Amateur events are killing the sport of pool
- Thread starter B_White
- Start date
There is a comparable tournament eligibility problem in uk style 8 ball pool playing countries as well. I think its just a symptom of a much wider ailment rather than a stand alone issue. Like yours their problem has its deepest of roots in pool being one of very few sports in which........
(a) Prize money is absolutely central to the existence of amateur tournaments (which in turn has its roots in the environments in which pool grew up and in the cold fact that few competent pool players would be willing to expend money to play in zero prize money tournaments purely to test who has the best ability of the entrants).
(b) There is far too vague a means by which to determine who is truly a professional and who is an amateur (which in turn has its roots partly in the utterly shambolic infrastructure within and between the various 'wannabee controlling bodies' nationally and internationally for each level of the sport).
(c) To products and brands the top 'professionals' are worth in marketing and advertising terms no more than the equivalent of a 1/8th page size advert in a down market local newspaper (which in turn has the knock-on effect of ensuring that a 'professional' truly earning a living solely from pool exhibitions, endorsement/advertising fees and tournament prize money is rarer than a bacon sandwich in a mosque).
These three fundamentals also obviously have a significant affect on each other.
It's no use dreaming of a future where pool is similar to golf if the sport and its players will never be willing to follow the same basic principles in respect of amateur and professional status and if even the most basic of national and international controlling bodies, accepted by all pool players as the definitive word on all things pool, are not established. Until those thing are adressed areas of conflict around who is or isn't eligible for tournaments are inevitable and will continue to rear their head every now and again.
All that tournament organisers can do in the meantime is basically put out each little fire as it flares up in the fairest way they consider. They will never please everyone.
(a) Prize money is absolutely central to the existence of amateur tournaments (which in turn has its roots in the environments in which pool grew up and in the cold fact that few competent pool players would be willing to expend money to play in zero prize money tournaments purely to test who has the best ability of the entrants).
(b) There is far too vague a means by which to determine who is truly a professional and who is an amateur (which in turn has its roots partly in the utterly shambolic infrastructure within and between the various 'wannabee controlling bodies' nationally and internationally for each level of the sport).
(c) To products and brands the top 'professionals' are worth in marketing and advertising terms no more than the equivalent of a 1/8th page size advert in a down market local newspaper (which in turn has the knock-on effect of ensuring that a 'professional' truly earning a living solely from pool exhibitions, endorsement/advertising fees and tournament prize money is rarer than a bacon sandwich in a mosque).
These three fundamentals also obviously have a significant affect on each other.
It's no use dreaming of a future where pool is similar to golf if the sport and its players will never be willing to follow the same basic principles in respect of amateur and professional status and if even the most basic of national and international controlling bodies, accepted by all pool players as the definitive word on all things pool, are not established. Until those thing are adressed areas of conflict around who is or isn't eligible for tournaments are inevitable and will continue to rear their head every now and again.
All that tournament organisers can do in the meantime is basically put out each little fire as it flares up in the fairest way they consider. They will never please everyone.
memiky, you are correct, but here in the us, the bca is almost impossible to sway into making realistic decisions about the playing aspects, and due to some strange ideas about rules that they have had in the past, there is no reason to believe that regional tours would abide by their decisions regarding what the true qualifications for being a pro are. As it is, even though the BCA is technically the ruling body for pool here, most tours and tourneys are run by texas express or pro express(etc) rules. As for reaching the level of golf in any aspect, that is only a pipe dream, at least in my lifetime. The only way that any meaningful decisions could really be made is if the BCA formed a committee of players to make decisions regarding any and all rules and level qualifications. This will most likely never happen, as their main function is to regulate the retail side of pool and billiards. Look at the board, and their business, and affiliations, and you can easily see why.
Yeah and that is BS to the max! Especially if the strong amatuer traveled a long distance to play paid for the trip food and whatever else only to be denied entry! Gotta love a game where they punish you for improving your skills or trying to make a buck, or just love to play.
Why should you be allowed to keep playing in these tournaments?
How often have you been at the top of these tournaments?
Do you really think you are going to improve playing people you clearly are better than?
How often have you been at the top of these tournaments?
Do you really think you are going to improve playing people you clearly are better than?
