Amber Chen beats Allison Fisher in Canada

[ChrisSjoblom]

I'd prefer a lag and then a one-rack playoff, which would duplicate the format once used at the International Challenge of Champions.

I think I would prefer a format of one or more additional games to break the tie. What I have in mind is a lag for break first. The lag winner breaks and if they do not break and run the winner of that game is the winner of the match. If the original breaker breaks and runs, the opponent then breaks and tries for their own run. If the opponent breaks and runs the first shooter breaks again. This continues until either a game broken by the first shooter is won by something other than a B&R or the second shooter fails to B&R after a B&R by the first shooter.

In practice this probably would take about the same time or maybe a bit longer than a spot shot shootout, and it would be much more representative of actual play.

 

[jtompilot]

Having a spot shot shootout for the title is worse than major league baseball’s starting with a runner at 2nd base in extra innings - it’s a complete disrespect of the game!

Technically, is it really a spot shot? The object ball is not on the spot
It does test your nerves of steel. As good as Allison is, she choked missing twice.

 

[King T]

I’m not saying it’s unfair, but it’s just a sad way to end any legitimate tournament. How about spot shots to determine who breaks followed by a 1 game sudden death? Spot shots to determine who wins is ridiculous, and I’m not saying this because Allison lost.

The announcers as well as the winning player herself weren’t even aware enough of the spot shot format to know when she had won.

This is just a different format, not every tournament will be played this way and as someone stated earlier the fans love it even if the fanatics dont. Tennis players play on grass, clay and coated cement and they have to make the adjustments and if the slip sets the go to a shoot out and yes most of the time it comes down to who has the best serve, just like a spot shot.

 

[WardS]

I’m not saying it’s unfair, but it’s just a sad way to end any legitimate tournament. How about spot shots to determine who breaks followed by a 1 game sudden death? Spot shots to determine who wins is ridiculous, and I’m not saying this because Allison lost.

The announcers as well as the winning player herself weren’t even aware enough of the spot shot format to know when she had

Technically, is it really a spot shot? The object ball is not on the spot
It does test your nerves of steel. As good as Allison is, she choked missing twice

This is just a different format, not every tournament will be played this way and as someone stated earlier the fans love it even if the fanatics dont. Tennis players play on grass, clay and coated cement and they have to make the adjustments and if the slip sets the go to a shoot out and yes most of the time it comes down to who has the best serve, just like a spot shot.

is this the Predator format they used it in other mens tournaments Vegas and Wisconsin if my memory is correct

 

[AtLarge]

... The worst part (and I watched part of this tournament in person) is that it's a waste of time. 80% of the shootout is time spent waiting for the referee...not that they are slow, that's not what I'm trying to say...Rack em up after 1 single shot gets old fast. ...

The length of time taken for the shootouts overall may well be less than you think, so I wouldn't really view that as a good argument against them.

For the first 3 men's US Pro Billiard Series events this year (Arizona, Wisconsin, Las Vegas), combined, the 67 streamed matches had 36 shootouts (54%). The average elapsed time (excluding the commercial breaks that preceded most of them) was about 6.6 minutes per shootout, or about 41 seconds per shot for the 345 shots taken in those shootouts. If you want to count the commercial break prior to most shootouts, add another 2 minutes.

And the 6.6 min. per shootout was the same as the 6.6 minutes per game (including commercial breaks) for the two races to 4 in each match.

 

[pt109]

 

[pt109]

Amber cries….Allison is the Grande Dame now
Robbie Capito became Amber’s translator, coach, and cheerleader.

 

[KUKABUKA]

The length of time taken for the shootouts overall may well be less than you think, so I wouldn't really view that as a good argument against them.

For the first 3 men's US Pro Billiard Series events this year (Arizona, Wisconsin, Las Vegas), combined, the 67 streamed matches had 36 shootouts (54%). The average elapsed time (excluding the commercial breaks that preceded most of them) was about 6.6 minutes per shootout, or about 41 seconds per shot for the 345 shots taken in those shootouts. If you want to count the commercial break prior to most shootouts, add another 2 minutes.

And the 6.6 min. per shootout was the same as the 6.6 minutes per game (including commercial breaks) for the two races to 4 in each match.

Well that is quite surprising, but I much much prefer the 30 second (
It's my opinion that it's boring and cheapens the pool playing experience.

Edit: the middle half of my post disappeared and I don't want to rewrite it, sorry. Summary: variety is more fun to watch than alternating identical shots with a "racking" in between, I like thinking about routes, shape, speed, which pocket for what etc.

 

[AtLarge]

... Edit: the middle half of my post disappeared and I don't want to rewrite it, sorry. Summary: variety is more fun to watch than alternating identical shots with a "racking" in between, I like thinking about routes, shape, speed, which pocket for what etc.

Now there is a valid point!

 

[Rocket354]

First, congratulations to Amber.

Not qualified to be a bonafide critic so I offer my suggestion which I intend to be constructive. They play two sets to four and if they each win a set then they have a spot shot contest and the winner of that is declared overall winner. Not positive, but the primary purpose is to speed up the game. Why not have a race to 5 or 7 which negates a tie and the winner is the winner. I believe that would be faster that the spot shot contest and in keeping with using all skills within each pool players arsenal. Of course, they could have the spot shot contest first which makes, arguably, as much sense.

