Alignment v Stroking

[Jaden]

I play on a 3 7/8" pocket table.

the table I've been practicing on is 3 7/8" non shimmed. They are cut to this. Now this is at the opening of the pocket not where the ball drops. Of course it's not much tighter where the ball drops because something this tihgt has to be cut almost square, but that's INSANELY tight. If you're off at all from some angles the balls just won't drop....

With this in mind, to run out on these tables everything has to be dead accurate..... stroke, aim, alignment....everything.....

One thing to mention though....For many things, playing on a tight table is not good for your game just like playing on a loose table is not good for your game. For ensuring proper alignment or stroke playing on a tight table is good, but for say working on strategy or shape, it is not good.

It's not good to play on too loose of a table either. You get used to playing the pockets and can't play on the tighter tables...

If I were to have my choice I would say that the best all around tightness to practice on is 4.5". this gives you enough tightness to know you can't slight the pockets but not so much that it deteriorates your strategy and prevents you from doing things you would otherwise be able to do.

Sorry to hijack the thread, just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[Chris]

Thanks Colin. Those links, especially the first one, were helpful.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I'm sorry if it seemed like I was hijacking your thread an turning it into an aiming system thread. I really wasn't. What you're bringing up here 'alignment being off' is so true. It is the reason why I have been so non-negotiable about these approximation aiming systems. Your aiming system is what your alignment is based on. If you're not using one that at least has the potential to be correct in every situation, then your alignment is going to be wrong at least some of the time. But your alignment should never be wrong on purpose, which it would be if you thought 1/4 of a ball was right when it actually should have been 5/16 of a ball. God help them if the run across a triple shimmed table.
alignment = aiming, sort of, I think, maybe, well I guess not. But certainly very dependent.

Hi JR,
I didn't mean to sound so blunt. I think what you are saying is very closely related and you are not hijacking the thread in my opinion.

It was moreso an excuse for me to delay a detailed discussion on aiming, because I tend to rant on and on ...and I would likely hijack my own thread if I get started here.

We will definitely have a chance to go more deeply into aiming systems in other threads...I see mnShooter just started one

Cheers,
Colin

 

[TheConArtist]

way to go Colin (The Calc) nyce thread love it.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Alignment v Stroking - Part 1

I think that the biggest error that most players make when trying to become more accurate players is when they presume that their missed shots are caused by poor Stroke Mechanics, while they overlook the most common and significant cause which is poor Initial Alignment.

By Initial Alignment, I basically mean the positioning of the bridge point.

If you do not get your bridge to a point + or - a millimeter or less from the required line, then you are going to have to play an off center or sweeping stroke to pocket the OB as hoped.

In fact, it is common for players to subconsciously make this stroke adjustment when they feel that the shot is not going on line. This creates tension in their swing...their brain is fighting their heart is one way to describe it. So after they miss, they recall the sense of tension in the stroke, so confusedly start practicing their stroke, blaming their wrist action or some other aspect of stroke mechanics which is usually just a symptom of their poor Initial Alignment.

So to establish some proof for my contention, I set up a test as diagrammed below.

A mechanical bridge was wedged into position as shown. A piece of chalk sat under the rail as a firm point to keep the bridge from moving. CB and OB were put into positions that lined up for pocketing to the corner. Once established, I tapped the balls into place marked by a cross on the cloth. Hence I could replace the balls to almost identical positions each shot.

Using the bridge, fixed in place, my stroking did not feel very stable, yet I was able to pocket this shot 20 times in a row with very little variation in the pocketing accuracy. Not a single time did the OB hit the jaw.

Now I could make this shot miss by striking deliberately with english, but the point is, that it's not hard to hit the CB center ball accurately enough to provide satisfactory accuracy for most shots on the table.

The hard part is getting the bridge hand in perfect position for the shot...that is, to align perfectly.

Fantastic post, Colin. I agree that the main cause of most missed shots is poor alignment. Aiming in pool is something that can be learned fairly easily, but actually aligning to where you are aiming is very hard to do. Aligning to the shot properly is the MOST effective way to pot balls consistently. Some people have struggled to do this their whole lives, so they forgoe that idea entirely and learn how to pot with crooked strokes, and as a result they never become accurate shotmakers and probably reach a wall in their playing ability. Feel is such a huge part of the game, and when you can't align to what you are aiming at, you can't feel the shot, because you want the cueball to go to a certain spot, but you are off by a couple of millimeters, and it just doesn't feel right. You start to mistrust your aim, or blame it on your eyes or your stroke. I think alignment should be the main focus of any player before they try to reach a higher level in the game, that's JMO.

 

[Cornerman]

Completely off topic pronunciation

However the merry marry and Mary thing is true. They are all pronounced the same around here.

Not true for the entire country. A lot of areas distinctly pronounce the "e" in merry as a short e, and the "a" in Mary as most would pronounce Gary (short a, as in cat). The names Sherry vs. Shari is another example of this. A lot of areas pronounce them the same, while other areas pronounce them differently.


Fred

 

[chefjeff]

Have you been watching me, Colin?!? Domestic spying??

