Another CTE question

Neil said:
Exactly! That is why it so important to "empty your cup", and just follow the directions and observe.
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again I'm not telling him any aiming system..

He asked for initial eye orientation.... I answered him:

"Align yourself behind the CUE BALL and establish a virtual line between CUE BALL CENTER and OBJECT BALL CENTER"

is there an aiming in that? aiming is the process of establishing a connection via perception from Cueball to Object ball then to the pocket!.

do you really think that a pro one beginner would actually understand to go in an offset immediately?

The thing is, a pro One beginner must practice first in eyeing one line at a time.

again maybe you misunderstood, He asked for initial eye orientation.
maybe I should have answered establish CTE line first!. instead of both centers of CB and OB.

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It all boils down to Experience and understanding of a player.

sometimes for a beginner in order to establish CTEL and AIM Line is to first Align himself directly CB center to OB center then move sideways (left or right) and while doing so, slowly establish the CTE line and Aimline... once established he'll then realize that he not directly behind either line.
 
BeiberLvr explained this very well once with one example:

Stand behind the CB and point the index finger of your left hand at the left 1/4 of the CB and index finger of your right hand at the right edge of the CB.

Now, without moving your body and without moving your hands, move your head a little to the left and a little to the right, and when you move your head, when you look at your hands and fingers - they are not pointing at those spots on the CB any more, correct? There is only one place of the head, the starting spot, where you'll see the fingers of your hands pointing at those spots. The same principle translates at one spot for your vision where you'll see both lines in the same time.

Se7en6ix said:
again I'm not telling him any aiming system..

He asked for initial eye orientation.... I answered him:

"Align yourself behind the CUE BALL and establish a virtual line between CUE BALL CENTER and OBJECT BALL CENTER"

is there an aiming in that? aiming is the process of establishing a connection via perception from Cueball to Object ball then to the pocket!.

do you really think that a pro one beginner would actually understand to go in an offset immediately?

The thing is, a pro One beginner must practice first in eyeing one line at a time.

again maybe you misunderstood, He asked for initial eye orientation.
maybe I should have answered establish CTE line first!. instead of both centers of CB and OB.

-----------------------------------------
It all boils down to Experience and understanding of a player.

sometimes for a beginner in order to establish CTEL and AIM Line is to first Align himself directly CB center to OB center then move sideways (left or right) and while doing so, slowly establish the CTE line and Aimline... once established he'll then realize that he not directly behind either line.
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Eye position

Mirza, good post on finding the correct eye position.
Let me correct it. Good find of BeiberLvr's original post. You brought it back to where people that might have not seen it , can now view it.
BeiberLvr good information, thanks.
 
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JE54 said:
Mirza, good post on finding the correct eye position.
Let me correct it. Good find of BeiberLvr's original post. You brought it back to where people that might have not seen it , can now view it.
BeiberLvr good information, thanks.
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Sorry, JE54, what did you mean in the red above?
 
By the way, here's my original post on it

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=335389

I'd also like to add that seeing the correct perceptions are vital in having success with Pro One. If you have access to the old centennial balls, great. If not, try to get a set. As the striped balls are marked at the quarters (A and C), it really helps with finding the correct perceptions when you are practicing the reference shots.

You can do the manual pivots or Pro One sweeps perfectly, but unless you start with the correct perception, you won't make the shot.
 
BeiberLvr said:
By the way, here's my original post on it

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=335389

I'd also like to add that seeing the correct perceptions are vital in having success with Pro One. If you have access to the old centennial balls, great. If not, try to get a set. As the striped balls are marked at the quarters (A and C), it really helps with finding the correct perceptions when you are practicing the reference shots.

You can do the manual pivots or Pro One sweeps perfectly, but unless you start with the correct perception, you won't make the shot.
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Thanks, for that. Yes, I use Centennial balls...

- s.west
 
I guess I should have said edit instead of correct. At the time didn't think anything of it. Was just trying to give credit where it was due.
 
BeiberLvr said:
By the way, here's my original post on it

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=335389

I'd also like to add that seeing the correct perceptions are vital in having success with Pro One. If you have access to the old centennial balls, great. If not, try to get a set. As the striped balls are marked at the quarters (A and C), it really helps with finding the correct perceptions when you are practicing the reference shots.