I'm on board with anything, anything other than a shootout. Make it three sets, and if you're worried about time, make each set a race to 3. This isn't football (whichever version you choose, American or "everywhere else"). Ties in pool are easily broken in other ways, such as just playing pool. The only reason to have the shootout format is because the powers that be want shootouts, which means they think the fans want to see it. I guess it remains to be seen if they are right. If having shootouts increases viewership and exposure of the game somehow, then it's a good thing. Even if I (and many others of us here) hate it.

 

[telinoz]

First, congratulations to Amber.


I'm on board with anything, anything other than a shootout. Make it three sets, and if you're worried about time, make each set a race to 3. This isn't football (whichever version you choose, American or "everywhere else"). Ties in pool are easily broken in other ways, such as just playing pool. The only reason to have the shootout format is because the powers that be want shootouts, which means they think the fans want to see it. I guess it remains to be seen if they are right. If having shootouts increases viewership and exposure of the game somehow, then it's a good thing. Even if I (and many others of us here) hate it.

Good summary.
Easy solutions for pool.

Also interested on how they are confirming this brings in more viewers.

 

[mikemosconi]

quite emotional at the end there, but also a bit confusing it seemed. even the commentators didn't know when she had won. it's time the spot shot went away.

chen has a peculiar stroke, like a reverse follow through where she pulls back instead. weird but it seems to work for her. nice win.

Well, she certainly follows through sufficiently to create cue ball movement consistent with predictability of resulting cue ball position. What she does differently than most pro strokers is that her "warm up" strokes are very, very short, bc they are actually just used too hone in on her aim point on the OB. Her actual final shot stroke is fundamentally strong and very consistent from shot to shot.

She probably found through thousands of hours of experimentation and practice that, for her, the best way to find and lock in on the OB aim point was through initial very short strokes and once locked in, her well timed cue release follows a consistent pattern on every stroke. Complete opposite of a Bustamante stroke pattern where his cue can move so freely and fluidly during the warm - up stroke phase and he can still lock in on the OB aim point and also have a consistent well timed final cue release.

Goes to show that not one size fits all. However, just about every great pro exhibits four key points very consistently - no matter how it looks to the observer: 1. they align correctly to the true shot line. 2. they lock in their aim on the OB and then 3. Time their cue release at the moment their eye and mind confidently agree , and then 4. the cue moves straight through the cue ball to a degree that allows for the shooter to confidently feel the next position of the CB.

 

[ChrisinNC]

It does test your nerves of steel. As good as Allison is, she choked missing twice.

I agree - the Allison I knew 20 years ago could shoot that shot for an hour and not miss it twice. She missed 2/4.

If they are going to do a 4 shot shootout, how about at least have them each shoot 4 totally random and varied relatively difficult shots as opposed to 4 shots from the exact same location?

That would clearly be not only more interesting for the spectators but also more challenging and skillful for the players.

 

[Woodshaft]

I would like to see this shootout format reward the person with the most wins (in the two sets) an advantage in the shoot-out in of one mulligan.
So do the shootout as normal, but the set "total games winner" gets one "free-bee" if they miss a spot shot.
Allison was the best player in this tournament imo btw.

 

[jtompilot]

I would like to see this shootout format reward the person with the most wins (in the two sets) an advantage in the shoot-out in of one mulligan.
So do the shootout as normal, but the set "total games winner" gets one "free-bee" if they miss a spot shot.
Allison was the best player in this tournament imo btw.

The best player doesn't always win. If they did, I'd almost never win a tournament

 

[rjb1168]

Shootout just plain sucks! Not a way to decide a Champion.

 

[skogstokig]

Well, she certainly follows through sufficiently to create cue ball movement consistent with predictability of resulting cue ball position. What she does differently than most pro strokers is that her "warm up" strokes are very, very short, bc they are actually just used too hone in on her aim point on the OB. Her actual final shot stroke is fundamentally strong and very consistent from shot to shot.

She probably found through thousands of hours of experimentation and practice that, for her, the best way to find and lock in on the OB aim point was through initial very short strokes and once locked in, her well timed cue release follows a consistent pattern on every stroke. Complete opposite of a Bustamante stroke pattern where his cue can move so freely and fluidly during the warm - up stroke phase and he can still lock in on the OB aim point and also have a consistent well timed final cue release.

Goes to show that not one size fits all. However, just about every great pro exhibits four key points very consistently - no matter how it looks to the observer: 1. they align correctly to the true shot line. 2. they lock in their aim on the OB and then 3. Time their cue release at the moment their eye and mind confidently agree , and then 4. the cue moves straight through the cue ball to a degree that allows for the shooter to confidently feel the next position of the CB.

actually i rewatched a bit of the match, and i don't think it's a consistent stroke flaw, probably more nerves. look at the three shots from 39:40 onwards:

she has solid fundamentals overall.

 

[Zerksies]

Congratulations to Chen. I haven't watched pool in a bit, but Allison sure did look very sloppy to what i remember.

 

[BobTfromIL]

I can live with the shoot-out, my non playing wife even watched and seemed to like it. Biggest question I have is how did Kelly Fisher not win this thing.

 

[Chicken Feather]

I'd prefer a lag and then a one-rack playoff, which would duplicate the format once used at the International Challenge of Champions.

Congratulations to Chia Hua Chen!

It makes more sense to me to just play an odd number of games. (7,9,11) Or 3 sets. No to the spot shot shót.