hold three physics nerds in my head at one time, and I was already full up. [...]

Is there no free room AT ALL in that briefcase?

 

[acedotcom]

Since I took the game up after 38 years of not playing, shotmaking has been my biggest weakness. For one thing, unlike when I was a kid, I have trouble seeing the point on the cb I want to deliver to the contact point on the ob. A friend gave me this suggestion and it has made a big difference in my playing. On cut shots to the right, while stroking the cb dead center, I line up the right side of the ferrule with the target point on the ob. On cuts to the left, I do the same - stroke the cb dead center, while lining up the left side of the ferrule with the ob. I scoffed at the notion initially, but damned if it doesn't work for me.

 

[PKM]

Do what?

pj
chgo

How to hit the CB off-center so that you're always aiming center to edge. I find it hard to believe that this could simplify the aiming process, but I'm honestly interested in hearing it. But I guess no one wants to try to explain it.

 

[JoeyA]

You mean if you hit a red-circle cueball hard enough it has the mass of a bar-table rock?

No, no, no. What he meant to say is that if you knock the bejesus out of a red-circle cueball or a bar-table rock, it will almost always stray from the intended path.
JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

Johnny's Aiming System

Here's Hal Houle commenting on Johnny Archer's web site:

"When players write to you, asking how to aim, your pat answer is to say that you get three feet back from the shot, then you shoot parallel lines. That is all hogwash. That is not how you aim. Why don't you level with these recreational players? You use the aiming system whereby you aim the center of the cue ball at the edge of the object ball for any and all shots. You know exactly what I am talking about. We both know about placing the cue tip either left or right of cue ball center, and you know why we do that. Get honest for a change. These recreational players are no threat. Tell them the truth. - Hal Houle

I really don't know why you keep writing about my aiming system. Everybody that is listening, IT IS MY AIMING SYSTEM. I hope this would relieve some pressure that you have. Thanks, Johnny" (emphasis added)

So that's the secret! Now someone take him up further on explaining to the recreational players how and why to do this.

I think you may have left out some CRITICAL information about Johnny's response. I THINK Johnny previously had explained his actual aiming system and it was not what is written above. Hal was contesting Johnny's description of JA's aiming system.


JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

There is only one way to aim playing pool and that is the ghost ball method. The question is, do you have a system to shoot the cueball through the ghostball position using whatever english is needed on that shot. It should imo be the same for all shots your are likely to try and play.

Curve must be minimized if aim is to be dependable. This usually means shots have a minimum or a maximum speed that they can be played consistently for the english used. If you don't stay on the correct sides of those speeds you will not see consistent results from any aim point.

unknownpro

I'm starting to believe that you MIGHT be able to play a little, whoever you are.
JoeyA

 

[pdcue]

By the way, I never said that other system was better than yours, Joe, I was just letting people know that a single aim system exists.

A happy JoeT student,
Dave

Maybe this is all just semantics.

Aiming is defined as the act of pointing something<in this case a cue stick>
at something else, like the bullseye on a target.

Do you actually align your cue on every shot so the center of the CB
would hit the edge of the OB?
If you did - the only shot you could ever pocket would be the half-ball hit.

I'm guessing that at some point you change the oreintation of the cue.

All of which means you are not, in fact using a 'single aim' system.

Dale<more intelligent than the average bear>

 

[emccune]

Because you didn't tell your kid that all bikes have four wheels; you told him that training wheels were to help him learn to ride with two wheels. He didn't have to unlearn leaning the wrong way on turns after you took the training wheels off because he knew the whole point of using them was to help him learn not to.

pj
chgo

OK. Good point. Nothing wrong with learning transitional training aids, I guess you are saying, so long as it is explained that they are transistional and will be eliminated eventually. I think I can agree with that.

Ed

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Me:
Because you didn't tell your kid that all bikes have four wheels; you told him that training wheels were to help him learn to ride with two wheels. He didn't have to unlearn leaning the wrong way on turns after you took the training wheels off because he knew the whole point of using them was to help him learn not to.

Ed:
OK. Good point. Nothing wrong with learning transitional training aids, I guess you are saying, so long as it is explained that they are transistional and will be eliminated eventually. I think I can agree with that.

However, I think there are reasonable exceptions to this:

1. Some players are more interested in (or simply more capable of) a "quick fix" system that gets them to point B right away because they're not going to put in the time (or don't have the ability) to get to point C and beyond.