Last edited:
Listen i came from the school of experience where you take your beatings and take your beatings til you get tired and start to man up and learn from your beatings and start to improve and get tired of racking then give your opponents a good beating! I will continue to take my beatings like a man and learn from them. And when i get my oppurtunities i will hopefully give my opponent the beating they deserve. I would be shorting them if i did'nt. I guess in a perfect world everyone would win every time. But for me i'll take a loss from the better player and i'll take a win from the same.AngryPanda said:
Pool lover
Pool in general and Zim's Rack APT. I enjoy the following titles a league player, tournament player, spectator, league operator, tournament director. I am currently a chef and have been for over 25 years. I plan to make pool my "retirement". I see a lot of concerns both pro and con on these forums. I have only been here for a short time and have no cred to speak of, but I am reading and learning. I know who the good ones are and the ones that have other opinions. I want to grow the sport because it is a great game and you can tell a persons character by how they handle themselves on the table.
Currently there are two rooms that are available for league play. I am captain for three apa teams. I also run a 14.1 league in both rooms. Kevin Vidal is the league president and his site is http://www.14and1.com I would like to know more about your format and was wondering if you still have 9ball as well as 8ball. Thank you for your time.
Dwight
Zims Rack said:
Pool in general and Zim's Rack APT. I enjoy the following titles a league player, tournament player, spectator, league operator, tournament director. I am currently a chef and have been for over 25 years. I plan to make pool my "retirement". I see a lot of concerns both pro and con on these forums. I have only been here for a short time and have no cred to speak of, but I am reading and learning. I know who the good ones are and the ones that have other opinions. I want to grow the sport because it is a great game and you can tell a persons character by how they handle themselves on the table.
Currently there are two rooms that are available for league play. I am captain for three apa teams. I also run a 14.1 league in both rooms. Kevin Vidal is the league president and his site is http://www.14and1.com I would like to know more about your format and was wondering if you still have 9ball as well as 8ball. Thank you for your time.
Dwight
The Viking Tour started holding Amateur events with the inclusion of the Viking Cue Amateur Tour back in 2004. Over the years the tour has grown quicker than I ever expected which is why we are holding more and more Amateur only events.
For the room owners and sponsors its basically a matter of economics. The Amateur players spend more money at the event locations and buy more of our sponsors products which combined helps to support our sport.
Have no fear the Viking Tour OPEN events are not going away anytime soon but we will be increasing the amount of Amateur events we hold along with the amount of monies added to them.
I am happy to see that many of my competitors have found our combined Amateur and Open events to be a success. The Viking Tour has always strived to be a leader in our sport and we are happy to lead the followers.
For the players we hope you will enjoy our events and please remember to play with the original leading tour so we can continue to lead the regional tours in a forward direction to improve upon our sport.
In the coming months the Viking Tour will be making some very drastic changes that we hope will improve our sport and fulfill the hopes and dreams of our players and sponsors.
Mj
For the room owners and sponsors its basically a matter of economics. The Amateur players spend more money at the event locations and buy more of our sponsors products which combined helps to support our sport.
Have no fear the Viking Tour OPEN events are not going away anytime soon but we will be increasing the amount of Amateur events we hold along with the amount of monies added to them.
I am happy to see that many of my competitors have found our combined Amateur and Open events to be a success. The Viking Tour has always strived to be a leader in our sport and we are happy to lead the followers.
For the players we hope you will enjoy our events and please remember to play with the original leading tour so we can continue to lead the regional tours in a forward direction to improve upon our sport.
In the coming months the Viking Tour will be making some very drastic changes that we hope will improve our sport and fulfill the hopes and dreams of our players and sponsors.
Mj
The pool money pie has gotten so small that guys who play above shortstop speed are finding it difficult to survive on pool. This really cant be blamed on the amateur scene, its more an indication of the current econonic opportunities afforded to a United States pro pool player.
PR - New Viking "AMATEUR" Qualification Rules - Who Can Play - Who Can't Play !
July 7Th, 2008.
Viking Tour Press Release
Re: New Rules for Qualification & Disqualifications of players for the Viking Cue "AMATEUR" 9-Ball Tour
For Immediate Release
July, 7Th, 2008
As of July, 7Th 2008 the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour has restructured the eligibility/disqualification rules for all players wishing to participate in the events. The new rules structure has been changed to reflect our increase of events, regions and prize monies added to the amateur division of the Viking Tours.
