Am I missing something?????????

I don't assume to know Predator's profit margins. Yes the numbers I spouted are completley fictional its to make a point

So, lets assume that a $1000 Predator cue costs $65 to make (IT DOES NOT) but for the sake of making a point let's say that it does cost $65 to make and get to the USA.

And let's say that someone buys that cue for $1000. Where does the $935 end up?

Well first of all about $500 goes to the RETAILER who sold the cue. (your saying retailers make 50% of the the products cost yea right lie to someone else)

Then that leaves $435. (wrong see edit above number has now changed)$15 goes to UPS for shipping the cue to the dealer. UPS uses that money to pay their drivers, loaders, sorters, and paper pushers.

$20 goes to Billiard Digest, Inside Pool, AZ Billiards, Pool and Billiards, and these companies use that money to pay their staff, suppliers, overhead etc....

$20 goes to whatever tournaments that Predator sponsors. Those tournament use the money to pay expenses, add money to the prize fund etc...

$50 goes to pay the employees who work at Predator in shipping, receiving, paper pushing, customer service etc....(your based in China remember so the employees are chinese money stays in china)

$10 goes to employment taxes for all the employees. (This money goes to chinese goverment your workers are chinese remember )

$10 goes to pay the rent. (again your based in china money goes to chinese landlord)

$5 goes to the sponsored players.

$5 goes to pay for ongoing research. (new equipment needed for testing built in china its cheaper remember)

$10 goes towards travel expenses. (chinese airlines gets that money)

$5 goes to the utilities.(I don't recall America power and light servicing china so again this money goes to china)

$5 to taxes.

$20 bucks to other miscellaneous expenses. (like chopsticks, bowls, paper pens etc. So I see you fly to the U.S. and get these miscellaneous items for your chinese business because your a good american or do you just walk up the road )


Total expenses $175

Cost of the cue: $65
Related Expenses $175
Total cost of the cue: $240
Revenue: $wrong
Net Profit: wrong Using your and my FICTIONAL example.

Money that goes to China - wrong (see edits)
Money that stays in AMERICA -wrong again (see edits)

I know how business works and I have knowledge and you can try and spin it anyway you want whatever you have to do to help you sleep at night.

bottom line it does hurt this country/you are exploiting the chinese.
 
Rak9up said:
I don't assume to know Predator's profit margins. Yes the numbers I spouted are completley fictional its to make a point

So, lets assume that a $1000 Predator cue costs $65 to make (IT DOES NOT) but for the sake of making a point let's say that it does cost $65 to make and get to the USA.

And let's say that someone buys that cue for $1000. Where does the $935 end up?

Well first of all about $500 goes to the RETAILER who sold the cue. (your saying retailers make 50% of the the products cost yea right lie to someone else)

Then that leaves $435. (wrong see edit above number has now changed)$15 goes to UPS for shipping the cue to the dealer. UPS uses that money to pay their drivers, loaders, sorters, and paper pushers.

$20 goes to Billiard Digest, Inside Pool, AZ Billiards, Pool and Billiards, and these companies use that money to pay their staff, suppliers, overhead etc....

$20 goes to whatever tournaments that Predator sponsors. Those tournament use the money to pay expenses, add money to the prize fund etc...

$50 goes to pay the employees who work at Predator in shipping, receiving, paper pushing, customer service etc....(your based in China remember so the employees are chinese money stays in china)

$10 goes to employment taxes for all the employees. (This money goes to chinese goverment your workers are chinese remember )

$10 goes to pay the rent. (again your based in china money goes to chinese landlord)

$5 goes to the sponsored players.

$5 goes to pay for ongoing research. (new equipment needed for testing built in china its cheaper remember)

$10 goes towards travel expenses. (chinese airlines gets that money)

$5 goes to the utilities.(I don't recall America power and light servicing china so again this money goes to china)

$5 to taxes.

$20 bucks to other miscellaneous expenses. (like chopsticks, bowls, paper pens etc. So I see you fly to the U.S. and get these miscellaneous items for your chinese business because your a good american or do you just walk up the road )


Total expenses $175

Cost of the cue: $65
Related Expenses $175
Total cost of the cue: $240
Revenue: $wrong
Net Profit: wrong Using your and my FICTIONAL example.

