Another Day in Paradise

T

tom mcgonagle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yesterday I went to World class Billiards in Peabody Mass. for the bi-weekly handicapped Nine-ball tournament. The handicaps range from 3-7. That's the number of games you have to win according to your handicap. I'm a seven.

My first match is against a four. After three games the score is 3-0 his favor. At this point I say, "I hope I can win at least a game." The next rack my opponent missed a four-ball shot, a fairly easy shot, completely, and I win the game.

The next game I break in the nine. At this point I say, "You're not going to hate me if I come back and win this match, are you?"

Momentum swings in my direction, after my opponent misses a six-ball, he should have made, in the seventh game, I come back from the grave and win.

My next match, I play a six, should be a five, against me, bad track record. He misses an eight-ball that would have made it hill-hill. I make a tough eight-ball and get out.

My next set is another four. He wins 4-1. It's not even that close. He murders me. I ask if he thinks his being a four, is fair? I tell him he should be proud enough to move himself up to a five. He tells me, "I'm a cry baby." I tell him,"I'm not a cry baby I'm just voicing the opinion of the better players in the tournament. Our handicaps keep moving up and the lesser players, like him, never move." Of course he doesn't agree.

I move over to the losers side and he plays another seven. his third in a row. He wins again, 4-1. He's in the hot seat. He takes second place money and leaves. He has a dinner engagement.

I get through the losers side and end up taking home $100. Of course I give the first guy, I beat, back his entry fee because I feel bad, I said something to him in the middle of our match.

I know things are never perfect but at what point is the better player suppose to get to, before they lose their cool, getting beat by a player that is a game, possibly two games, lower than their handicap should be.

Did I mention it's alternate break also. I broke two racks again this four and barely got two balls past the side pocket. If I check the racks they complain about that.

I just want people to know. I'm glad I play as well as I play. I know I don't have to play in handicapped tournaments. It's my choice. I just don't like the fact that the players of, So-called lesser ability have all the say. Why can't they take the beatings I took coming through the ranks?

Did I mention, "I've never been spotted in my life. I asked Allen Hopkins for the eight-ball one night in Elizabeth, New Jersey. He told me, "You play to good. I can't give you the eight." That was the extent of my asking for weight.

The life of a pool player. Isn't it GRAND.
 
tom mcgonagle said:
Yesterday I went to World class Billiards in Peabody Mass. for the bi-weekly handicapped Nine-ball tournament. The handicaps range from 3-7. That's the number of games you have to win according to your handicap. I'm a seven.

My first match is against a four. After three games the score is 3-0 his favor. At this point I say, "I hope I can win at least a game." The next rack my opponent missed a four-ball shot, a fairly easy shot, completely, and I win the game.

The next game I break in the nine. At this point I say, "You're not going to hate me if I come back and win this match, are you?"

Momentum swings in my direction, after my opponent misses a six-ball, he should have made, in the seventh game, I come back from the grave and win.

My next match, I play a six, should be a five, against me, bad track record. He misses an eight-ball that would have made it hill-hill. I make a tough eight-ball and get out.

My next set is another four. He wins 4-1. It's not even that close. He murders me. I ask if he thinks his being a four, is fair? I tell him he should be proud enough to move himself up to a five. He tells me, "I'm a cry baby." I tell him,"I'm not a cry baby I'm just voicing the opinion of the better players in the tournament. Our handicaps keep moving up and the lesser players, like him, never move." Of course he doesn't agree.

I move over to the losers side and he plays another seven. his third in a row. He wins again, 4-1. He's in the hot seat. He takes second place money and leaves. He has a dinner engagement.

I get through the losers side and end up taking home $100. Of course I give the first guy, I beat, back his entry fee because I feel bad, I said something to him in the middle of our match.

I know things are never perfect but at what point is the better player suppose to get to, before they lose their cool, getting beat by a player that is a game, possibly two games, lower than their handicap should be.

Did I mention it's alternate break also. I broke two racks again this four and barely got two balls past the side pocket. If I check the racks they complain about that.

I just want people to know. I'm glad I play as well as I play. I know I don't have to play in handicapped tournaments. It's my choice. I just don't like the fact that the players of, So-called lesser ability have all the say. Why can't they take the beatings I took coming through the ranks?

Did I mention, "I've never been spotted in my life. I asked Allen Hopkins for the eight-ball one night in Elizabeth, New Jersey. He told me, "You play to good. I can't give you the eight." That was the extent of my asking for weight.

The life of a pool player. Isn't it GRAND.
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Hi Tom, how are the boys up at World Class doing?