2. Some players are capable of getting to point C and beyond without ever unlearning the aiming system, they naturally "evolve" beyond the system (becoming better "by feel" aimers), with or without knowing it.

pj
chgo

 

[emccune]

However, I think there are reasonable exceptions to this:

1. Some players are more interested in (or simply more capable of) a "quick fix" system that gets them to point B right away because they're not going to put in the time (or don't have the ability) to get to point C and beyond.

2. Some players are capable of getting to point C and beyond without ever unlearning the aiming system, they naturally "evolve" beyond the system (becoming better "by feel" aimers), with or without knowing it.

pj
chgo

On point 2, I think that the value of an iaming system as training wheels is that it gives you reference points to begin building your shot library. I don't think most players have to deliberately remove the mental training wheels. I think it is normally as you mention. They gradually evolve past the need without conscious thought. I know that's how it worked for me.

Under exteme stress, if I just lose the ability to see the shot, I might revert to system and still manage to make the shot and I think this is another side benefit to knowing several systems or methods or tricks. Fallback if you will.

Those who don't evolve past the systems are the ones in your point 1. They aren't really looking to evolve their skills at all but I also see the opposite. Decent, yet not really good players who could benefit from a system but who refuse out of the believe that they already know how to aim and there is nothing anyone can teach them.

Ed

 

[pdcue]

On point 2, I think that the value of an iaming system as training wheels is that it gives you reference points to begin building your shot library. I don't think most players have to deliberately remove the mental training wheels. I think it is normally as you mention. They gradually evolve past the need without conscious thought. I know that's how it worked for me.

Under exteme stress, if I just lose the ability to see the shot, I might revert to system and still manage to make the shot and I think this is another side benefit to knowing several systems or methods or tricks. Fallback if you will.

Those who don't evolve past the systems are the ones in your point 1. They aren't really looking to evolve their skills at all but I also see the opposite. Decent, yet not really good players who could benefit from a system but who refuse out of the believe that they already know how to aim and there is nothing anyone can teach them.

Ed

IMHO - one of the fallacies of aiming systems is illustrated by the idea of a
'shot library'. If you learn how to aim, there is no need for learning
shots one-at-a-time, or even by groups.

The other major flaw, it seems to me, is the wide spread beleif that
using the system somehow makes you better at pocketing balls.

Shots vary widely in difficulty - knowing how or where to hit it
is certainly no guarentee you can hit it there every time.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

IMHO - one of the fallacies of aiming systems is illustrated by the idea of a
'shot library'. If you learn how to aim, there is no need for learning
shots one-at-a-time, or even by groups.

The other major flaw, it seems to me, is the wide spread beleif that
using the system somehow makes you better at pocketing balls.

Shots vary widely in difficulty - knowing how or where to hit it
is certainly no guarentee you can hit it there every time.

I bet you have a "shot library" that you use on every shot, especially if you don't use a system. It's how the inescapable "feel" part of aiming every shot is done (by comparing what you're seeing with your memory of making similar shots before).

pj
chgo

 

[unknownpro]

IMHO - one of the fallacies of aiming systems is illustrated by the idea of a
'shot library'. If you learn how to aim, there is no need for learning
shots one-at-a-time, or even by groups.

The other major flaw, it seems to me, is the wide spread beleif that
using the system somehow makes you better at pocketing balls.

Shots vary widely in difficulty - knowing how or where to hit it
is certainly no guarentee you can hit it there every time.

I don't use shot libraries but my aiming system is just to know where to shoot my tip in relation to the ghost ball using english. There is no reason you can't hit the same spot over and over with your tip. My system does make me better at pocketing balls because the shot is no longer centered on the object ball. The shot is limited to the action of the cuestick. The balls will react accordingly. If you choose your english wisely and hit within the correct speed range the balls should go in the directions you wanted.

By disassociating the stick from the cueball and the object ball you are 2 steps removed from trying to steer the object ball in the right direction during your stroke, and one step removed from trying to steer the cueball toward the contact point - both of which are very bad.

unknownpro

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I don't use shot libraries but my aiming system is just to know where to shoot my tip in relation to the ghost ball using english.

I guess great minds think alike because I do the same thing. It's simple, direct and effective, but it doesn't eliminate estimating, which is a big part of every shot, and I think that's probably where the "shot library" comes in. I bet the estimating is done by comparing what we're looking at with our accumulated memories of similar successful shots - our "shot library".

pj
chgo

 

[skins]

the fact is that most great players DO NOT aim so to speak. their bodies align with the shots naturally over years of play. that's not to say that the "ghost" method or any other method doesn't contribute to ones betterment or give them a "guide" to follow, it just means that the only way to become the best is to play. if it's in your "genes" to become great you will and if not you'll have too "settle" with what your ability will allow. imo the ghost ball method as well as others are a great start to learn but they will be used more sparingly as you get more proficient at the game.

 

[JoeyInCali]

the fact is that most great players DO NOT aim so to speak. their bodies align with the shots naturally over years of play. that's not to say that the "ghost" method or any other method doesn't contribute to ones betterment or give them a "guide" to follow, it just means that the only way to become the best is to play. if it's in your "genes" to become great you will and if not you'll have too "settle" with what your ability will allow. imo the ghost ball method as well as others are a great start to learn but they will be used more sparingly as you get more proficient at the game.

I don't think the ghost ball method is really an aiming "system".
I think it's more of a visualization method.
The great thing about the ghost ball method is, it simplifies shots.
Just imagine you are shooting straight at the gb, and if you place the cueball there everytime, you are going to pocket better imo.
One ex pro here who played with Mosconi in his exhibitions ( he has a scrapbook to prove it ) flat out said, they all used the gb method.
He's a senior and still runs 200's. I'm not arguing with him.

 

[skins]

I don't think the ghost ball method is really an aiming "system".
I think it's more of a visualization method.
The great thing about the ghost ball method is, it simplifies shots.
Just imagine you are shooting straight at the gb, and if you place the cueball there everytime, you are going to pocket better imo.
One ex pro here who played with Mosconi in his exhibitions ( he has a scrapbook to prove it ) flat out said, they all used the gb method.
He's a senior and still runs 200's. I'm not arguing with him.

agreed but my point was that if your natural instincts don't automatically adhere to known/taught/learned methods, your progress will be diminished dramatically. the end result of a players success is how well they've "adhered" and "listened" to the techniques and how well their body has "attached" itself to them.

 

[unknownpro]

the fact is that most great players DO NOT aim so to speak. their bodies align with the shots naturally over years of play. that's not to say that the "ghost" method or any other method doesn't contribute to ones betterment or give them a "guide" to follow, it just means that the only way to become the best is to play. if it's in your "genes" to become great you will and if not you'll have too "settle" with what your ability will allow. imo the ghost ball method as well as others are a great start to learn but they will be used more sparingly as you get more proficient at the game.

I'm sure there's a lot of truth in this. The reason being that the ghost ball is useful with no english, but most people don't use it with english to give them a repeatable pin point aim. As they progress as players from using little english to using a lot they move away from the ghost ball. They never sort through the deflection and curve enough to be able to decide exactly where they should aim, so they use feel. I beat many champions that way. Then I beat many more using what I do now, using maximum deflection on every englished shot. If you are trying not to deflect the cueball you are poking it, throwing a knuckle ball and waiting for it to curve. If you stroke it you should move it out of the way.

unknownpro

 

[skins]

....... Then I beat many more using what I do now, using maximum deflection on every englished shot........
unknownpro

i shoot this way as well. i use some sort of english on almost every shot and allow for the maximum deflection determined by each specific shot. when i first started playing pool i was taught that you're almost never going to hit the dead center of a cue ball. some sort of spin WILL be put on the cue ball so learn the characteristics of both your cue and stroke and diminish the margin for error by learning how to play with english. it's worked for me.....

skins ------------ has beaten enough using this technique as well...

 

[pdcue]

I bet you have a "shot library" that you use on every shot, especially if you don't use a system. It's how the inescapable "feel" part of aiming every shot is done (by comparing what you're seeing with your memory of making similar shots before).

pj
chgo

I don't think so.

Again, this may all be dueling semantics. At this point, my aiming
is so internalized I never base a shot on previous references.

This may have something to do with the fact that I never think about
what I want to accomplish when I am down on the shot. That is always
done before I bend into my stance.

Once I am down on the ball, I see<visualize> exactly where I need to hit
the OB. All I think about is hitting that spot.

If anyone cares, my shotmaking improved about a zillion % using
this method.

Dale