Money that goes to China - wrong (see edits)
Money that stays in AMERICA -wrong again (see edits)

I know how business works and I have knowledge and you can try and spin it anyway you want whatever you have to do to help you sleep at night.

bottom line it does hurt this country/you are exploiting the chinese.
Click to expand...

You are amazingly clueless. Sorry I can't go lower than standard 2cnd grade math to explain this to you.

Wow, it's a wonder that they even let you use a computer.

Well I guess I have to change my impression of you from willfully ignorant to hopelessly stupid.

I would recommend that you take a local college course in basic economics and business but I am afraid that you couldn't even qualify for the ones that don't even require anything besides a check and brain activity. You'd be disqualified on the lack of brain activity.

Here are a few websites to help you in the meantime:

Start here:
http://www.gcflearnfree.org/math/topic.aspx?id=25

Then go here:
http://www.businesstown.com/accounting/basic-terms.asp

Then if your brain hasn't short-circuited with all these tough concepts:
http://www.wannalearn.com/Business_and_Careers/Accounting/

And I know that most of these are now over your head and probably will be forever but you can try to absorb them anyway:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_business_topics

Good luck.
 
Rak9up said:

Well first of all about $500 goes to the RETAILER who sold the cue. (your saying retailers make 50% of the the products cost yea right lie to someone else)
Click to expand...


When I worked in a poolroom we made ~50% on all cues sold.

A cue with a MSRP of $400 cost us $200, granted online dealers will sell this exact same cue for slightly less than the MSRP due to the fact that they do not have the overhead of a brick and mortar retail business.

Steve
 
My 2 cents-

Why do I get the feeling that some feel like they are ENTITLED to certain things because they were born in this country? This country is supposed to be CAPITALIST and DOG EAT DOG- DARWINIAN- survival of the fittest.

If a CEO wants to move his company overseas to make more profit, that's HIS RIGHT- read the goddamn constitution. Who are you to whine and moan about how he's not allowed to because it led to loss of American jobs? I mean, are you somehow ENTITLED to his money in the form of wages simply because you share a nationality with him? If he doesn't want to hire you, he doesn't have to. That's called FREEDOM.

Here's a simple analogy-

I own a family business and pay my son and nephew $10/hour to work at the cash register. They get together to form a Union, and decide that they want a 50 inch plasma TV and that 10/hour isn't gonna cut it. They come up to me and demand a higher wage, benefits, and other stuff. I don't have alternative possible employees at the moment and I don't want them to go on strike because it would cost me more to shut down for a couple of weeks while looking for workers than to pay them a couple bucks more an hour, so I humor them. However, a couple days later, I find out that Fred and Joe down the road have been laid off and now need jobs. They're willing to work for $8/hour. Who the f@#$ are you to tell me I'm not allowed to replace my current workers with those two? So if I do hire them, I'm now a traitor to the family?

OR- maybe I just don't like my relatives and decide that my nephew's rate at $10/hour is costing me potential profit. I replace him with Kyle up the road who does the job for $6. It's my money, I decide who to hire. Get it? It's called FREEDOM.
 
JC
My 2 cents-returned

I don't feel we're entitled to anything I do think its our responsibility to give something back to this country.

Yes I do agree-If a CEO wants to move his company overseas to make more profit, that's HIS RIGHT....yes it is.. you are so right he can apply for citizenship of that country start his business your free to leave whenever you like.

But the constitution applies to U.S. citizens living on U.S. soil.
I don't see the word china anywhere in my constitution

Here's my simple analogy-

I own a family business in my home town. I shut down and move in your house and have your kids work for me for next to nothing I eat your food cause its alot cheaper. I can throw cans on the floor put my feet on the furniture. Your house rules don't apply to me cause I'm still tied to my hometown

And you can't understand the concept that business owners from my hometown that were effected by my leaving being upset or us being upset that your kids were exploited

Because I believe in freedom your right my only recourse is to whine and not buy those products.
Also let as many people know that still live here that they have a choice also.
If companies won't do the right thing because they should maybe they will if we use our buying power may force them to.