I don't play in too many handicapped events. The last one was a 1pocket tournament down in Gulfport. But you're right: based on my experience, even at that one event, it does seem that the handicapping generally favors the lesser players.

I'm not really even sure why that is, because "on paper" I really didn't have any complaint about my handicap. It wasn't until all the little things kicked in as factors -- that weren't on paper -- that made it too tough a mountain to climb. Things like I'd never played on those tables before, so the hometown guys got an edge as far as speed and banks. It was short races -- also a problem for the handicap to average out. In your case, certainly the alternate break skews the calculations. And then there is the issue of them having to go to a shorter number, as opposed to something that might be calibrated a little more precisely, like say giving them the last three, and/or adding or subtracting the break.

But, that's never going to fly. It's never really a problem getting the "open" speed players to participate in almost any event. It's the guys that are scared that the folks running the room and event always seem to need to entice, so they're almost always going to have to give the little guys an edge -- whether that edge is ever openly acknowledged or not. You decide you don't want to play, you're one guy, no loss. In fact you'd probably make the rest of the field happy.

Perhaps it's just matter of looking at it differently. IOW, instead of looking at it as a legitimate contest in which you have an even money chance, you need to look at it as a test, a challenge in which from the outset you acknowledge to yourself that you're taking the worst of it. I'm not saying it's right or that you should have to do this, but it may be the only way to come to peace with it: try and outrun the nuts. If you do, there can be a lot of satisfaction in that.

Lou Figueroa
 
I have only played in one handicapped tournament. I walked in the place and without anyone seeing me play I was deemed an "A" player. I don't have a problem with this since I've played against some top pros and always played to win and not to just "avoid losing".
My idea is this when a player is say rated a "C" getting the 7 in a race to 4. Why is there not an adjustment during the match that if the "C" player wins a game against the " A" player he is now getting the 8..if he loses the following game he gets the 7 again. This would keep things more even since the races are short. Just a thought. It would keep everyone on their toes.
 
Lou and League Shirts.

Thanks for voicing your opinions in this matter. I made it clear to the 4, "I wasn't taking my frustrations out on him. I'm just tired of being of seeing myself and some of the other players being, I called it discrimination, against.


Lou always great to hear from you. It's the same place. You see the people in there. I'm one of the younger ones at sixty years old. I call the place, "A holding tank for death."

I do get off sticking it to them, Lou. They'll never scare me off. I can't give them that SATISFACTION.
 
lfigueroa said:
try and outrun the nuts. If you do, there can be a lot of satisfaction in that.

Lou Figueroa
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That is it right there...in a nutshell.

I have played in many weekly handicapped events where sometimes I am the one outrunning the nuts...sometimes it is my opponent.

either way...I still show up and play.

However...I do like to test people on occaision to see what type of person they are....

If you say to them after a match...Wow..you play alot better than a (X)....The reply tells me what there "agenda" is....If they snap back with "your a cry baby" or "no way"....I know that they are just in it to steal....If they answer with..."I played over my head" or "Thanks...I have been practicing alot" or "I just got some lessons" I know that they are not just out for a steal..

If someone says I played a match beter than what my rating suggests I should have...I take it as a compliment.

It kind of amazes me when people don't think it is a compliment.
 
One thing I noticed playing in handicap tournaments is that some of the lesser players have good days and bad. That's what makes them their handicap. IMO if you say anything to the player, your just asking for trouble, even if they are under rated, do you think they'll admit it? The only recourse is to talk to the tournament director.

Rodney
 
Tom, from one of the "lesser" skilled players out there, I think that stinks. It's too bad the 4 you were playing isn't interested in getting better. Either that or he's interested in stealing-er, "hustling". (Forgot where I am, the hustle is revered.) And no matter which version he is, it's too bad the TD hasn't recognized it and adjusted him accordingly.

I'm not very good (yet). I got moved up in my APA league at the end of last session, justifiably, because I had a rather good run and beat some MUCH better players. I had no issue with being moved up. I've only won one match since, and lost to a number of lower ranked players. I check each week to see if they've lowered my level, and am happy to see that they haven't. I'm not unhappy with the Skill Level I've been raised to, rather I am unhappy with my poor play. That is the way it should be. Sadly, too many people are in it to win it, no matter what it takes.

I'm betting that you beat that guy the next several times you play him. No matter what the handicap. Pool tends to even out that way, methinks.
The better players really do tend to win more often than they lose. It's the consistency that seperates the better players from the rest.
 
One thing to remember is that in a correctly handicapped tournament everyone should lose 50% of their matches while playing their best. The matches should be close as well. No way a 4 should beat 7's by that margin unless his Adderall prescription just arrived.
 