I've been on a stance trip lately, trying to be sure my alignment is actually repeatable and repeated regularly. Your fine post indicates to me that I'm on the right track.

I heard Allison F. drew an outline around her feet when she had found the ideal stance, so she could replicate it at will. So, I've been working on the same thing. I've got my stance positioned where I am aligned well, AND where my knees or back don't ache after a long session. I figure this is the best position for me and will allow me to place my bridge properly and get the most consistency in stroking.

I didn't make an outline on the floor (that floor cost me plenty!) but I did make a pencil mark about 2" long where the back of my heel sits and at the angle my foot is pointing. I did it with post-it-notes first and took a couple of weeks to get it close, then used the pencil to fine tune it. I first set up a shot with the CB on the center spot and the OB halfway to the side. This is an "average" shot and stance. I marked the table with dots and dents so I could repeat the shot. I place the balls and then set up to shoot without looking at the marks on the floor, yet. I either follow the CB into the side or draw it into the near side so I know I've stroked straight. I then look at my feet to see if I was aligned to the marks. Usually, if I miss the CB control, I am off the marks somewhat. I repeat this until I can get into stance and alignment without looking. Then I start my practice routines. If I start missing, I go back and re-do my stance/algnment check to get back in position.

This takes time and patience to do this, but if it's good enough for Allison, it's good enough for ol' Jeff.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Andrew Manning]

btw: What is it with the 'then' and 'than' usage of Americans? Do you guys use it back to front? Or is it pronounced the same over there, like I heard some Americans pronounce merry, marry and mary all the same way, while we have 3 clearly different vowel sounds for these words.

With "then" and "than", most Americans pronounce them the same when speaking quickly, although at least some of us pronounce them differently when emphasizing the word or speaking more slowly. Like your and you're, many people mix them up when posting on the internet or emailing because they say them the same, and so when they're not paying close attention to their grammar, they type them interchangeably.

But under all circumstances, I pronounce mary, merry, and marry all the same. They rhyme with very and bury and berry. However, some people do make a distinction, particularly some of the Northern accents like New York, Pennsylvania, or Northern midwest like Wisconsin, the Dakotas, Minnesota, etc. Allen Hopkins pronounces "very" as "vurry".

To keep this on topic, though, I think it's a very good point about some people steering their stroke in order to compensate for misalignment. I think a good way to train yourself not to do this is to use the Allen Hopkins-style (to mention him a second time in this post) two-inch backswing as a practice drill. You can't steer your stroke much in two inches. Practice running balls by aligning, setting your bridge hand solid, and taking almost no backswing on your stroke. I think if you can run balls doing that, you're aligning your cue correctly.

-Andrew

 

[Colin Colenso]

Not true for the entire country. A lot of areas distinctly pronounce the "e" in merry as a short e, and the "a" in Mary as most would pronounce Gary (short a, as in cat). The names Sherry vs. Shari is another example of this. A lot of areas pronounce them the same, while other areas pronounce them differently.


Fred

I pronounce the a in Mary like the a in air, not like the a in cat.
The a in Marry, I pronounce like the a in Cat.
The e in Merry like the e in Very or Get.

 

[jsp]

Calc...great thread! I also just recently discovered that I had serious problems in my alignment, and all the while I thought I had a crooked stroke (I still may have a crooked stroke, but i've learned it's less severe than crooked alignment).

I pronounce the a in Mary like the a in air, not like the a in cat.
The a in Marry, I pronounce like the a in Cat.
The e in Merry like the e in Very or Get.

You mean, you don't pronouce "aunt" the same way you pronounce "ant". (I'm originally from the midwest )

This has been a great thread, but you just signed its death warrant.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Calc...great thread! I also just recently discovered that I had serious problems in my alignment, and all the while I thought I had a crooked stroke (I still may have a crooked stroke, but i've learned it's less severe than crooked alignment).


You mean, you don't pronouce "aunt" the same way you pronounce "ant". (I'm originally from the midwest )

This has been a great thread, but you just signed its death warrant.

I, as most Australians and English pronounce Aunt the same as Aren't, but we say Aunty.

Anyway, to get back on topic......

If alignment is as important as my test suggests, and, that when well aligned, there is no need to look at the OB during the stroke....then...

Shouldn't we endevour to align as accurately as possible and strike the CB in the correct place after having done so?

Doesn't looking at the OB during the stroke invite adjustments and prevent us from determining if our initial alignment was correct?

My thinking is that players could improve their initial alignment by stroking while observing the CB...or at least not observing the OB once they have decided their bridge placement according to the shot.

After they stroke, they should look up to observe the results. And hence by trial and error, better estimate their initial alignment problems.

 

[Cornerman]

To keep this on topic, though, I think it's a very good point about some people steering their stroke in order to compensate for misalignment. I think a good way to train yourself not to do this is to use the Allen Hopkins-style (to mention him a second time in this post) two-inch backswing as a practice drill. You can't steer your stroke much in two inches.

But... Allen Hopkins has the worst steering follow through ever in the history of pooldom.



Fred