P.S. When do the first predators and JB cases with the big letters MADE IN CHINA clearly appear on the butt or plainly shown on the case.
 
Last edited:
jcommie said:
My 2 cents-

Why do I get the feeling that some feel like they are ENTITLED to certain things because they were born in this country? This country is supposed to be CAPITALIST and DOG EAT DOG- DARWINIAN- survival of the fittest.

If a CEO wants to move his company overseas to make more profit, that's HIS RIGHT- read the goddamn constitution. Who are you to whine and moan about how he's not allowed to because it led to loss of American jobs? I mean, are you somehow ENTITLED to his money in the form of wages simply because you share a nationality with him? If he doesn't want to hire you, he doesn't have to. That's called FREEDOM.

Here's a simple analogy-

I own a family business and pay my son and nephew $10/hour to work at the cash register. They get together to form a Union, and decide that they want a 50 inch plasma TV and that 10/hour isn't gonna cut it. They come up to me and demand a higher wage, benefits, and other stuff. I don't have alternative possible employees at the moment and I don't want them to go on strike because it would cost me more to shut down for a couple of weeks while looking for workers than to pay them a couple bucks more an hour, so I humor them. However, a couple days later, I find out that Fred and Joe down the road have been laid off and now need jobs. They're willing to work for $8/hour. Who the f@#$ are you to tell me I'm not allowed to replace my current workers with those two? So if I do hire them, I'm now a traitor to the family?

OR- maybe I just don't like my relatives and decide that my nephew's rate at $10/hour is costing me potential profit. I replace him with Kyle up the road who does the job for $6. It's my money, I decide who to hire. Get it? It's called FREEDOM.
Click to expand...
So if every company moved is manufacturing to china, where does that leave us middle class Americans? Its ok for a ceo to pay themselves 2-3 million a year, while the folks that do the REAL work get peanuts? Im not against trade at all, if a company wants to move its work to another country thats fine. But china is not trading with us. they are raping us. Our import/export ratio with china is over 6-1. That is not trade. If they were buying our products to level the playing field, we wouldn't even be talking about this now. We cant all be ceos or executives.
 
snipershot said:
So if every company moved is manufacturing to china, where does that leave us middle class Americans? Its ok for a ceo to pay themselves 2-3 million a year, while the folks that do the REAL work get peanuts? Im not against trade at all, if a company wants to move its work to another country thats fine. But china is not trading with us. they are raping us. Our import/export ratio with china is over 6-1. That is not trade. If they were buying our products to level the playing field, we wouldn't even be talking about this now. We cant all be ceos or executives.
Click to expand...

"China" IS buying your products but it's IMPOSSIBLE for them to buy products on a $1 in $1 out ratio. #1 the Chinese DO NOT consume like we do in their daily lives - NOT YET at least. And the averages Chinese person earns way less than you do which means they can buy way less goods made in a land where production prices are high.

The thing is that all the big companies are multi-nationals, which means that they are not American - they are global corporations. They set up shop where it's most convenient for them. Most small to medium sized businesses in the USA do all their business and production in the USA.

You know what though, THIS is probably the most thoughtful post you have written on the subject.

You're right, not everyone can be a CEO. And there is no doubt that CEO and executive pay is way out of line and top heavy in the USA. That is a separate issue. I agree with you on this one. (betcha thought I would never say that). I don't agree that the way to stop it is to regulate how much they can earn. I think that investors need to stand up and STOP the boards of directors at these big companies from allowing the top executives from plundering the coffers in the name of pay and perks.

The real problem as I see it is that most from CEOs to the worker on the factory floor in the USA games the system and tries to squeeze every cent they can out of the "company" in return for as little work as possible.

I once had a friend who worked for a beer company in Germany as a delivery driver. He complained all the time about how badly the workers were treated and how low he was paid for his hard work. He was the Union rep for the workers at this company.

I went with him many times on his route while we talked about Germany. On his route he would routinely go tend to personal business, he would steal a couple kegs a week and sell them privately. I debated with him many times about this and tried to explain it from the brewery's position.

I said they have 13 drivers and if each driver steals time and product from the company then at the end of the year the company has to account for that that lost time and product. I said maybe that translates into the company deciding they can only afford 12 drivers and shifting the workload to the remaining 12. Or maybe the company decides to fire all the drivers that they know are slacking and stealing and replace them with cheaper laborers who are hungry for a good job. I tried to explain to him that it was every driver's responsibility to look after the health of the company in order to preserve their job as well as everyone's job. All my arguments fell on deaf ears as he was "convinced" that the company was big and that they wouldn't miss the weekly 2 kegs and lost hours and that they "owed" him anyway.

Now, imprint this mindset on MILLIONS of workers in America and around the world and you can see what happens to the money that companies earn and why they have to slash jobs and cut costs. They bleed money through inefficiency, bureacracy, laziness, waste, and outright theft.

It's time that all of us looked within ourselves and ask if we are doing enough to keep the organism (organization) that feeds us alive.
 
JG-in-KY said:
I don't want to get into the Harley-Metric debate either, but would just like to make a few points. I honestly don't think the Honda that is bigger than the Harley is one third the price. I have rode street bikes for over 30 years and started on a metric. I respect all street bike owners no matter what they ride. I have owned 8 Harley's just because this is what I prefer. Not because I am a Veteran and am Patriotic. And I am too old for peer pressure. Yes in the past when AMF owned Harley Davidson they had many quality control issues but are very reliable and I think they have the best resale value of any big twin. I am not trying to argue the Metric vs Harley issue. My main point to this topic is that it isn't a USA vs China (Japan, Germany, etc.) issue anymore. I mean what product is made entirely in the USA anymore?:thumbup2:
Click to expand...

I FULLY agree that Harley holds its resale value, and for that reason could be considered a better investment.

I should have pointed out that I when I bought my VTX it was used. And compared to what I liked that was comparable in the HD it was actually about a third the cost. Now talking buying off the show room floor I would agree that I couldnt get a Honda for a third of a Harley.

Man I cant tell you how nice it is to have someone that can talk about this calmly ROFL.

What product is made entirely in the USA? Not THATS a hard question :wink:
 
Rak9up said:
JC
My 2 cents-returned

I don't feel we're entitled to anything I do think its our responsibility to give something back to this country. And by responsibility to give something back to this country means other people are entitled to our money? I don't have to hire American workers if I don't want to- that's freedom, and none of anyone's business but my own. Now, if my company were SUBSIDIZED by AMERICAN tax dollars, that's a different matter.

Yes I do agree-If a CEO wants to move his company overseas to make more profit, that's HIS RIGHT....yes it is.. you are so right he can apply for citizenship of that country start his business your free to leave whenever you like. Or he can keep his American citizenship and do the same, except he still PAYS TAXES to AMERICA. Those taxes are fulfilling his so called "responsibility to give back".

But the constitution applies to U.S. citizens living on U.S. soil.
I don't see the word china anywhere in my constitution
And so it applies to those CEOs. I wasn't talking about the freedom of Chinese workers- you were.
Here's my simple analogy-


I own a family business in my home town. I shut down and move in your house and have your kids work for me for next to nothing I eat your food cause its alot cheaper. I can throw cans on the floor put my feet on the furniture. Your house rules don't apply to me cause I'm still tied to my hometownI'd kick you out. You argue under the false conclusion that China doesn't have the power to kick companies out. The real analogy was that you do what you described above, but also paid me 10,000 a month in rent. I decide to put up with it. Believe it or not, China wants those companies to stay because it creates jobs and improves the economy over there.

And you can't understand the concept that business owners from my hometown that were effected by my leaving being upset or us being upset that your kids were exploited Kids don't need to get paid $10/hour when all they need is 2-3 bucks for some candy. That's all they want. Win-win. Also, no one is forcing them to do the job, they're willing to run errands for good old uncle Rak9 for a dollar here and there, even though an actual worker would demand 10 dollars or more. That's because their cost of living is lower.