Re: Disqualifications
You Can Not Play in the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour events if:
1. You have ever won any Open Tournament
2. You have placed in 2ND or 3rd place of any $10,000 added or more tournament.
3. You have 8 or more 2ND or 3rd place finishes in open regional tour events.
4. You have won 5 or more Amateur events on any other Amateur tours (combined) and not including the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour.
5. You have ever been considered a male professional player.
6. You have ever been in the top 16 of the WPBA or are currently in the top 32 of the WP BA.
7. If you have ever won any National title in either Amateur or Handicapped play in any tournaments or leagues.
8. You are a known Road Player or Top Player in your region.
If you fall into any of the above categories the Viking Cue "Open" 9-Ball Tour is the division for you. Additionally, who may and who may not play in the Amateur division is at the sole discretion of the director at the event or the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour office staff. If you have any questions regarding your eligibility please email the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour at vikingtour2@yahoo.com at least 14 days prior to the event you wish to compete in. If you do not fall into any of the above categories the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour is your ticket to success.
Re: Current Member Disqualifications
Current Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour players will be disqualified from participation in Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour events if at anytime they meet any of the any of the above stated rules for disqualifications. At that time your current Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour card status will be changed to an Open tour card for the remainder of your tour card time period.
Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour members will be eligible to participate in the Amateur division until:
1. You win 8 Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour events.
2. You win 4, $2,000 added or more Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour events
3. You place in the top 4 places of Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour events 16 times.
These rules are retroactive to the year 2004 when the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour began.
All players that have not met the disqualification rules for the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour are welcome to participate in our Amateur division events.
About the Viking Tours: The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour was founded in 1994 as an Ohio based tour. Over the years it has grown significantly to include many regions of the US. It is currently the largest and longest running Open regional billiards tour in the USA. The Viking Tours consist of three separate tours: The Viking Cue Open, Amateur and Junior 9-Ball Tours. Combined, the tours offer approximately 141 tournament events each tour season for players from beginning to professionals to compete in. Player and business associate members are offered many outstanding benefits that separate the Viking Tours from any other tour in the USA. These benefits include: Health-care insurance, Free entry fees for Ladies and Junior players, Discounts to Military Personnel, Senior Citizens and Pool League Players.
For more information about sponsoring, participating in or hosting Viking Tour events contact the tour at vikingtour2@yahoo.com or call 1-800-200-POOL .
Visit the Viking Tours web page at: http://www.viking9balltour.com
Amateur Event Info:
$50 Entry Fee
(Inc. $20 for Table & Reg. fee)
Double Elimination
World Standardized Rules
Amateurs Only
Added Prize Money Guaranteed
1 Day Event - $20/$30 Tour Card Fee (No Tour Card Fee at the Breaker's Event !)
Player Auction Starts at 1pm $10 Minimum Bid is Optional by Player
$10 DISCOUNT for All Pool League Players with current league ID
FREE Entry Fee + FREE Tour Card for Non-Pro Women
FREE Tour Card for SR Players (age 65+)
FREE Tour Card for all Active or Retired Military
Support The Awesome Sponsors Of The Viking Tour Events !
Just click on a link below to show your support for those that help support our sport.
Viking Cues
www.vikingcue.com/?source=vikingtour
Championship Cloth
www.champbilliards.com/?source=vikingtour
Brunswick Billiards
www.brunswickbilliards.com/?source=vikingtour
Aramith Balls
www.aramith.com/?source=vikingtour
Tiger Products
www.tigerproducts.com/?source=vikingtour
Sir Joseph Cue Gloves
www.sirjoseph.com/?source=vikingtour
Pool Player Billiard Accessories
www.cuecare.com/?source=vikingtour
AcCueShot
www.AcCueShot.com/?source=vikingtour
Quick-Clean Pool Table Cleaner
www.quick-clean.com/?source=vikingtour
Phoenix Billiards
www.phoenixbilliards.com/?source=vikingtour
The Monk Billiard Academy
www.themonk.com/?source=vikingtour
Pool & Billiard Magazine
www.poolmag.com/?source=vikingtour
Billiards Digest Magazine
www.billiardsdigest.com/?source=vikingtour
Professor Q Ball Magazine
www.professorqball.com/?source=vikingtour
AZBilliards
http://www.azbilliards.com/?source=vikingtour
Red Roof Inn Hotels -
USE CODE CP530832 for a 12% DISCOUNT
1-800-RED-ROOF
( www.redroof.com/?source=vikingtour )