I also miss the days of tournaments being straight up competition without preconceived notions of how players played based on handicaps. Players won mostly because they played well and you knew the only thing that was going to get handed to you was going to come by way of your opponents playing error or their bad roll. Anything else that came your way was either by way of your own skill or fortunate roll. Players who got cut out knew they needed to raise their game for the next time to get through to the final rounds and not play a system of ever lowering spots.

Even with what I said above, I do appreciate handicapped tournaments as they are a great way of challenging yourself further. There's nothing like having to give up games and/or ball spots to make you dig deeper if you don't think you're ready for participating in top level competition. The most challenging or I mean annoying part in playing handicapped tournaments isn't the game but more in dealing with the attitude of players who don't want to rise to the occasion and just want to ride on what a spot gives them. The people that want to just get more all the time and just learn to play the spot they have instead of how to play the game well. They want to argue about what spot you should have and want to either head down a spot or get you raised a spot to in their perception fix things. I usually put myself in the hardest situation to win to feel better about the whole thing and go in at whatever the highest spot is. That way I am always giving weight to challenge myself which pretty much puts an end to spot whiners and when I play the best players there I'm even up like I like to play. The only down part is the teasing that may come from not playing up to par with the top spot but I can handle that because I know what the ultimate goal is. That is to win on a personal and tournament level in a positive way.
 
Most 7's usually want some cheese with their wine. I played three years in BCA mostly and APA a couple of sesions. I, too, never could come to a terms with league sandbaggers. I finally just played wide open. It pissed people off, too. Just try and score as many 7-0s as possible as let the other stuff just "fall away." I finally gave up on league play and as another responder mentioned most of the players were happy and the others continued on their merry way. Good luck!
 
If the tournament is open and the same few players win every week, it is not too long before there are no more tournaments because people don’t want to play when they don’t have a chance. Most players are looking to get better and to win on occasion. "If I have no chance why would I want to play?" I heard more often than I wanted so I changed the format.

When I had weekly tournaments at my home with 7- 8 players I made sure the lower players had an advantage and at times an APA 2 won the money. I set it up so the lower handicap could remove their balls from the table when it was to their advantage and before their turn at the table. This requires the better play to basically break the clusters and or move balls. This is very challenging for the better player and requires them to play at speed if they are going to win and yet the lower handicap has a chance to win.

Most importantly, people came back again and again. After the tournament the “A” players could gamble among themselves.

I guess it depends on why you want to have a tournament.

BTW the top players also won on occasion but they had to be at the top of their game.
 
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Heck we had some 50 year old female APA 2s putting up their ten bucks every week and giggling when they had an “A” player on the ropes. A great time was had by all, even the better players who had to play their best to win. So do you want a challenge or are you just there to make money. If it is the money you are after you are in wrong house. If you are looking for a real challenge then well handicapped tournaments are good for everyone, including the sport itself.
 
A long belated apology....

tom mcgonagle said:
Yesterday I went to World class Billiards in Peabody Mass. for the bi-weekly handicapped Nine-ball tournament. The handicaps range from 3-7. That's the number of games you have to win according to your handicap. I'm a seven.

My first match is against a four. After three games the score is 3-0 his favor. At this point I say, "I hope I can win at least a game." The next rack my opponent missed a four-ball shot, a fairly easy shot, completely, and I win the game.

The next game I break in the nine. At this point I say, "You're not going to hate me if I come back and win this match, are you?"

Momentum swings in my direction, after my opponent misses a six-ball, he should have made, in the seventh game, I come back from the grave and win.

My next match, I play a six, should be a five, against me, bad track record. He misses an eight-ball that would have made it hill-hill. I make a tough eight-ball and get out.

My next set is another four. He wins 4-1. It's not even that close. He murders me. I ask if he thinks his being a four, is fair? I tell him he should be proud enough to move himself up to a five. He tells me, "I'm a cry baby." I tell him,"I'm not a cry baby I'm just voicing the opinion of the better players in the tournament. Our handicaps keep moving up and the lesser players, like him, never move." Of course he doesn't agree.

I move over to the losers side and he plays another seven. his third in a row. He wins again, 4-1. He's in the hot seat. He takes second place money and leaves. He has a dinner engagement.

I get through the losers side and end up taking home $100. Of course I give the first guy, I beat, back his entry fee because I feel bad, I said something to him in the middle of our match.

I know things are never perfect but at what point is the better player suppose to get to, before they lose their cool, getting beat by a player that is a game, possibly two games, lower than their handicap should be.

Did I mention it's alternate break also. I broke two racks again this four and barely got two balls past the side pocket. If I check the racks they complain about that.