Because I believe in freedom your right my only recourse is to whine and not buy those products.
Also let as many people know that still live here that they have a choice also. Sounds more like telling them that they have a choice when they already know they have a choice. By telling them to "buy American" you're pushing them to take YOUR choice.
If companies won't do the right thing because they should maybe they will if we use our buying power may force them to.

P.S. When do the first predators and JB cases with the big letters MADE IN CHINA clearly appear on the butt or plainly shown on the case.
Click to expand...

Here's my reply.
 
snipershot said:
So if every company moved is manufacturing to china, where does that leave us middle class Americans? Its ok for a ceo to pay themselves 2-3 million a year, while the folks that do the REAL work get peanuts? Im not against trade at all, if a company wants to move its work to another country thats fine. But china is not trading with us. they are raping us. Our import/export ratio with china is over 6-1. That is not trade. If they were buying our products to level the playing field, we wouldn't even be talking about this now. We cant all be ceos or executives.
Click to expand...

That's preposterous. It's not economically feasible for this to happen, and the CEOs aren't that stupid. That kind of move would lead to a massive bidding up of Chinese labor to the point where it would be uneconomical to actually make the move.

Also, YES it is OKAY for a CEO to pay themselves that much while the workers get peanuts. Don't like it? Quit. Nobody is forcing you to work for them. The CEO makes the decisions concerning the corporation and it is his freedom to distribute the profit as he sees fit. Now, if he takes too much the stockholders would riot and the company would collapse, so he doesn't do it. It's all about risk/reward, free market and incentives. That's called CAPITALISM.

Finally, you CANNOT RAPE THE WILLING. China is NOT FORCING their exports onto us. If America decided tomorrow it wanted to block all imports from China, they can. China is not threatening us with violence- it's not like they have a giant nuke poised to drop if we ever decide to stop trading.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PKM
And to bring this ALL THE BACK to the local level.

What about when you need something done on your house? Let's say you need it painted.

Do you hire the local kid to do it for a 10th of the price of the house painting company that employs five adults suporting families? Do you give the job to your pool hustler friend who will do it for a 3rd of the price? Do you run down to Home Depot and hire you some of the friendly available brown labor that will do it for half of what the painting company will do the job for? Or do you call all the painting companies in the phone book and let them come out and estimate and bid on your painting job?

Have you ever paid someone "under the table" for work that a professional can do? Have you ever paid a professional "under the table" so you can avoid the sales tax and he/she can avoid the income tax?

How about that new laptop you want to buy? Do you run down to the store and happily plunk down full retail for the phone or do you shop around on the internet to see if you can get it cheaper? You know that when you buy it from the "internet" at a lower cost that you are depriving the local store of that revenue and profit so that they can keep local people working right?

It's greed when business people seek to minimize their cost and maximize their benefit but just thrifty when you do the same thing in your personal life.

Maybe the local painting company will charge you $1000 to paint you house but you really want to go on that trip and it costs $700. So you give the job to the person who pays no taxes for $300 and you take the savings (profit) and ENRICH yourself with a vacation instead.

You don't want anyone to tell you that you aren't ALLOWED to choose who paints your house and how much to pay them. So why do you want to imprint this onto others?
 
  • Like
Reactions: PKM
jcommie said:
that's preposterous. It's not economically feasible for this to happen, and the ceos aren't that stupid. That kind of move would lead to a massive bidding up of chinese labor to the point where it would be uneconomical to actually make the move.

Also, yes it is okay for a ceo to pay themselves that much while the workers get peanuts. Don't like it? Quit. Nobody is forcing you to work for them. The ceo makes the decisions concerning the corporation and it is his freedom to distribute the profit as he sees fit. Now, if he takes too much the stockholders would riot and the company would collapse, so he doesn't do it. It's all about risk/reward, free market and incentives. That's called capitalism.