Inside Pool Magazine
www.InsidePOOLmag.com/?source=vikingtour
Derby City Classic
www.derbycityclassic.com/?source=vikingtour
PCC Products - Q-Smooth, Q-Slick, Q-Glide and Q-Clean
Willard's Cue Tip Shapers
Silver Cup Chalk
www.silvercupchalk.net/?source=vikingtour
8-Ball Bible
www.8-ballbible.com/?source=vikingtour
Break N Run Sportswear
www.breaknrunsportswear.com/?source=vikingtour
Cue-Tech Pool School
www.poolschool.com/?source=vikingtour
PoolDawg
www.pooldawg.com/?source=vikingtour
TrueStroke
www.truestrokeonline.com/?source=vikingtour
Trader Ridge - Cue Rack
www.traderridge.com/?source=vikingtour
Bebob Publishing
www.bebobpublishing.com/?source=vikingtour
OB-1 Cue Shafts
www.obcues.com/?source=vikingtour
Cue Pen
www.cuepen.com/?source=vikingtour
DIAMONDBACK Billiard Products
www.killerstroke.com/?source=vikingtour
StrokeItWear
www.strokeitwear.com/?source=vikingtour
Turtle Tapper
www.rst2international.com/?source=vikingtour
Chameleon Rack
www.rst2international.com/?source=vikingtour
Tip Pik
http://www.billiardsexpress.com/?source=vikingtour
Twister Tip
http://www.twistertip.com/?source=vikingtour
Billiard Scoop
www.billiardscoop.com/?source=vikingtour
The Perfect Rack
www.myperfectrack.com/?source=vikingtour
Samm's Side Pocket
www.sammspocket.com/?source=vikingtour
oZone Billiards
www.ozonebilliards.com/?source=vikingtour
July 7Th, 2008.
Viking Tour Press Release
Re: New Rules for Qualification & Disqualifications of players for the Viking Cue "AMATEUR" 9-Ball Tour
For Immediate Release
July, 7Th, 2008
As of July, 7Th 2008 the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour has restructured the eligibility/disqualification rules for all players wishing to participate in the events. The new rules structure has been changed to reflect our increase of events, regions and prize monies added to the amateur division of the Viking Tours.
Re: Disqualifications
You Can Not Play in the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour events if:
1. You have ever won any Open Tournament
2. You have placed in 2ND or 3rd place of any $10,000 added or more tournament.
3. You have 8 or more 2ND or 3rd place finishes in open regional tour events.
4. You have won 5 or more Amateur events on any other Amateur tours (combined) and not including the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour.
5. You have ever been considered a male professional player.
6. You have ever been in the top 16 of the WPBA or are currently in the top 32 of the WP BA.
7. If you have ever won any National title in either Amateur or Handicapped play in any tournaments or leagues.
8. You are a known Road Player or Top Player in your region.
If you fall into any of the above categories the Viking Cue "Open" 9-Ball Tour is the division for you. Additionally, who may and who may not play in the Amateur division is at the sole discretion of the director at the event or the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour office staff. If you have any questions regarding your eligibility please email the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour at vikingtour2@yahoo.com at least 14 days prior to the event you wish to compete in. If you do not fall into any of the above categories the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour is your ticket to success.
Re: Current Member Disqualifications
Current Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour players will be disqualified from participation in Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour events if at anytime they meet any of the any of the above stated rules for disqualifications. At that time your current Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour card status will be changed to an Open tour card for the remainder of your tour card time period.
Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour members will be eligible to participate in the Amateur division until:
1. You win 8 Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour events.
2. You win 4, $2,000 added or more Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour events
3. You place in the top 4 places of Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour events 16 times.
These rules are retroactive to the year 2004 when the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour began.
All players that have not met the disqualification rules for the Viking Cue Amateur 9-Ball Tour are welcome to participate in our Amateur division events.
About the Viking Tours: The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour was founded in 1994 as an Ohio based tour. Over the years it has grown significantly to include many regions of the US. It is currently the largest and longest running Open regional billiards tour in the USA. The Viking Tours consist of three separate tours: The Viking Cue Open, Amateur and Junior 9-Ball Tours. Combined, the tours offer approximately 141 tournament events each tour season for players from beginning to professionals to compete in. Player and business associate members are offered many outstanding benefits that separate the Viking Tours from any other tour in the USA. These benefits include: Health-care insurance, Free entry fees for Ladies and Junior players, Discounts to Military Personnel, Senior Citizens and Pool League Players.
