Another cue ID.

Chopdoc said:
That's surprising. As much as that joint is sort of a gimmick, it is iconic of old Viking cues.
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It sure is. I couldn't believe what I saw in a pool room several years ago. It was a guy playing with a cue that I would have sworn at a distance of ten feet was a Frank Paradise. I asked him if that's what he had, and he recounted that he had Dick Helmstetter built it in Washington, DC. It may have been the 1960s. He also knew that Gordon Hart worked with Dick at the time, and I took the shaft off, and noticed what would be known as the Super Joint later. I told him what he had and agreed that Gordon Hart played a hand in it. I'd like to know how many famous cuemakers had help from other cuemakers. We know most of the combinations, but probably not all.
 
WildWing said:
It sure is. I couldn't believe what I saw in a pool room several years ago. It was a guy playing with a cue that I would have sworn at a distance of ten feet was a Frank Paradise. I asked him if that's what he had, and he recounted that he had Dick Helmstetter built it in Washington, DC. It may have been the 1960s. He also knew that Gordon Hart worked with Dick at the time, and I took the shaft off, and noticed what would be known as the Super Joint later. I told him what he had and agreed that Gordon Hart played a hand in it. I'd like to know how many famous cuemakers had help from other cuemakers. We know most of the combinations, but probably not all.
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So much history potentially lost. Who knew who, what did they do together...all kinds of things.

And a cue like that? Wow. Take a picture!
 
Chopdoc said:
So much history potentially lost. Who knew who, what did they do together...all kinds of things.

And a cue like that? Wow. Take a picture!
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I wish I'd gotten pictures. The pool room closed a few years ago, and I have no contact. But it was a Helmstetter that looked like a Paradise.
 
Chopdoc said:
True. "Mass produced" has to be taken right. "Hand made" is another term that needs to be taken right. Rows of automated lathes can make dowels, but the final turnings are on lathes with human hands running them, even in the higher volume factories. I think the biggest differences are made with tolerances, quality of materials, and quality control. More about eyes and brains than hands. Nobody is really successfully making cues on wood lathes "by hand" anymore except in places like Pampanga. A cue maker needs to know how to program and troubleshoot CNC machines today. Guys like Abe Rich and George Balabushka with their wood lathes are gone and their tools and methods are mostly curiosity and history today.

I still call Rolex mass produced and fans don't like that. They didn't even make their own movements until fairly recently, they bought them. Then they bought the movement manufacturer. They are great watches, mainly utilitarian tools at their heart. Dressing them up does not change that but they are commonly blinged out both from the factory and by the aftermarket. If you have an older Rolex, you probably shouldn't send it for factory service, they likely will refuse it, but if they work on it they are likely to destroy the value by replacing things like dial or hands for cosmetic reasons.

So, anyway, yes, the Adam Japan shop is "low volume", but Adam became a multinational cue manufacturing giant, and that is what I was speaking of in general.
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there's a vid on YT of the plant in Japan. Its not real big and on the inside looks like the pics i've seen of other shops: kinda dirty/grungy but staffed with guys that really know their shit. the bulk of their stuff is sourced from the Universal/taican plant. found it:
 
garczar said:
there's a vid on YT of the plant in Japan. Its not real big and on the inside looks like the pics i've seen of other shops: kinda dirty/grungy but staffed with guys that really know their shit. the bulk of their stuff is sourced from the Universal/taican plant. found it:
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I love cue making videos. I have seen that one.

I was actually just watching one by an amateur that was unpacking her Cue Smith lathe. Yes, "her". How many women make cues or even just have a cue lathe and do repairs? I haven't seen many.

Human eyes, and brains. Tolerances, materials, quality control. Patience. Attention to detail. The quality of the final product relies on these things regardless of how many people or machines are involved, or what the volume of output of the product are. It is more difficult with more people involved to maintain the highest quality because the variables increase. More eyes can help spot problems but as the old saying goes, too many cooks spoil the soup.

One man alone, or with an apprentice, with low output and high attention to detail, can maintain incredibly high standards. Smaller shops with a few more people than that can do extremely well. To me, as soon as you go beyond the one man and apprentice, or two man cue maker team with a helper or two, you are entering "production". There are different ways to see that. As son as there is a flyer or catalog with model numbers you can order, it is production, even if low level. Again, there are different ways to see that. What is "mass" production? Well, that requires more than I have time for right now. Gotta go work.

And then, of course, there is the artistry of it. Another whole subject beyond the engineering and production.

I have been building cues in my head for a long time. Someday it could be real, I could turn something on a lathe. If so, people like you, WildWing, jayman, Michael Webb, JoeyInCali, SSDiver2112, and many more...and the videos, will contribute. And I know I will screw it up anyway. LOL!
 
Chopdoc said:
Watching a movie with my wife and searching revealed this:

rodcar

Thread 'Rare Helmstetter Model 86-10 - Excellent - Two Shafts!'

Cue is in excellent condition, comes with two original shafts, nice and straight. Line on one shaft is from rack needs to be cleaned up, not in stroke zone. see pictures. This one is an extreme beauty and great player. Joint protectors included. SOLD shipped.
86-10Butt.jpg

View attachment 221387

86-10Point.jpg

86-10Full.jpg
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I know i give you a hard time occasionally, but you always bring the goods 👍
 
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