Finally, you cannot rape the willing. China is not forcing their exports onto us. If america decided tomorrow it wanted to block all imports from china, they can. China is not threatening us with violence- it's not like they have a giant nuke poised to drop if we ever decide to stop trading.
Click to expand...

tap tap - clap clap - massive ****ing applause - cheers!!!! Best post of the entire thread.
 
im done. some guys dont het it, they only care about making sure they get paid no matter what. so stay here and pat yourselves on the back and talk about how good china is, and how bad the USA is. go ahead, im not reading this trash anymore, it aint worth my time. Its like arguing with my son, he thinks he knows it all too, and seems incapable of admitting when he is wrong, just like some idiots on here. go ahead, have a drink, sit back, laugh at the bad situation we AMERICANS are in, and turn your nose up, cuz you are soooooo much better than the rest of us. no replies needed, cuz I ant reading this sh*t no more!
 
snipershot said:
im done. some guys dont het it, they only care about making sure they get paid no matter what. so stay here and pat yourselves on the back and talk about how good china is, and how bad the USA is. go ahead, im not reading this trash anymore, it aint worth my time. Its like arguing with my son, he thinks he knows it all too, and seems incapable of admitting when he is wrong, just like some idiots on here. go ahead, have a drink, sit back, laugh at the bad situation we AMERICANS are in, and turn your nose up, cuz you are soooooo much better than the rest of us. no replies needed, cuz I ant reading this sh*t no more!
Click to expand...

Can I bet down that Snipershot posts here one more time?

Once upon a time it was considered trash to say that the world is round. Perhaps someday you will see that it is.
 
hi

snipershot said:
I have been looking at cues lately, on the web, catalogs, and at the pool hall. Im not looking to buy one in particular, I just like to window shop. Anyhow, my question is, how in the hell does Predator move all its production to China, and still charge 1000 bucks for a cue??? Dont tell me the material costs are so high, and thats the reason. I believe we consumers are stupid, yup, we are plain dumb. They take 10 dollars worth of wood and glue, make a fancy, and very effective I might add, shaft and charge us 200+, and we line up to buy it, lol. Yea, I know Im gonna get some flack about this post, but dammit it dont make sense. Its kinda like kissing your cousin, sure it feels good, but it just aint right! And while I'm on my rant, why is it that I can have a custom made, one of a kind shaft made for my cue for about half the cost of a China made shaft? Why do these 200+ dollar chinese super duper shafts seem to have a real warpage problem? You would think that after paying that much money for a shaft that is supposed to be so good, it could at least stay straight! Ok, Im done, bring on the hate, and I will quietly accept it.......
Click to expand...

obcues are all american .ive had over 100 in my possesion over last year none crooked. try em youll love em i do.
 
john schmidt said:
obcues are all american .ive had over 100 in my possesion over last year none crooked. try em youll love em i do.
Click to expand...

See there Mr. Snipershot. Thank Predator for CREATING a brand new market segment for laminated shafts. Probably if Predator hadn't spent all that money and time and effort making laminated shafts popular then OB Cues might not even exist right now. But because Predator does what they do and because their prices are kept high it allows other companies like OB Cues and Tiger Products to come into the market. Those are some domestic brands you can grab onto.

I use the Tiger X-Ultra for example and I love it.

But for those of you who want to save a little and still get a JAM UP laminated shaft - Fury is coming out in one month with the Fury Extreme 10 piece pie-spliced laminated shaft. At $150 it delivers all the performance at a lower price. - end of advertisement. ;-)
 
snipershot said:
im done. some guys dont het it, they only care about making sure they get paid no matter what. that's called capitalism. so stay here and pat yourselves on the back and talk about how good china isI don't remember talking about how awesome China is. John wasn't either, rather he was coming up with counterexamples to your assertion that China was a convoluted and backwards nation., and how bad the USA isAgain, if anything, you were the one talking crap about America. You're the one criticizing Americans because they are doing something you don't like. I haven't said anything bad about America, in fact, I embrace the freedom and capitalism that makes this country's cogs turn, and my previous posts have shown that.. go ahead, im not reading this trash anymore, it aint worth my time. Its like arguing with my son, he thinks he knows it all too, and seems incapable of admitting when he is wrong, just like some idiots on here. go ahead, have a drink, sit back, laugh at the bad situation we AMERICANS are inain't China's fault- again, you can't rape the willing comes to mind., and turn your nose up, cuz you are soooooo much better than the rest of us. no replies needed, cuz I ant reading this sh*t no more!
Click to expand...

I think he's gonna post again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top