You can do the manual pivots or Pro One sweeps perfectly, but unless you start with the correct perception, you won't make the shot.
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I got my DVDs yesterday and watched the entire first one before even going to the table. I thought I understood perfectly, but then I had the same confusion once at the table. Especially on where to stand.

I have no problem initially seeing the CTE line, but then I'm either right in front of the shot line or so close I couldn't possibly swing the cue. I must be doing something very wrong. It looks like Stan is sticking his head out to the side to get the perceptions, then swinging his body into the shot. Is that what I'm supposed to be doing?

I have older Centennial balls. Should I be setting the stripes up vertically like Stan did in the video? I thought that was just for illustrative purposes, but if that's how you're supposed to learn in the beginning then that's what I'll do. I am pretty good at seeing the quarters already, though.
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
I got my DVDs yesterday and watched the entire first one before even going to the table. I thought I understood perfectly, but then I had the same confusion once at the table. Especially on where to stand.

I have no problem initially seeing the CTE line, but then I'm either right in front of the shot line or so close I couldn't possibly swing the cue. I must be doing something very wrong. It looks like Stan is sticking his head out to the side to get the perceptions, then swinging his body into the shot. Is that what I'm supposed to be doing?

I have older Centennial balls. Should I be setting the stripes up vertically like Stan did in the video? I thought that was just for illustrative purposes, but if that's how you're supposed to learn in the beginning then that's what I'll do. I am pretty good at seeing the quarters already, though.
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The stripes should be vertical. Stan sticks his head out to the side, I believe only on cuts to the right. That's because it's the easiest way to pick up the perception on those shots (for a right handed player), and sweep naturally into your stance.

Take this diagram for example. Let's say the blue and red rectangles are spots you could stand. Now you can stand in the red area, and pick up the visuals just fine without any head movement. But imagine trying to get down into the shot from that position. It would be very awkward, and you would have to do a lot of shifting of your body. Which in turn means you could easily lose focus on CCB.

So instead, we stand in the blue area, which is slightly offset to the left. Now we can pick up the visuals for left cuts very easily, and right cuts only require a slight tilt of the head to get them. Regardless of the cut direction, it's now very easy and natural to sweep into your stance.

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SP, I think this is common when you first start with the system. Try setting up a few easy shots. Get down on the shot like you normally would, ready to shoot. Now, get up holding your feet in the same position. Now bend over slightly, as you've seen Stan do, and find your visual perception. You can now move straight in for the CTE manual pivot or move in with a Pro One sweep. Since you're already aligned with your feet in the right position, it should feel comfortable for you. If you do it this way for awhile, you'll start to get comfortable with the system. Fairly soon, you'll find it will become more and more natural for you.
 
Thanks, guys. I'm gonna watch the first DVD one more time, then try again at the table using the tips you both gave me.
 
It's going to take some getting used to the new perceptions.

Sloppy Pockets said:
Thanks, guys. I'm gonna watch the first DVD one more time, then try again at the table using the tips you both gave me.
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I know it must seem very wrong. You will need to watch the DVD's several times and keep going back to the table. You can even setup a make-shift table at home with just a CB/OB to practice the visuals/sweeps. If you are near Austin, I would be glad to meet with you and help out.
 
swest said:
First off, sorry for starting yet another thread with this kind of title and subject, but I didn't want to post my question over in Big C's CTE review (where this came up), at the risk of getting his thread relocated out of the Main forum (which it is probably in danger of anyway)...

Secondly, please don't make assumptions about my motives for asking my question. If you have an answer, great, if not, that's fine too.



Gerry's remarks are in relation to the video that was referenced in the opening post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpcDls9V3ds , which I watched.

These two things, the video, and Gerry's remarks above, have brought me back to a question I have wondered about before. To requote Gerry, "...the only objective points are the balls...". Q: Are you saying that the procedure, in CTE/Pro 1, for placing yourself on the shot line relies on no reference points from the table at all?
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Yes, the shots are all lined up with ZERO reference points other than the balls and direction of the cut. Obviously you are aware of the direction you are cutting towards.

I did this at Stan's house by myself on the ten foot table for an hour. Really forces you to be focused on the balls only and be sure your visual alignment is correct.
 
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