For more information about sponsoring, participating in or hosting Viking Tour events contact the tour at vikingtour2@yahoo.com or call 1-800-200-POOL .
Visit the Viking Tours web page at: http://www.viking9balltour.com
Amateur Event Info:
$50 Entry Fee
(Inc. $20 for Table & Reg. fee)
Double Elimination
World Standardized Rules
Amateurs Only
Added Prize Money Guaranteed
1 Day Event - $20/$30 Tour Card Fee (No Tour Card Fee at the Breaker's Event !)
Player Auction Starts at 1pm $10 Minimum Bid is Optional by Player
$10 DISCOUNT for All Pool League Players with current league ID
FREE Entry Fee + FREE Tour Card for Non-Pro Women
FREE Tour Card for SR Players (age 65+)
FREE Tour Card for all Active or Retired Military
Support The Awesome Sponsors Of The Viking Tour Events !
Just click on a link below to show your support for those that help support our sport.
Viking Cues
www.vikingcue.com/?source=vikingtour
Championship Cloth
www.champbilliards.com/?source=vikingtour
Brunswick Billiards
www.brunswickbilliards.com/?source=vikingtour
Aramith Balls
www.aramith.com/?source=vikingtour
Tiger Products
www.tigerproducts.com/?source=vikingtour
Sir Joseph Cue Gloves
www.sirjoseph.com/?source=vikingtour
Pool Player Billiard Accessories
www.cuecare.com/?source=vikingtour
AcCueShot
www.AcCueShot.com/?source=vikingtour
Quick-Clean Pool Table Cleaner
www.quick-clean.com/?source=vikingtour
Phoenix Billiards
www.phoenixbilliards.com/?source=vikingtour
The Monk Billiard Academy
www.themonk.com/?source=vikingtour
Pool & Billiard Magazine
www.poolmag.com/?source=vikingtour
Billiards Digest Magazine
www.billiardsdigest.com/?source=vikingtour
Professor Q Ball Magazine
www.professorqball.com/?source=vikingtour
AZBilliards
http://www.azbilliards.com/?source=vikingtour
Red Roof Inn Hotels -
USE CODE CP530832 for a 12% DISCOUNT
1-800-RED-ROOF
( www.redroof.com/?source=vikingtour )
Inside Pool Magazine
www.InsidePOOLmag.com/?source=vikingtour
Derby City Classic
www.derbycityclassic.com/?source=vikingtour
PCC Products - Q-Smooth, Q-Slick, Q-Glide and Q-Clean
Willard's Cue Tip Shapers
Silver Cup Chalk
www.silvercupchalk.net/?source=vikingtour
8-Ball Bible
www.8-ballbible.com/?source=vikingtour
Break N Run Sportswear
www.breaknrunsportswear.com/?source=vikingtour
Cue-Tech Pool School
www.poolschool.com/?source=vikingtour
PoolDawg
www.pooldawg.com/?source=vikingtour
TrueStroke
www.truestrokeonline.com/?source=vikingtour
Trader Ridge - Cue Rack
www.traderridge.com/?source=vikingtour
Bebob Publishing
www.bebobpublishing.com/?source=vikingtour
OB-1 Cue Shafts
www.obcues.com/?source=vikingtour
Cue Pen
www.cuepen.com/?source=vikingtour
DIAMONDBACK Billiard Products
www.killerstroke.com/?source=vikingtour
StrokeItWear
www.strokeitwear.com/?source=vikingtour
Turtle Tapper
www.rst2international.com/?source=vikingtour
Chameleon Rack
www.rst2international.com/?source=vikingtour
Tip Pik
http://www.billiardsexpress.com/?source=vikingtour
Twister Tip
http://www.twistertip.com/?source=vikingtour
Billiard Scoop
www.billiardscoop.com/?source=vikingtour
The Perfect Rack
www.myperfectrack.com/?source=vikingtour
Samm's Side Pocket
www.sammspocket.com/?source=vikingtour
oZone Billiards
www.ozonebilliards.com/?source=vikingtour
cincyman
Banned
well i hate to say it but....... as off the last event i played in the criteri was not this above. period ,, it was what people told you because i could not play in an amateur event because of what you "heard" .. I am not mad at ya Mike or trying to start anyting but the above post is false if thats the "criteria" you claimMikeJanis said: