All you toi guys how do you aim???
- Thread starter bbb
- Start date
Larry,
The thing about TOI is that you simply align the center of the CB to either the center or edge of the OB.
Once that is done, you make a 'parallel' shift to the inside & use the cue ball squirt/defection to arrive at the OB to cut the ball.
The thing is that TOI is a dynamic method in that one gets more or less squirt by the tip placement & using a speed of shot that does not let swerve come into play. That is, unless one wants it to come into play. To me TOI sort of takes aiming out of the equation.
Since I started using LD shafts, I've added an alignment line in the middle at the 1/4 ball location.
So all one needs to do is recognize which line is too full of a hit & then align to that one & get more angle with the squirt/deflection from the inside tip hit.
Personally I find it hard to see one using TOI along with any of the pivot aiming systems.
I'd say it could go well with the fractional methods but one would still need to align for the full hit side of the pocket & then just add a bit more cut with an ever so slight TOI.
To me, TOI is a dynamic feel method based on the most simple of alignments. I could go into more of my thoughts as to why I think it works so well but I don't think AZB is ready for that & I'm sure that I'm not ready to defend my thoughts.
Like you I am interested to hear what others have to say.
Best 2 Ya,
Rick
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I thought CJ aims like he is pocketing to the inside of the pocket if he was using a centerball hit and then used a touch of inside to throw the ob to center pocket or outside of the pocket if more than a touch was accidentally used.
I can't speak for CJ but I think that was basically the 3 part pocket explanation.
I think he may have sort of put the cart before the horse so to speak so as to not take one TOO far out of their comfort zone too quickly.
Then once the squirt to add cut seed was planted it could grow into just the CTC & CTE alignments.
Since I went to LD shafts I added the center to 1/4 ball line.
Like CJ has said, everyone will make TOI their own in some way. It's a very dynamic method with few limitations.
I've used the concept to shoot straight in shots, but I guess technically it would be TOO as the tip placement is on the outside of the artificial angle that I 'created'.
Like someone else said in another thread, TOI can make the game fun to play. It's sort of like using english but it has more benefits.
Before CJ introduced TOI here on AZB, I had made a statement regarding playing with center ball only. I basically said that if had to play with just center ball, I'd probably quit playing the game.
Sorry for the long winded rant to what should have been a short answer.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
Rick,
Has anyone, to your knowledge, EVER said the game should or could ONLY be played with center cue ball?
Stan Shuffett
Mr. Shuffett,
For what are you fishing?
You wanted me out of the CTE discussions to the point of insulting me in a number of ways & now you come here & ask me a question while you will not answer my questions regarding CTE in any straight forward manner.
Why should I answer any question that you ask of me?
I've made my conclusions regarding CTE & have come to the determination that there can be no civil logical discussions regarding CTE here on AZB due to the fanaticism regarding CTE.
However, I will answer your question.
I made my statement of probably quitting the game if I had to play with just center ball in the midst of a discussion here on AZB more than 2 years ago where some here were down on the use of english & to them it was simply too difficult to use with any consistent accuracy or success.
So...at that time, basically yes... a small group was saying the game should only be played along the vertical axis.
Sir, I understand that outside english can be used along with the TOI method just as I understand that english can be used with your CTE/Pro1.
So...did you hook something or would you like to cast again.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
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Rick, Can you show me where anyone or any group said that the game SHOULD be played ONLY with center cue ball? I do not think you can. You are the troller with your comment about the CCB only crap. I am not going to let your twist of the truth slide by when you know darn good and well you were giving me a back hand slap.
Stan Shuffett
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You are completely mistaken. My comment in this thread had nothing to do with you nor CTE & neither crossed my mind.
To be blunt Sir, you've lost it & have become paranoid.
This thread was about TOI, which is NOT hitting the center of the ball. My comments were related to that.
Are you that arrogant that you think you are the only one that advocates a center ball approach. If so, you've lost reality in that regard too.
I'll start including you too in my prayers.
You're just running your mouth! Your comment had everything to do with CTE. You got trapped up and your only way out iwas to lie. You had better take of yiurself and not be worrying about my integrity.
Stan Shuffett
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There seems to be more omniscient individuals here on AZB than Carter has oats.
I've also been using TOI after years of spinning balls in. It's a real eye opener to say the least. Good luck with your game.
This is what a player will strive for, once they develop their feel from the TOI training. You can also pivot to the center from the TOI point, or past center to apply outside english.
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I like it.
I must say, I never really gave it a shot because either I did not understand what you were saying or perhaps I took you too literally and had this picture in my mind of trying to navigate a table at one speed with inside only on EVERY shot. But last night I read some more, watched the video again, and took it to the table for a lengthy session.
I must say again I like it. The focused target (inside corner of pocket) along with calibrating the tip position (how far you go inside) not only presents your subconscious with a clear image (or outcome goal) but it also teaches one the basics on adjusting for deflection and curve (less inside for harder strokes or longer shots and vice versa)
I also believe one could use your principles for learning outside english too (starting witwith a thinner hit, aiming for the outside of the pocket, and calibrating the outside english from there) if they dont feel comfortable pivoting, as I don't. Or perhaps I'm complicating things?!
I have always enjoyed having you here but I wasn't really sure about your method because of a lack of understanding I think, but I am glad you stuck it out here. Thanks CJ.
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when using outside english you should also aim at the inside of the pocket too
You're welcome, I know how difficult it is to be open to the TOI technique, it goes against most conventional teaching. However, it has carried me through thousands of gambling and tournament matches, many times on the winning side.
One more thing, when using outside english you should also aim at the inside of the pocket. The pocket zone created using spin is the same one as using TOI. To over-cut the ball slightly you use more spin than deflection, and the outcome is still the same.
You're welcome, I know how difficult it is to be open to the TOI technique, it goes against most conventional teaching. However, it has carried me through thousands of gambling and tournament matches, many times on the winning side.
One more thing, when using outside english you should also aim at the inside of the pocket. The pocket zone created using spin is the same one as using TOI. To over-cut the ball slightly you use more spin than deflection, and the outcome is still the same.
NOOOOOOO! Stop! If the guys I'm playing start reading this stuff, I'll have to get a job! :grin-square:
This is a huge problem for a lot of people. They try and draw back down the table with outside spin and rattle it every time. Usually on the 7 or 8 ball.
Aiming to the inside jaws is a big tip. Now stop it! :wink: And people say you don't teach anything on these forums...
Best,
Mike
Hi Mike,
Maybe that's why some of us can understand while others can't.
I was going to say this in another thread but decided not to do so.
Maybe one has to have had to play with 'feel' at one time or another to 'understand' TOI.
Now, how about that statement.
One has to 'know' how to 'feel' to 'understand'.
Best 2 Ya & All,
Rick
Don't worry, this will go unnoticed. It is funny though, isn't it? :groucho:
Rick,
I assume your parallel shift is less for the same angle when the CB to OB distance is greater?
Colin
My aiming is to see the path of the CB, as aligned and imagine if that path hits the OB into the pocket or thick or thin of it. If thick or thin, adjust as needed.
Have you ever been behind or in front of a ball traveling toward another ball and just been able to tell where that hit ball would be sent to? The mind perceives it, without thinking about ghost balls, fractions, edges etc. I think we just sense the geometry intuitively, strengthened by many observations.
The tricky part, is actually aligning to the path we perceive to be that required to pocket the ball, and/or perceiving the path from a distance.
Have you ever been behind or in front of a ball traveling toward another ball and just been able to tell where that hit ball would be sent to? The mind perceives it, without thinking about ghost balls, fractions, edges etc. I think we just sense the geometry intuitively, strengthened by many observations.
The tricky part, is actually aligning to the path we perceive to be that required to pocket the ball, and/or perceiving the path from a distance.