I just want people to know. I'm glad I play as well as I play. I know I don't have to play in handicapped tournaments. It's my choice. I just don't like the fact that the players of, So-called lesser ability have all the say. Why can't they take the beatings I took coming through the ranks?

Did I mention, "I've never been spotted in my life. I asked Allen Hopkins for the eight-ball one night in Elizabeth, New Jersey. He told me, "You play to good. I can't give you the eight." That was the extent of my asking for weight.

The life of a pool player. Isn't it GRAND.
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Hey Tom,

My name is Jay. Years ago I was up in World Class Billiards while on a business trip and met a fellow who I allowed to take me to Country Club Billiards in Chelmsford, I believe, and hustle me into the tournament at a "C". I was certainly not a "C", but probably closer to an "A" at the time. Although it went against my principals, I went along and my first or second match I played you and layed down a couple of killer safes and shots, while going on to win the match ,with you muttering something along the lines ,that I was no "C" player. You were right and I apologize.

I went on to the semis and won upon which time the owner/manger informed me that he was raising me to a "B" for the final.

Billy the kid beat me in the finals! Justice prevails.

Never again Tom!! Take care and keep on playing well.
 
Another day in Paradise

I never cared when they give me the highest rating in a new place because they don't know how I play.
I never mind if some 4 beats my brains out by lucking in a few balls at the right times .
I do mind when I play a guy I have played before and he beat me with the 7 and now I am spotting him.
That is the TD and the other players fault imo especially if it happens more than once.
There are some real cowards parading around, I couldn't look in the mirror if it was me, but if they can , shame on them.
Some people justify it and think they are "huslin", nah, you're just a coward with an excuse.
 
Well Jay I'm glad you changed your ways. It's easy to get caught up in that situation. You weren't the only one that did it.

It's never going to be perfect when it comes to handicapped events. I just like it to be fairly close to the right handicap. I was told Saturday that I should welcome the challenge because it will make me perform at my best.

That's fine. I can live with that.

I just don't think other players should be able to take four racks off and still have a chance to beat me.

I kicked at several misses my opponents had made that day. That's a lot of fun.

When Micheal Jordan was terrorizing the NBA and Nolan Ryan was throwing over 100mph they didn't handicap them in any way.

It's difficult to perform at your best every match you play in a tournament. I just don't like the fact that I'm expected to. Why can't the lesser players step up thier game a little?

I still love the game and everyone that plays it. I wish we were all open players.

__________________________________

http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
 
Just to confirm...

That was a one time only occurance. That night was totally out of character for me. Throughout my life I've played tough action and and quite often been the spotter and not the spottee. Granted, I pick my games and don't step up much, one is allowed that option.

Take care
 
Back about 15 years ago I was playing a lot but I was not that great, maybe a low c player. I was traveling a lot for my job and would usually find a room to shoot in wherever I was working. Sometimes if I was in the area long enough I would catch a tournament, which was good for me because I liked the competition but was too shy to ask people to play. When the room owner/operator would ask me how I played, I would tell them to just put me at the highest skill level possible because I wasn't there to steal anyones money. I just wanted to play.

I was at a room in Fall River, Ma. for a tourney one night and the guy behind the counter asked me the usual question and I gave him the usual answer. Well, he puts me with one of his regular to get a feel of how I play. I couldn't make 3 balls in a row! I tell him I usually play better than that and the skill level was set. We start playing the tourney and I win my first match with nothing too fabulous but then my next few matches I can't lose! I see that the regulars are getting really restless. I start trying to miss shots and not make it look too obvious and I am still making balls. One of those nights where you just can't do anything wrong. I end up giving the final away just to not p#@s anyone off or get my fingers broke. At that point, the guy behind the counter tells me not to come back to play in his tourneys anymore.:eek:

Sorry about the rambling but I guess my point is, peeps should be proud to be a higher level, it will only make them better in the long run.:wink:
 
tom mcgonagle said:
... My next set is another four. He wins 4-1. It's not even that close. He murders me. I ask if he thinks his being a four, is fair? I tell him he should be proud enough to move himself up to a five. He tells me, "I'm a cry baby." I tell him,"I'm not a cry baby I'm just voicing the opinion of the better players in the tournament. Our handicaps keep moving up and the lesser players, like him, never move." Of course he doesn't agree. ...
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Tom, I don't think you picked the right time for that discussion.
 
You're right ATLarge. I should have picked a better time and place but I wanted the rest of the people in the room, including the director, to hear my point of view. Sometimes, The voice of the better players needs to be heard.

___________________________________

http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
 
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